Tinsley servicing shed

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi All

 

The research continues. A couple of request.

 

1. Anyone know the identites of the breakdown train coaches the would have been at Tinsley when the depot opened?

 

 

2. For the bus on the bridge, photos show buses went over Wood Lane bridge. Would one of the five Sheffield Transport's Leyland PD2s with Eastern Coach Works bodies be suitable? http://www.flickr.com/photos/lenmidgham/5270648185/ For a model I was thinking of using a ECW highbridge bodied KSW with a Leyland/BMMO tin front.

2a. What bus route crossed Tinsley Yard?

[phixer64]

Hi Clive going to follow this with great interest. Going to point you to watch this video

Its a bit long, but it might help you with some details, and trackwork.

[Fat Controller]

Hi All

 

The research continues. A couple of request.

 

1. Anyone know the identites of the breakdown train coaches the would have been at Tinsley when the depot opened?

 

 

2. For the bus on the bridge, photos show buses went over Wood Lane bridge. Would one of the five Sheffield Transport's Leyland PD2s with Eastern Coach Works bodies be suitable? http://www.flickr.com/photos/lenmidgham/5270648185/ For a model I was thinking of using a ECW highbridge bodied KSW with a Leyland/BMMO tin front.

2a. What bus route crossed Tinsley Yard?

Clive, 

Might the buses be just going to Tinsley Yard/ Depot? My recollection is of the service bus dropping you off at Brinsworth Three Magpies, whence you walked across the bridge, which I'm sure went only to the diesel depot. Looking at Google Maps, the roads to the western side of the yard look to be all new, as does any development there.

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Phixer

 

Cheers for the link. Some useful bits and bobs.

 

Hi Brian

 

Thanks for the information on the buses to Tinsley, I never went there (so why am I modelling it????). In the collection of photos I have amassed I do have some with buses going over the bridge, all in South Yorkshire PTE livery not Sheffield Transport, hence my query.

 

Any how this research malarkey doesn't 'arf throw up some oddities. On the BR plan I have it shows a siding at the western end of the depot and the south bypass line connecting at the western end with the line to the shed building via a three way point. On a 1970s 1/2500 OS map this siding no longer exist, the siding and the bypass line are connected. Now I thought dear old OS have got it wrong. The few photos that show the west end of the depot do not show the siding, so are OS right.

 

Searching through my photos I found one in Michael Rhodes book "British Marshalling Yards" of the then new servicing depot with siding and connection as on my BR drawing. At some point in time the south line and the siding were connected and the point leading to the shed was replaced with a normal one doing away with the three way point.

 

Edited February 15, 2014 by Clive Mortimore

[caradoc]

The Ordnance Survey 1974 1:50000 map shows nothing really south of Tinsley Yard, just steelworks sidings and Tinsley Park golf course, so I would agree that the Wood Lane bridge over the yard was just for BR access. Ironically, now that there is a road south of the yard, Wood Lane is (IIRC from my last, sad, visit in 2009) blocked off and cannot be used as a through route for vehicles. 

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Caradoc

 

Looks like no bus on the bridge.....how can  call myself a real railway modeller

 

I was looking forward to making a Sheffield PD2 from a KSW. For those who are unaware of the history of Sheffield's buses, in the 1960s there were three fleets, "A" fleet owned by Sheffield corporation, "B" fleet jointly owned by the corporation and British Railways and "C" fleet owned by BR. As B and C fleets were owned by BR it meant they could buy buses from the nationalised companies i.e. Bristol Buses and Eastern Coach Works. Sheffield did not buy any Bristols but they had a small number of Leyland PD2s and Leopards bodied by ECW which made them an extremely rare combination.

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

 

 

 

 

Last time I was there in 2010 Wood Lane was a bus only gate through to the new road at the bottom end, (those nice policemen who happened to be there let me off, what sign Constable!).

It was never a bus route per se in the early days as it was a dead end only going to the depot, if you exclude the iron gates into the scrubland.

Although, if the BR crewbus which used to ferry drivers to Rotherwood was unavailable, a single deck STD or RCT bus has been known to be hired in, one of Greenland Road or Greasbro' Roads finest, but I never saw a decker.

 

Mike.

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi

 

Interesting timing as one of the plans in the free Model Rail booklet this month is of the servicing shed at Tinsley.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

Hi Paul

 

I have been to Smifffs today and brought a copy. I have a funny feeling Ben Jones may not have done as much research as I have so far

 

The concept is very well sold by him. I think a couple more photos of what he was writing about might have helped. I never get bored of the Les Nixon photo with the 8F trundling past, and it is quite a large reproduction showing a lot of details.

 

I hope there is someone out there in model land who will have ago at building a depot based on Ben's plan.

