Hornby's Nat Southworth responds to RMweb members' Q&A.

[M.Riddell]

Not quite true there are at least 42 Humbrol products that are showing as not in stock. A lot of which are basic colours.

 

Maybe so, but I'm in the unfortunate position of only having a Hobbycraft as my "walk in" source. There hasn't been a model shop within Aberdeen's city bounderies since Modelzone shut down, so if I can't get what I need there, I buy online instead, normally from several different sources if necessary. A pretty poor showing for a city with a population of 227,000+, IMHO.

 

However, I won't use Humbrol's paint brushes. They're absolutely rubbish! Daler-Rowney for me.

 

That's what I have suggested elsewhere, but Simon Kohler in his 'Simon Says' columns says that Hornby are committed to high quality model railway models, as well as saying we should be careful what we wish for, and that prices will be higher....

 

So far we have only had interminable delays, some small bright spots (?) like small numbers of weathered A3s, or Exeters...  but Nat's replies were for me no reassurance at all that Hornby will get better at profitable model train production. Good at corporate-speak, 'leveraging our opportunities', yes.   

 

Actually, to expand on the 'low expectations', I expect Hornby model railways to drift somewhat with REF and CHL and other factories not delivering fully, then the Chinese New Year, then by mid-year a lot of corporate double-speak about 'performance', 'delivery' et al.

 

edit; I WOULD like to be proven wrong with floods of new high quality models arriving 700s, D16s, variations on older tooling/paint and so on, generating sufficient margin to reduce the overdraft.

 

Ah, but Simon is biased in his own way.    He's also a consultant these days rather than an actual employee, so there will be things he won't be privy to. I pretty much agree with your assesment of what's likely to happen if things don't improve.

 

I've highlighted on another (plastic kit modelling) forum that Hornby's difficulties have an impact on all it's brands, they don't operate in isolation. The main feeling I got from the replies could be broken into two strands:

 

1. If Hornby go down, it'll be shame, but the plastic kit modelling community will survive just as well without them. After all, there are dozens of manufacturers.

 

2. Hornby should sell off the "toy train" part of the business and concentrate on the rest of it's brands if it wants to survive.

 

The latter is a selfish view, but there are those who feel it should be the other way round. Hornby should go back to what it was, a model railway producer. However, under current circumstance, if that had been the case, Hornby would be gone or taken over by now. So it's just as well that the Group has several strings to it's bow and I can't see them going back to being a pure model railway company in the same way as Bachmann is.

 

As things are now, they literally can't afford to.

 

Mike.

[Ronny]

Late to the party but I would like to express my opinion for what it's worth:

 

I'm used to the kind of language Nat used and therefore it's no problem for me. I thought he was fairly direct and tried to answer the questions.

 

To me he clearly says (with my comments in parenthesis):

 

1. Yes we plan to rework old models to new standards (please can we have a new Lord of the Isles & Terrier)

2. Yes the catalogs are obsolete when the model finally arrives but our website should be accurate (it isn't always and it does matter, so please do better)

3. Yes, more N

4a. Our website should have the latest info on delivery dates (it doesn't always and it does matter, so please do better)

4b. We monitor RMWEB and will continue engage directly with it (although he may have changed his mind on that after reading this thread)

5. Supply chain is a huge problem for us as well as Bachmann. It's slowly getting better and we are continuing to invest in those improvements.

6a. Retailers shift the majority of our sales and are very important to us and we will show this by improving our delivery of quality of models to them.

6b. Direct sales work well for a market niche, they are here to stay. So are periodic direct sales which are good for business (retailers getting undercut by direct channels happens all the time in a lot of industries. It's a fact of life)

7. Same answer as 5 above plus we really want this problem solved so we don't have to keep answering questions about something that should be transparent in operation.

8. One of the symptoms of our supply problems is that we've not gotten consistent/correct quantities. We need to fix this.

