Hornby Merchant Navy announced (formerly Facebook leak)

[Budgie]

Model Railways are not a matter of life and death - it's more important than that.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. Stress is not good for you, and can lead to early death. Model railways help alleviate stress, thereby preventing early death, and they allow you to have fun at the same time.

[Robin Brasher]

Not sure if model railways alleviate stress. Have you tried packing up after an exhibition with the caretaker flashing the lights off and on? Coming back to the subject I would like to see Hornby doing some joined up thinking with the airsmoothed Merchant Navy. In the February 2006 issue of Model Rail magazine Chris Leigh and Graham Muspratt, who are both regular contributors to the RM Web, wrote an excellent article about how to represent the Devon Belle using Hornby coaches. If Hornby did some joined up thinking it could reintroduce these coaches with some of the Merchant Navy Pacifics that hauled this train from Waterloo to Willton from 20 June 1947 to 1954. Examples include 35009 Shaw Saville and 35013 Blue Funnel.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Robin Brasher

[Graham_Muz]

In the February 2006 issue of the Hornby magazine Chris Leigh and Graham Muspratt, who are both regular contributors to the RM Web, wrote an excellent article about how to represent the Devon Belle using Hornby coaches.

Robin

 

You need to check the information in your post, I think you must mean the February 2006 of Model Rail magazine as firstly Chris Leigh has never written for the rival Hornby magazine and secondly the Hornby Magazine was not launched until April 2007!

 

I also was not involved with such an article back in 2006 so have been incorrectly credited by you with what assume was Chris's work.

[Robin Brasher]

Sorry Graham it was Model Rail February 2006 on pages 32 to 33. The Hornby trade mark

 was at the top of the article. You wrote a Reader's Letter which was marshalled by Chris Leigh in response to a question on the Devon Belle formation.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Robin Brasher

[Graham_Muz]

Hi Robin

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

I do of course run a Devon Belle on Fisherton Sarum as can be seen here http://grahammuz.com/2013/01/29/talking-stock-20-the-devon-belle/ but I run the 00 Works Observation Car not the Hornby one.

[Robin Brasher]

I bought an 00 Works Devon Belle observation car as well which came out a few years before the Hornby one. I took it to the Wimborne Railway Society's test track where George asked me how much I had paid for it. I said it was about £110 to which he replied that I must be mad. The following week he came up to me and asked where he could buy one from. Devon Belle car 14 observation car is now on the Swanage Railway and there is a picture in the Swanage Railway's appeal for donations of the observation car at the end of a 12 car Pullman train. The locomotive is barely visible but it was probably an airsmoothed Merchant Navy.

[Godfrey Glyn]

I bought an 00 Works Devon Belle observation car as well which came out a few years before the Hornby one. I took it to the Wimborne Railway Society's test track where George asked me how much I had paid for it. I said it was about £110 to which he replied that I must be mad. The following week he came up to me and asked where he could buy one from. Devon Belle car 14 observation car is now on the Swanage Railway and there is a picture in the Swanage Railway's appeal for donations of the observation car at the end of a 12 car Pullman train. The locomotive is barely visible but it was probably an airsmoothed Merchant Navy.

Robin, tell him to ring Alton Model Centre. Paul Treacher had a second hand one in the shop last week. i think it was £60.

Hope that is of some use.

Godfrey

[Dunsignalling]

ORIGINAL MERCHANT NAVY LOCO DATA.xlsxORIGINAL MERCHANT NAVY LOCOS FITTING THE FOLLOWING REQUIREMENTS.docx

Hi John--I agree that if you want to run both rebuilt and original M.N.s side by side (as I do) you are better doing this via a choice of different locos.

My preference  would be to run both types over the period 1956-59 and it is easy enough to work this out given all the information previously made available.

However for maximum appeal from the wider interested modelling public covering the 30 original locos and their lifespans in that form (the extremes being 1941 to 1959 ) you need to look elsewhere----On average at least 50% of the locos time was spent in later modified form with different cab and standard smoke deflectors,These looked quite different to the later more standardised form.This  does not cover the many other mods.involved.

Good news indeed that it will finally become available.

For my own purposes I attempted to develop a condensed file to assist in the correct choice of loco--the data came from different (more knowledgeable )sources .It may be of interest to some ---- please refer to the attached

regards, 

Ed

ps hope I have succeeded with the attachments

Hi Ed, 

 

You have indeed.

 

I've compiled a number of similar tables for my own use over the years and get the feeling that many who prefer the original cabs think they lasted longer than they did.

 

Only four locos retained them beyond 1950 and, as far as I can make out, 21C2 / 35002 'Union Castle' was the only one to carry all the liveries (Malachite, Wartime black, Malachite again, BR blue and BR green) before receiving the modified version.  

 

John

[Horsetan]

....Stress is not good for you, and can lead to early death. Model railways help alleviate stress, thereby preventing early death, and they allow you to have fun at the same time.

 

They can equally cause stress, judging by the frenzy every time a new RTR model is (finally) released.....

[G-BOAF]

Reply to post #326 (I can't quote on my browser at present (my own fault for using IE on this particular machine...))