 

He mentions the types of locomotives that could be found at Tinsely when it opened. He has used a 1965 allocation listing which is great for knowing the home locos. To add to Ben's list as far as I can make out there would be Peaks from the LMR, including what became the 44s, and sometimes 46s from the NER. English Electric type 4s were not native but did venture from the LMR and NER to Tinsley. Toton and other MR sheds still had BRCW type 2s and these hauled trains to Tinsley, in the Model Rail booklet it looks like a 27 outside the breakdown crane shed. As well as home based English Electric Type 1s, BR type 2s, Brush 2s, English Electric Type 3s and Brush 4s, classmates from other parts of the system would use the servicing shed before being packed off home. The Claytons were the only mainline class that didn't see visitations from their cousins from other regions. 

 

Photos show 8Fs and WD 2-8-0s at Tinsley, did any of the other classes still around in numbers in 1966 visit Tinsley, like Black Fives, B1s, K1s or 9Fs?

 

Thanks Mike for the photos, love the detailed shot of the lighting tower top. Also thanks about the bus information, it is nice to have local knowledge to help out.

[Enterprisingwestern]

More pics of the rest of the lighting towers if you wish?

 

Mike.

[Clive Mortimore]

More pics of the rest of the lighting towers if you wish?

 

Mike.

Hi Mike

 

Yes please, thank you.

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Drop me your email if you want the hi res originals Clive.

 

Mike.

[Clive Mortimore]

Cheers Mike,

 

Now to build them. As planned with Brisbane Road (yes I am still working on it) any lighting out doors will be switched off as I only intend to run the layout in (model time) daylight hours. After making the lighting towers for Hanging Hill working as well as the other lights I realised that like street lights they would only be on at night and I did try running the layout in the dark using the layouts model lights..........I kept bumping into things in the garage and couldn't really see what I was doing.

 

Photo taken by Andy Jupe

[Clive Mortimore]

Going back to the layout idea in the booklet free with Model Rail , Ben Jones does label it as the "Build the Ultimate Depot Layout", Not too sure I could label my proposed version "The Ultimate Depot Layout" but hopefully it will be a good un. :locomotive:

Edited February 16, 2014 by Clive Mortimore

[Removed a/c]

Looking forward to following along with this build. 

[Andrew P]

The lights look good Clive, I have often considered working lights on my layouts but as you say; daylight working precludes them being on.

 

I recently saw an Exhibition Layout that was lit up like a Christmas Tree, BUT so was the fascia above the layout.

 

Looking forward to some more pics please.

All the best with the build, :locomotive:

Andy

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi All

 

The research continues. A couple of request.

 

1. Anyone know the identites of the breakdown train coaches the would have been at Tinsley when the depot opened?

 

 

Hi All

 

I have the identies of two of the coaches used at Tinsley in the early 1980s. ADE 320912 (E9012E), mess and riding coach. This was an ex LNER diagram 10C RKF. Quite a few of these were drafted into breakdown train service after they were withdrawn in the early 1960s. Photos taken when the depot was new do show what appears to be a LNER restaurant coach on the breakdown crane siding. This was possibly allocated to Tinsley when it opened. Hanging Hill has a diagram 10 RKF, so a quick wheel swap

 

The other van is the tool van DB975249 (M32998), an ex LMS six wheeled gangwayed brake van (stove R). I have a photo showing with the crane in the 1970s. I am not sure this would have been with the train in the 1960s as these vans were still in service then. Jenkinson and Essery give the first withdrawal date form the batch as 1966.

 

If the ex LMS Stove R is too late for my model, what was the tool van in the 1960s?

 

Wild Boar Models are going to produce a 4mm Ramsones and Rapier 45 ton crane, like Tinsley's 331102 http://www.wildboarmodels.co.uk/products.php I am not too sure about buying a kit or building my own?

[Clive Mortimore]

An early question about Tinsley is in regard of a signal on the line taken by the Woodhead trains into the repection sidings. In this photo by Russell Saxton the EM 1 is appraoching a signal with only one aspect. There is a shunt signal below it. http://www.flickr.com/photos/33751709@N05/4916611181/in/pool-tinsleyyard/ On the signal diagram that appeared in Rail Express February 2004 it shows the signal to only have a red aspect, with the shunt signal below it. Would this have always shown red, and any incoming trains halt until given line clear indcation by the shunt signal? The signal number was TY246.

I am a pillock at times. I forgot I had downloaded the signal plan for Tinsley (1965) form the Signalling Record Society web site http://www.s-r-s.org.uk/index.php This gives details of the signals at Tinsley Yard Signal Box. It confirms it is a single aspect with a subsidairy signal. It signalled into reception sidings 6 to 11, the electricified lines.

 

It also has marked on it the loco stop boards and where the telephones where located. Anyone any idea what was written on the loco stop boards?