9. Yes, we will be making a clearer distinction with Railroad items (good for those on a budget)

10. The Board doesn't make those decisions without a lot of input from experts (good, the last set of people I want running Hornby are model enthusiasts. They need good businessmen & women running the show)

11. There is no one roadblock. All areas need and are getting improvements.

12. More competitors is good for customers and is good for Hornby if it performs well, because it will grow the market (he ignores the bit about recent announcements having a limited future. Not sure anyone knows that for sure. The most unlikely models become sales hits)

 

This is all pretty good news to me. Hornby still regards model railways are important to its future and I agree with most of what he says. He does need to get the website & facebook to work better though. Supply chain might not be his direct job but those two things are.

 

So I grade Nat at a solid B. Hope he comes back for more after the 2015 announcements.

 

regards, Ron.

[robmcg]

Thankyou Mike, I should have added that other bright spots in the last few months of Hornby's production delivery has been the Cock o' the North and 1960 Duke of Gloucester, both of which are in my opinion fine models.  Mind you I like to collect and photograph models of large engines in 00 so I may not be able to help Hornby much with that alone.

 

As an aside, I am seeing the prices of s/h 'as new' or weathered examples of Hornby's best model engines go up. Sad that Hornby couldn't be cashing in on this market currently. Try buying an 'as new' Britannia or rebuilt Bulleid Light Pacific. I'm sure their new King will sell unless undercut by DJM, and he faces price increases himself.  December 17 will be interesting in that it will give a guide to Hornby's aims. 

[southernelectric]

With all the talk on this thread, and several others on the forum, relating to Hornby's supply chain challenges, it

 

I've highlighted on another (plastic kit modelling) forum that Hornby's difficulties have an impact on all it's brands, they don't operate in isolation. The main feeling I got from the replies could be broken into two 

 

It's interesting you say that because it occurred to me today that I have absolutely no idea where the Scalextric products are made. Are they made in the same factories as the Hornby railway models? Was the SK factory making other products for Hornby PLC?

 

I have a permanent Scalextric layout and all the Scalexctric cars I have bought this year were announced for - and delivered in - 2014. ALL of these have come from retailers, either the shop or via their online stores. None from Scalextric direct.

 

In fact over the last few years since I got back into Scalextric, a little while before becoming acquainted with model railways again, I don't think I've encountered any problems getting Scalextric products I have wanted to buy, even the limited edition stuff. Some I have pre-ordered, some I didn't. So what's the score with that? I don't see any discussion on the various slot car forums to say that Scalextric production/supply chain was being impacted in any way. 

 

So now I'm kind of curious. I haven't bought any of the other Hornby brand products for a while, a few bits of Corgi and an Airfix kit for my father-in-law a few years back for Christmas.

 

But have the retailers seen supply and/or other problems with the other (meaning non-railway) Hornby brands? WidnesModelCentre & other retailers on here - perhaps you might be able to offer some insight on this?

[PGC]

Late to the party but I would like to express my opinion for what it's worth:

 

I'm used to the kind of language Nat used and therefore it's no problem for me. I thought he was fairly direct and tried to answer the questions.

 

To me he clearly says (with my comments in parenthesis):

 

1. Yes we plan to rework old models to new standards (please can we have a new Lord of the Isles & Terrier)

2. Yes the catalogs are obsolete when the model finally arrives but our website should be accurate (it isn't always and it does matter, so please do better)

3. Yes, more N

4a. Our website should have the latest info on delivery dates (it doesn't always and it does matter, so please do better)

4b. We monitor RMWEB and will continue engage directly with it (although he may have changed his mind on that after reading this thread)

5. Supply chain is a huge problem for us as well as Bachmann. It's slowly getting better and we are continuing to invest in those improvements.

6a. Retailers shift the majority of our sales and are very important to us and we will show this by improving our delivery of quality of models to them.

6b. Direct sales work well for a market niche, they are here to stay. So are periodic direct sales which are good for business (retailers getting undercut by direct channels happens all the time in a lot of industries. It's a fact of life)

7. Same answer as 5 above plus we really want this problem solved so we don't have to keep answering questions about something that should be transparent in operation.

8. One of the symptoms of our supply problems is that we've not gotten consistent/correct quantities. We need to fix this.