 

Not totally correct - the Hornby rebuilds have series 2 and series 3 tenders, but this had not technically prevented Hornby making series 1 locos. Post rebuilding tenders tended to swap round between locos, as well as into preservation. Hence Hornby have produced two series 1 MNs to date in rebuilt form:

 

35005 (series 1 loco) with a series 3 tender (in preserved BR Blue).

 

We also have had 35010 Blue Star (series 1) coupled to a 5100 series 2 tender (in BR Green).

 

This said, your general point is correct, Series 1 locos are less commonly modelled.

Edited March 4, 2015 by G-BOAF

[Graham_Muz]

Regardless of the tooling for the rebuilds I can confirm having been in conversation with the design team that the new Original Air Smoothed Merchant Navy releases will be from totally new tooling for all components.

 

This is for a number reasons:

a) to improve on existing tooling,

b ) also which is common to Bachmann as well as Hornby; it is not good practice to share only certain elements of tolling between different models as this creates different wear rates across tools

c) is also a logistical nightmare in tooling storage (ie which model do you store it against) let alone which factory...

[Dunsignalling]

Reply to post #326 (I can't quote on my browser at present (my own fault for using IE on this particular machine...))

 

Not totally correct - the Hornby rebuilds have series 2 and series 3 tenders, but this had not technically prevented Hornby making series 1 locos. Post rebuilding tenders tended to swap round between locos, as well as into preservation. Hence Hornby have produced two series 1 MNs to date in rebuilt form:

 

35005 (series 1 loco) with a series 3 tender (in preserved BR Blue).

 

We also have had 35010 Blue Star (series 1) coupled to a 5100 series 2 tender (in BR Green).

 

This said, your general point is correct, Series 1 locos are less commonly modelled.

The tender attached to the blue one is wrong anyway. At the time it was released, it was the only MN tender Hornby had produced.  

 

Moreover, I can't see any differences on the loco compared to the contemporary 'Clan Line' and 'Holland-Afrika Line' (Series 3) models. 

 

Upon rebuilding in 1959, 35005 received one of the rebodied tenders (5250 gallon) as portrayed by Hornby Dublo / Wrenn.

 

It currently (or as currently as I can establish) has a cut down 5000 gallon (series 1) tender, which has been with it throughout preservation unless there have been temporary borrowings of which I am unaware. It is therefore this type that the model in preserved blue livery should have had.

 

For me, at least, Hornby's 'Canadian Pacific' therefore doesn't qualify as a model of a rebuilt Series 1 loco. 

 

John

Edited March 4, 2015 by Dunsignalling

[Forester]

Regardless of the tooling for the rebuilds I can confirm having been in conversation with the design team that the new Original Air Smoothed Merchant Navy releases will be from totally new tooling for all components.

 

This is for a number reasons:

a) to improve on existing tooling,

b ) also which is common to Bachmann as well as Hornby; it is not good practice to share only certain elements of tolling between different models as this creates different wear rates across tools

c) is also a logistical nightmare in tooling storage (ie which model do you store it against) let alone which factory...

 

I guess your main interest is in the earlier body form of MNs in SR livery, and these will be most welcome.

 

Would you be interested in encouraging to Hornby produce a body moulding which could be adapted to provide for the later wedge cab for those of us with BR layouts?

 

Thanks, and your input into this model is much appreciated.

[Dunsignalling]

I guess your main interest is in the earlier body form of MNs in SR livery, and these will be most welcome.

 

Would you be interested in encouraging to Hornby produce a body moulding which could be adapted to provide for the later wedge cab for those of us with BR layouts?

 

Thanks, and your input into this model is much appreciated.

I think the differences between a 1941 MN and a typical post-1950 loco are too great to bridge without tooling a completely different body. 

 

John

[Graham_Muz]

Even thought the first releases are likely (as they have not yet been fully confirmed) to be the 1941 build version (which I add is too early even for my own modelling period of 1946 to 1949 - so I don't have total influence   ) , the intention I have been told is that Hornby will be taking a wide range of the prototype variations into account via a combination of tooling options.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Graham_Muz

[Guest]

On the subject of Canadian Pacific

WC 34007 "Wadebridge" currently runs with 35005's 5,000 gallon tender (Hence the different shade of green)

 

However, this tender has a much more angular appearance around the bunker, and the fire iron tunnels next to the bunker run the full length of the bunker. Whereas the tender 35005 ran with earlier in it's preservation history seems to have a much more curved appearance: https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3528/3703928639_571925582c.jpg

 

Was 35005's tender modified to give it the more conventional aesthetics of a 5000 gallon tender it currently has behind 34007? Or is it a different tender altogether?
 

While in BR Blue, 35005 ran with the same tender as from the link (https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3421/3890857828_f62170e80f_z.jpg), so if it is the same tender as is currently behind 34007, then this would mean that 35005 ran with a 5,000 gallon tender while in BR blue in preservation, albeit with a modified appearance to a conventional 5000 gallon Bulleid tender. Otherwise, if it is a different tender altogether, then what size was the one that 35005 ran with in Blue?


