Hornby Merchant Navy announced (formerly Facebook leak)

[250BOB]

When they were first announced earlier in the year, way before the 2016 range announcement, Hattons put a placeholder product on the website, this is most likely what Andy was referring to.

This is the email Ed 66 Plant is referring to.

There is no doubt in my mind, it is asking for confusion and alarm.!!!!

Hattons maybe need re think how they word this sort of email in future.

Bob

 

On Wednesday, 9 December 2015, 15:30, "notify@ehattons.com" <notify@ehattons.com> wrote:

 

 

Hello

 

This is an email to let you know that the following item has been cancelled from production, and, as you requested an email notification of its arrival, thought you would like to know that it is not now expected to be released.

 

Hornby HornbyMerchantNavy, which you can see at http://www.ehattons.com/stockdetail.aspx?SID=112042

 

We are unsure of the specific reason for the cancellation, and will try to keep its descriptive text updated to provide any information which the manufacturer releases. You will remain signed-up for notification – so if it is reinstated and delivered then you will receive a notification.

 

We apologise for any inconvenience this has caused.

 

Regards

---------------------------------------------------

Hattons Model Railways

http://www.ehattons.com

0151 733 3655

Shop open & phones manned Monday - Saturday 8am - 6pm Sun 10am-4pm

---------------------------------------------------

[Ian Hargrave]

Just to reassure all....this is a phenomenon peculiar to Hattons and in the past has been sent out as a coded message for "we can't get any more".Just why it has occurred in this case is a mystery known only to them.I suspect it's a seismic fault in theIr IT system.Either that or more cynically sent to put you off buying anywhere else.So not the first time but extremely annoying nevertheless. Advice: take no notice..it goes back years.The first time it happened to me was when Hornby released 70004 Brit. "William Shakespeare" some 3 or so years ago.

[Dunsignalling]

I've just had a look at the forthcoming releases section of the Hatton's website and the item is listed as "available to pre-order for £144". 

 

My guess is that what's happened to you is an anomaly that arises when they upgrade a 'placeholder' entry with the proper details.

 

Definitely something they need to address, though.

 

Mind you, the website has been doing some odd things lately, like including second-hand items in the New Releases page for a few days earlier this week.

 

John

Edited December 10, 2015 by Dunsignalling

[ed 66 plant]

I've just had a look at the forthcoming releases section of the Hatton's website and the item is listed as "available to pre-order for £144". 

 

My guess is that what's happened to you is an anomaly that arises when they upgrade a 'placeholder' entry with the proper details.

 

Definitely something they need to address, though.

 

Mind you, the website has been doing some odd things lately, like including second-hand items in the New Releases page for a few days earlier this week.

 

John

Gentlemen--have just had confirmation from Hattons that my order remains--sorry if I raised concerns unduly but the communications I received which were then confirmed by the" can I help chat line" initially  convinced me that this was the case.

[ed 66 plant]

Please do not think that just because Hornby have only released glimpses of CADs of a particular variant to date that this all they intend to release or are currently working on...

Graham----I see from your blog that R3436 is pretty well specified reference overt changes.

I would not wish to improperly drag out into the open other detailed changes if they are privy at this stage or indeed not yet determined----but is it known if original or resited safety valves will feature--plain or fluted coupling rods ?

The info will tell me how easy or otherwise it will be to convert from 35028 to 35030 or 35027.

Thank you,

 Ed

[Dunsignalling]

Graham----I see from your blog that R3436 is pretty well specified reference overt changes.

I would not wish to improperly drag out into the open other detailed changes if they are privy at this stage or indeed not yet determined----but is it known if original or resited safety valves will feature--plain or fluted coupling rods ?

The info will tell me how easy or otherwise it will be to convert from 35028 to 35030 or 35027.

Thank you,

 Ed

Published references generally suggest that removal of the fairings ahead of the cylinders often (though perhaps not always) took place during the same works visit at which the safety valves were re-positioned.

 

If that is the case, the safety valves will be the same on all 2016 versions and none of the models so far listed will be appropriate for those of us whose modelling era is later than 1952/3.

 

I am assuming that they will be so until I see any indication to the contrary and am refraining from ordering any until I am confident of being able to purchase one in 1958/9 condition.

 

John

Edited December 10, 2015 by Dunsignalling

[Graham_Muz]

Graham----I see from your blog that R3436 is pretty well specified reference overt changes.

I would not wish to improperly drag out into the open other detailed changes if they are privy at this stage or indeed not yet determined----but is it known if original or resited safety valves will feature--plain or fluted coupling rods ?

The info will tell me how easy or otherwise it will be to convert from 35028 to 35030 or 35027.

Thank you,

 Ed

 

Ed

 

I am afraid that I am not at liberty to divulge such details of Hornby's future plans as I am under an NDA.