9. Yes, we will be making a clearer distinction with Railroad items (good for those on a budget)

10. The Board doesn't make those decisions without a lot of input from experts (good, the last set of people I want running Hornby are model enthusiasts. They need good businessmen & women running the show)

11. There is no one roadblock. All areas need and are getting improvements.

12. More competitors is good for customers and is good for Hornby if it performs well, because it will grow the market (he ignores the bit about recent announcements having a limited future. Not sure anyone knows that for sure. The most unlikely models become sales hits)

 

This is all pretty good news to me. Hornby still regards model railways are important to its future and I agree with most of what he says. He does need to get the website & facebook to work better though. Supply chain might not be his direct job but those two things are.

 

So I grade Nat at a solid B. Hope he comes back for more after the 2015 announcements.

 

regards, Ron.

 

If Nat had replied as succinctly as this, I think many of us would have been far more accepting of his answers, and there would have been a lot less of the stinging criticism of "management speak".

 

I am reminded of the marketing department I had to work with years ago - to boost sales, they decided to run a promotion of a product that was not a high volume product and that could could only be produced at maximum 2,500 units per month. Their predicted sales figures for the promotion (over a 6 week period) were 20,000 units. We only produced and carried stock for a 6 week forward supply which was about 1,500 to 2,000 units, so I asked when they were running the promotion, and they replied "in 6 weeks time". I pointed out the logistical problem, and they said "Phil, you'll find a way of helping us out, you always do". I just shrugged my shoulders and said I'd have a word with God as he was the only person I knew who could manage the impossible!

 

My boss at the time advised I should be more accepting of the marketing people as they were the ones who gave the brand it's image, and I asked how he thought the image would be enhanced if the marketing department ran a promotion with no stock. Strangely, I couldn't understand the answer, mingled as it was with coughs etc.

 

Phil

[Multiple identity account]

All of our 2014 Airfix orders have either arrived or are due in this month. Same with Scalextric, except for one car the GT40. We haven't noticed any problems with these brands. Afraid I cannot shed any light on where they are manufactured in terms of factories.

We have had a problem with Humbrol products, no supplies have been a problem this year and that still exists. The paints are now I believe manufactured in the  UK.

 

We buy most of our Airfix and Humbrol through a localish wholesaler and we have deliveries at least once a week every week. Airfix and especially Humbrol are the items we sell the most of. Certainly in terms of high volume. Which bring us nicely back to Brands. Every enquiry certainly at this time of year is for Airfix kits.

 

Hornby might just invest in James May. His Toy Stories saw a boom in ours and I suspect many other retailers sales. We even sold a huge amount of track used in the Hornby programme. All profits went to the British Heart Foundation. I even bought some for my own use (it displays my pre-production sample of a B17 Everton) even though I model in N Gauge.

Airfix kits are produced near where I stay in Bangalore.

[GWRtrainman]

Dear Mr Southworth,

Black Friday Sales Ruin Christmas

Thank you for taking the time to answer the questions put on RM Web.

I appreciate you taking the time, and suspect you, or your team, will read all these posts on Monday. Hence I thought I'd post this open reply - it's reasonably on subject!

 

I felt your reply on questions 6 about the Black Friday sale lacked any real understanding of the impact of having a fire sale across all your brands of so many products during the biggest selling opportunity of the year. I also now have the possibility of failing to deliver my Daughters request for a model railway and winter scene which she wants to build with me over her Christmas holiday (which starts early on the 13th). It's disappointing that as a company your actions have potentially destroyed the opportunity given to me to bring a new person into our hobby.

 

Having had my daughter raise the subject of building a Christmas Diorama with working train I set about researching if this was possible. On the 29th November I considered my options for obtaining a Christmas themed train or set - I found the Hornby Christmas set and checked my local shops - one closed last year, one told me they no longer stock Hornby due to the sad fact they now lose money when stocking and selling your products, the third refused to stock your trains sets after you sold them directly to the public in 2013 for less than he could buy them for. So without much thought I ordered from your website and received Free P&P and a stated delivery within 3 working days. I also went to another two online retailers and ordered 'Snow', Santa figures and a complete Vollmer Christams Town in kit form. This was going to be a great opportunity for me to spend time with a Daughter before she grows too old to think her Dad is cool.