Although, running a Merchant Navy tender behind a Light Pacific in preservation isn't anything new. 34067 "Tangmere" runs with a MN 5,100 gallon tender albeit heavily modified to at least resemble a 5,500 gallon light pacific tender. Also 34028 "Eddystone" ran with a 'hybrid' tender of a newly constructed 5,500 gallon frame, while using a second hand body of a 5,000 gallon MN tank for it's first term in preservation.

 

34028:

 

 

Regards,
Matt

Edited March 4, 2015 by TheSoutherner

[toboldlygo]

Even thought the first releases are likely (as they have not yet been fully confirmed) to be the 1941 build version (which I add is too early even for my own modelling period of 1946 to 1949 - so I don't have total influence   ) , the intention I have been told is that Hornby will be taking a wide range of the prototype variations into account via a combination of tooling options.

Should also be pointed out there are a number of differences in the 5,100gl tenders as well!!

[JaymzHatstand]

On the subject of Canadian Pacific

 

WC 34007 "Wadebridge" currently runs with 35005's 5,000 gallon tender (Hence the different shade of green)

2014 part 3-22 - 1.jpg

 

Regards,

Matt

That is a pretty drastic variance in colour! And people get worked up about whole locos being in different shades of green! Prototype for everything!

 

Cheers

 

J

Edited March 4, 2015 by JaymzHatstand

[Guest]

That is a pretty drastic variance in colour! And people get worked up about whole locos being in different shades of green! Prototype for everything!

 

Cheers

 

J

There were 6 different shades of green used by BR...

 

http://www.southern-locomotives.co.uk/News/Pictures/2014/02_BR%20Colours.jpg

 

1.) Deep Bronze, as used by BR from 1956

2.) Middle Brunswick

3.) Middle Chrome, as used by GWR and originally specified by BR

4.) Middle Bronze

5.) Olive

6.) Deep Brunswick. 

 

Full article under 'February 2014': http://www.southern-locomotives.co.uk/News/news_2014.html

[Linesideohotos]

This tender is off 34046 Braunton, Its 34007s third tender on the MHR. It started with a borrowed one from 35025 then had the larger tender from 35005 when that was withdrawn and then that was swapped with the smaller tender from Braunton . Its own new build tender is currently being finished off ..

I hope you now are fully up to date. (Also hence why the paint is different !!) 34046 is also two shades of green.

[Dunsignalling]

This tender is off 34046 Braunton, Its 34007s third tender on the MHR. It started with a borrowed one from 35025 then had the larger tender from 35005 when that was withdrawn and then that was swapped with the smaller tender from Braunton . Its own new build tender is currently being finished off ..

I hope you now are fully up to date. (Also hence why the paint is different !!) 34046 is also two shades of green.

Thanks for the update. Promiscuous bunch, these Bulleid tenders!   

 

John

[Combe Martin]

It might have been 'off Braunton' but it wasn't Braunton's tender.  It was borrowed from another Merchant Navy while Braunton's correct new 'rebodied' tender was being built, can't remember which one.

[Hroth]

So what we're really saying is that provided the loco isn't modelled in "works" condition, it doesn't "really" matter what tender is hung on it?

 

(With the provisio that its some kind of spamcan tender...)

 

 

 

That solves a lot of problems!  Now all we have to worry about is if the class ever worked anywhere near "location X".  In fact, all we need say is that "of course, its working a Football Cup Tie special for Southhampton fans to visit oh I don't know. Carlisle United?"  Then you can run any kind of coach, the rattier the better, behind it!

 

*tiptoes away*

[Dunsignalling]

So what we're really saying is that provided the loco isn't modelled in "works" condition, it doesn't "really" matter what tender is hung on it?

 

(With the provisio that its some kind of spamcan tender...)

 

 

 

That solves a lot of problems!  Now all we have to worry about is if the class ever worked anywhere near "location X".  In fact, all we need say is that "of course, its working a Football Cup Tie special for Southhampton fans to visit oh I don't know. Carlisle United?"  Then you can run any kind of coach, the rattier the better, behind it!

 

*tiptoes away*

Only if you are modelling the preservation scene on a heritage line.

 

'Wadebridge' wouldn't be allowed out on the main line network (now or back in the day) with any of her borrowed tenders as they are 9' wide and route availability is based on the dimensions of the loco which is 8'6". 

 

Mind you, Hornby have already done one with an LMS tender that went all over the place back in 1948!

 

John

Edited March 5, 2015 by Dunsignalling

[toboldlygo]

So what we're really saying is that provided the loco isn't modelled in "works" condition, it doesn't "really" matter what tender is hung on it?

 

(With the provisio that its some kind of spamcan tender...)

 

 

 

That solves a lot of problems!  Now all we have to worry about is if the class ever worked anywhere near "location X".  In fact, all we need say is that "of course, its working a Football Cup Tie special for Southhampton fans to visit oh I don't know. Carlisle United?"  Then you can run any kind of coach, the rattier the better, behind it!

 

*tiptoes away*

 

Careful don't upset those men in Malachite Green and Sunshine Yellow Lined Robes - the last person who did, ended up in a whole load of little spamcans....

 

...Apparently he got frittered away!   

Edited March 5, 2015 by toboldlygo