[Enterprisingwestern]

I am a pillock at times. I forgot I had downloaded the signal plan for Tinsley (1965) form the Signalling Record Society web site http://www.s-r-s.org.uk/index.php This gives details of the signals at Tinsley Yard Signal Box. It confirms it is a single aspect with a subsidairy signal. It signalled into reception sidings 6 to 11, the electricified lines.

 

It also has marked on it the loco stop boards and where the telephones where located. Anyone any idea what was written on the loco stop boards?

 

Strained memory time.

Stop and await instructions?

 

Mike.

[Clive Mortimore]

Strained memory time.

Stop and await instructions?

 

Mike.

Hi Mike

 

That is great, thank you.

[Waveydavey]

Strained memory time.

Stop and await instructions?

 

Mike.

Or possibly 'Stop and Telephone' or 'Stop and Proceed if Line Clear'

 

The signal you've been talking about Clive would have to be a permanent red with a sub as there could possibly be traffic on the reception road the train would be arriving onto. A main aspect indicates the line is clear to the next signal but a sub indicates you can proceed but be prepared to stop short of any obstruction. The sub would also be approach lit (never say that to a railway inspector though) so as to control the speed of the trains arrival onto the receptions. The thinking behind this is that if you bring a train almost to a stand before letting it onto a siding it's unlikely to come charging into the yard at 25mph and coming off on the pointwork or running into the back of anything.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Cheers

 

David

[Redford73]

_{Hi Clive (and others),}

 

_{I have almost finished my layout of part of Tinsley's main shed entitled 'Tinsley TMD'.  There is a blog under my name with a few pics and I started a thread on it a year or so ago.}

 

_{Having seen some of your work and posts on this and other sites I suspect your layout will be far more advanced than mine but you might want to look at my effort.  I have only modelled half the depot owing to space restrictions as it is in my loft.}

 

_{A useful book you may like to obtain is 'Life and Times of a Railway Fitter' by Phil Hodgkiss which has numerous photos and a reprint of the plan of the yard and the Rail Express article from (93 I think).}

 

_{Who made the depot yard light in the pic above - it is excellent.}

 

   

[Clive Mortimore]

_{Hi Clive (and others),}

 

_{I have almost finished my layout of part of Tinsley's main shed entitled 'Tinsley TMD'.  There is a blog under my name with a few pics and I started a thread on it a year or so ago.}

 

_{Having seen some of your work and posts on this and other sites I suspect your layout will be far more advanced than mine but you might want to look at my effort.  I have only modelled half the depot owing to space restrictions as it is in my loft.}

 

_{A useful book you may like to obtain is 'Life and Times of a Railway Fitter' by Phil Hodgkiss which has numerous photos and a reprint of the plan of the yard and the Rail Express article from (93 I think).}

 

_{Who made the depot yard light in the pic above - it is excellent.}

 

   

Hi Redford

 

I had seen your layout on here and was impressed. When doing a google image search for Tinsley TMD photos of your model depot are some of the first to be viewed, well done as there must be loads of people looking at them to get up high in google. When viewing your photos you know where it is modelled on.

 

I will have look out for the Phil Hodgkiss book.

 

As for the light, it is one of three I made for Hanging Hill, two of them are broken and need repairing. I am trying to work out how to bulid them so when I reach over the layout and swing my arm around I can knock them over without Karate chopping them in half.

 

Will my model be more advanced than yours, I don't know. To me the statifaction and enjoyment of building and running a layout comes first not what it looks like compared to someone elses. If you get fun from your layout then it is advanced as anyones.

[Clive Mortimore]

Or possibly 'Stop and Telephone' or 'Stop and Proceed if Line Clear'

 

The signal you've been talking about Clive would have to be a permanent red with a sub as there could possibly be traffic on the reception road the train would be arriving onto. A main aspect indicates the line is clear to the next signal but a sub indicates you can proceed but be prepared to stop short of any obstruction. The sub would also be approach lit (never say that to a railway inspector though) so as to control the speed of the trains arrival onto the receptions. The thinking behind this is that if you bring a train almost to a stand before letting it onto a siding it's unlikely to come charging into the yard at 25mph and coming off on the pointwork or running into the back of anything.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Cheers

 

David

Thanks David

 

I have looked hard at the photos I have found and cannot see any loco boards as yet, let alone what was written on them.

[class"66"]

Very interesting read!! nice photos to,wil follow this..

[hmrspaul]

Clive

 

Sorry, missed this topic completely. I (and others) took a lot of photos in Tinsley yard in the 1980s when the Asst. Yard Master joined our group! A long but worthwhile drive from Harpenden in the day. Some of my photos come up with this search http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/?q=tinsley but there are a lot more as I didn't used to put the place in the file names (remember the day when file names were very short - 8 characters?). The TMD was off limits in those days, whereas when we turned up in 1993 the new railway was really welcoming http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/smbp444 and other photos were taken that day of the internal user lowmac etc.

 

Paul Bartlett