 

My Snow and Vollmer kits arrived on the 3rd, my Santa figures arrived yesterday - I paid P&P on each order but Christmas is important for Children so that was OK. Both retailers emailed me an order confirmation, and a second email when they shipped. I could also track both orders on their website and one via a couriers text updates too.

 

You instead went quiet - no info on order shipment. Then on the evening of the 4th - 4-5 working days after my order - you emailed and said that due to the Black Friday sale my order was going to be late. The email on first reading stated that you were currently aiming for 5 working day delivery instead of 3. OK, fine - I've ordered well before Christmas and lets face it - it's a toy for a child, not the end of the world or anything. But today I spotted a link on this discussion about the delays and clicked the link to your website. The wording is slightly different on line and suggests you're actually unable to hit a 5 day working lead time at present and without any update I'm now wondering if you're actually going to ship the goods to me this coming week.

 

I'm sure we will see the Train Set before it's required, but surely of all the times of the year to destroy your advertised delivery dates and to cause uncertainly - why on earth pick the most important shopping period of the year for new customers and people with a deadline to run such a sale? A short Black Friday sale on old stock is fine, but you had a week long clear out of lots of products inducing those you were advertising in full page adverts at the same time as 'Just Arrived' and at full price - it makes no sense and strikes me as just flushing money down the drain.

 

Plus - as you're unable to send goods within a week of order, surely you should be honest enough to tell new customers that - today your website is still saying delivery in 3 days. That's not fair nor truthful is it?

 

Regards

A Father who's been let down.

PS I paid full price for all the items I ordered - I'm not sure a Black Friday sale would have made me buy more.

[TheSignalEngineer]

Not quite true there are at least 42 Humbrol products that are showing as not in stock. A lot of which are basic colours.

A few weeks ago my local shop ran out of Acrylic Matt Black, so I changed to another brand. The same brand has a nice Brick Red which is good base for BR Bauxite and a good selection of greys. I have enough in stock now to not need Humbrol in 2015.

[TheSignalEngineer]

Dear Mr Southworth,

Black Friday Sale Ruins Christmas

Thank you for taking the time to answer the questions put on RM Web.

..........................................

Plus - as you're unable to send goods within a week of order, surely you should be honest enough to tell new customers that - today your website is still saying delivery in 3 days. That's not fair nor truthful is it?

 

Not that they were for Christmas I ordered three items from the Hornby website on 29th November and am still waiting to hear when they will arrive.

[Loconuts]

Plenty of Red Boxes at my local retailer.  What problem?

 

Loconuts

[Andy Y]

Plenty of Red Boxes at my local retailer.  What problem?

 

Loconuts

 

 

There's plenty of cars down at our nearest car dealership but they haven't got the one that I wanted to look at which they had in their brochure. So we went and had a look at another make and bought that instead.

[Ian Hargrave]

Plenty of Red Boxes at my local retailer.  What problem?

 

Loconuts

So....you have a retailer,then.How fortunate.Where might that be?

[Ian Hargrave]

Thankyou Mike, I should have added that other bright spots in the last few months of Hornby's production delivery has been the Cock o' the North and 1960 Duke of Gloucester, both of which are in my opinion fine models.  Mind you I like to collect and photograph models of large engines in 00 so I may not be able to help Hornby much with that alone.

 

As an aside, I am seeing the prices of s/h 'as new' or weathered examples of Hornby's best model engines go up. Sad that Hornby couldn't be cashing in on this market currently. Try buying an 'as new' Britannia or rebuilt Bulleid Light Pacific. I'm sure their new King will sell unless undercut by DJM, and he faces price increases himself.  December 17 will be interesting in that it will give a guide to Hornby's aims.

 

They are indeed fine models.It is unfortunate that you chose the two models which were non runners on delivery to me and highlighted QC issues for some.Sorry,Rob...

[Ian Hargrave]

Not that they were for Christmas I ordered three items from the Hornby website on 29th November and am still waiting to hear when they will arrive.

Unless you make repeated calls and e mails you won't. Their internet mail order service needs a good shake up.If they want to go direct sell then the system should be fit for purpose.It isn't.It is painfully slow.How long must the excuse of moving warehouse be used?

 

You may get a consignment number after multiple requests.....but no tracking number. When and if you do get that,find the phone number of your nearest UKMail depot ,give them a ring and they'll tell you if they're going to deliver and when.

Quaint or what ?

[petethemole]

According to a local dealer who had to go to Margate to collect some stock, the warehouse move is still ongoing and there's still a lot of stock there, and in the factory shop. Not that that should be a reason or excuse for late delivery.

[4630]

According to a local dealer who had to go to Margate to collect some stock, the warehouse move is still ongoing and there's still a lot of stock there, and in the factory shop. Not that that should be a reason or excuse for late delivery.

For me this, together with all the other similar posts in this thread, I'm afraid just point to one thing - continued failure by and of management at Hornby.

 

No one else is responsible. Not the customers, retailers, employees, suppliers, shipping agents or HM Revenue & Customs.

 

Neither is it a failure of process, or IT systems.

 

It's a continued failure of management.

[finelines]

I think we need to plan for the post-Hornby era.

 

The knock on effect will be worse than imagined. Mums, Dads, Grandmothers sand Grandfathers who are not in the hobby want Hornby trainsets. If they can't buy the brand they won't buy. I've been in the local shop when grandad refused to buy the equivalent Peco Settrack because the Hornby was out of stock.

 

Hornby has alway been a partnership between toy trainers and the modellers. There always were grumbles about the compromises they took to enable the trains to go round the ridiculously sharp curves decreed by Rovex, but they rubbed along together.

 

Hornby's business is making money, the way they do it is making model railways. They don't seem to understand the relationship between themselves, their retailers and their customers. I'm not even convinced they did due diligence when they bought the European junk companies when they bought them, but I am not certain they could have done because there is little evidence the management understand model railways/toy trains.

[coachmann]

Next time anyone feels surprised and saddened by remarks and attitudes expressed on here, it is unlikely that only gentlemen and scholars of the first water bother to join RMweb... 

 

Personally I considered the replies by Nat as non-replies and was not one bit surprised at this when entries are open to scrutiny by everyone, his employers, shareholders and those with other stakes in Hornby. Nat has to be very guarded and sound responsible rather than come over as a chummy spotter whose narrow interest in boxes overrides every other aspect of life. Hornby's problems and apparent 'attitude' are out there for all to see who want to see, and they will only have changed when the customer - retailer - whatever perceives they have changed. I have a feeling that change will beat to the post the take-up on patience, soap and tall hats...      .

[Legend]

Not sure things are so Rosie with Airfix. I'm still waiting for a BOAC 707 re release that was due in September. No sign of it yet!

[PaulG]

Not that they were for Christmas I ordered three items from the Hornby website on 29th November and am still waiting to hear when they will arrive.

 

I ordered two Thompson carriages direct from Hornby after they e-mailed me to tell me they were back in stock and they arrived in a couple of days well packed etc, so well pleased.

 

Not a particular important statement, but I hadn't read in any magazine or website that there was a re-release of these carriages due, but Hornby had kept my record of interest in the carriages and got in touch. 

 

There is good news around, as well as the all too frequent complaints one reads about Hornby on websites such as RMweb

 

Paul

[ruggedpeak]

Plenty of Red Boxes at my local retailer.  What problem?

 

Loconuts

 

Exeters? Amazon Tornado's at £40? Black Friday Class 153's at under £50? Reindeer wagons (if so let me know!)?

 

Or the same boxes that were there 6 months ago at near full RRP and costing the retailer to have it sitting there?

 

Or perhaps a Hornby concession? Interestingly last weekend at Shildon Locomotion Models they had matched the Class 153 Black Friday price IIRC.

 

Having been to a range of railway venues over the last few months (NYMR, Shildon, and more) it is noticeable that most I have been to had model shops full of stock being discounted. None had empty shelves but all had things that have presumably been there for some time, and were offering discounts across all or many items. The model shop opposite Pickering station was also having a closing down sale a few weeks back.

[M.Riddell]

Not sure things are so Rosie with Airfix. I'm still waiting for a BOAC 707 re release that was due in September. No sign of it yet!

 

That's one of the kits that's been shifted to next year, they made the announcement last month:

 

http://www.airfix.com/news/airfix-sea-day-2014/

 

Likewise Hornby did post a notification on the 3rd that there would be delays in shipping orders:

 

http://www.Hornby.com/news/Hornby-delivery-delays/

 

http://www.airfix.com/news/airfix-delivery-delays/

 

http://www.scalextric.com/news/scalextric-delivery-delays/

 

http://www.corgi.co.uk/news/corgi-delivery-delays/

 

http://www.humbrol.com/news/delivery-delays-humbrol/

 

So at least they are communicating, even if it isn't what people really wish to hear. Given the time of year and the Black Friday sale, I'd actually be more surprised that there weren't delays. Certainly for my own Christmas shopping I try to avoid ordering anything online once the 1st of December passes as I expect both the retailers and the Post/Couriers to gridlock.

 

Mike.

[TheSignalEngineer]

Plenty of Red Boxes at my local retailer.  What problem?

 

Loconuts

I haven't got a local retailer. He shut up shop because he got fed up of having no red boxes to sell.

[Ceptic]

Late to the party but I would like to express my opinion for what it's worth:

 

I'm used to the kind of language Nat used and therefore it's no problem for me. I thought he was fairly direct and tried to answer the questions.

 

To me he clearly says (with my comments in parenthesis):

 

1. Yes we plan to rework old models to new standards (please can we have a new Lord of the Isles & Terrier)

2. Yes the catalogs are obsolete when the model finally arrives but our website should be accurate (it isn't always and it does matter, so please do better)

3. Yes, more N

4a. Our website should have the latest info on delivery dates (it doesn't always and it does matter, so please do better)

4b. We monitor RMWEB and will continue engage directly with it (although he may have changed his mind on that after reading this thread)

5. Supply chain is a huge problem for us as well as Bachmann. It's slowly getting better and we are continuing to invest in those improvements.

6a. Retailers shift the majority of our sales and are very important to us and we will show this by improving our delivery of quality of models to them.

6b. Direct sales work well for a market niche, they are here to stay. So are periodic direct sales which are good for business (retailers getting undercut by direct channels happens all the time in a lot of industries. It's a fact of life)

7. Same answer as 5 above plus we really want this problem solved so we don't have to keep answering questions about something that should be transparent in operation.

8. One of the symptoms of our supply problems is that we've not gotten consistent/correct quantities. We need to fix this.

9. Yes, we will be making a clearer distinction with Railroad items (good for those on a budget)

10. The Board doesn't make those decisions without a lot of input from experts (good, the last set of people I want running Hornby are model enthusiasts. They need good businessmen & women running the show)

11. There is no one roadblock. All areas need and are getting improvements.

12. More competitors is good for customers and is good for Hornby if it performs well, because it will grow the market (he ignores the bit about recent announcements having a limited future. Not sure anyone knows that for sure. The most unlikely models become sales hits)

 

This is all pretty good news to me. Hornby still regards model railways are important to its future and I agree with most of what he says. He does need to get the website & facebook to work better though. Supply chain might not be his direct job but those two things are.

 

So I grade Nat at a solid B. Hope he comes back for more after the 2015 announcements.

 

regards, Ron.

 

Many thanks Ron for this / your interpretation of 'Managementspeak'

 

Nat's replies reminded me of George Orwell's '1984', 'Newspeak'.

 

Surely ?, another job going vacant, at Hornby, (This time, as an interpreter).

[4630]

According to a local dealer who had to go to Margate to collect some stock, the warehouse move is still ongoing and there's still a lot of stock there, and in the factory shop. Not that that should be a reason or excuse for late delivery.

 

That's curious as Hornby released a Regulatory News Service (RNS) message to the London Stock Exchange on 24th October 2014 to say that the warehouse move had been completed.

 

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/market-news/market-news-detail/12127992.html

 

Perhaps they made a mistake.