[Graham_Muz]

Published references generally suggest that removal of the fairings ahead of the cylinders often (though perhaps not always) took place during the same works visit at which the safety valves were re-positioned.

 

 

John

 

John

 

As you say this is not always the case and indeed wasn't the case for either 35028 or 35023 whose safety valves were resited at a different time (later) to the removal of their front fairings (casings)

[Forester]

I am assuming that they will be so until I see any indication to the contrary and am refraining from ordering any until I am confident of being able to purchase one in 1958/9 condition.

 

 

Over the last 60-odd years I've run unrebuilt "Merchant Navy" models made out of cereal boxes, bashed about plastic kits, repainted Triang and Wrenn BoBs, cut about Hornby West Countries, dubious kits from Millholme and others .....

 

May I say definitively: I can accept a bit of misplaced fairing and wrongly sited safety valves ,just for now! Yes, I really, really can!

[ed 66 plant]

Published references generally suggest that removal of the fairings ahead of the cylinders often (though perhaps not always) took place during the same works visit at which the safety valves were re-positioned.

 

If that is the case, the safety valves will be the same on all 2016 versions and none of the models so far listed will be appropriate for those of us whose modelling era is later than 1952/3.

 

I am assuming that they will be so until I see any indication to the contrary and am refraining from ordering any until I am confident of being able to purchase one in 1958/9 condition.

 

John

Hi John,

             We are told that 35028 will be minus the front cylinder fairing and that it will have Br green livery +early crest.

That dates it from June 1953 and beyond.

It is stated that its safety valves were resited Dec. 1954.

If modelled with all the above in mind and safety valves as originally sited,it would cover the period 6/53 to 12/54.

If modelled after s.valve resiting it would cover the period from Dec. 1954 until it received the second emblem--and this was before rebuilding in Otober 1959.

So far from reference books I have found that 35028 ran with the early crest certainly as late as 23/6/57 and no doubt somewhat beyond.

On the other hand I have seen a pic. with second emblem as early as Sept. 1958.

Does anyone know when 35028 received the second emblem?

That would then fix the time frame for the second option with valves resited.

We aso know it will have the 6000g. H.S tender,std deflectors,revised cab etc.

Flat sided con rods as opposed to fluted seemed to arrive 1955/6.

regards,Ed

ps--as you may be aware I am trying to get to the bottom of this for onward conversion to either 35027 or 35030 --maybe with some compromise.

[Graham_Muz]

Ed

 

35028 gained the late crest in August 1958

[ed 66 plant]

Ed

 

35028 gained the late crest in August 1958

Graham,

              Thank you for the date.

The second option therefore with resited s. valves would cover the period --

Dec. 1954 through to August 1958.

This represents the longest time period (3 and 2/3 years)" in fixed guise" and maybe the best selling window?

regards,Ed

[toboldlygo]

Hi John,

             We are told that 35028 will be minus the front cylinder fairing and that it will have Br green livery +early crest.

That dates it from June 1953 and beyond.

It is stated that its safety valves were resited Dec. 1954.

If modelled with all the above in mind and safety valves as originally sited,it would cover the period 6/53 to 12/54.

If modelled after s.valve resiting it would cover the period from Dec. 1954 until it received the second emblem--and this was before rebuilding in Otober 1959.

So far from reference books I have found that 35028 ran with the early crest certainly as late as 23/6/57 and no doubt somewhat beyond.

On the other hand I have seen a pic. with second emblem as early as Sept. 1958.

Does anyone know when 35028 received the second emblem?

That would then fix the time frame for the second option with valves resited.

We aso know it will have the 6000g. H.S tender,std deflectors,revised cab etc.

Flat sided con rods as opposed to fluted seemed to arrive 1955/6.

regards,Ed

ps--as you may be aware I am trying to get to the bottom of this for onward conversion to either 35027 or 35030 --maybe with some compromise.

 

Ed,

 

If you haven't got Irwell's The Book of the Merchant Navy Pacifics, I'd recommend you get it - as you will find it (just have Hornby) extremely useful. Another I can thoroughly recommend is the Haynes Great Locomotive Series: The Original Bulleid Pacifics, that's purely for the quality of the pictures.

[ed 66 plant]

Ed,

 

If you haven't got Irwell's The Book of the Merchant Navy Pacifics, I'd recommend you get it - as you will find it (just have Hornby) extremely useful. Another I can thoroughly recommend is the Haynes Great Locomotive Series: The Original Bulleid Pacifics, that's purely for the quality of the pictures.

Thank you --I have the former and it does contain lots of good info.I do not have  the latter so I,ll be on the look out.

Ed

[ed 66 plant]

Over the last 60-odd years I've run unrebuilt "Merchant Navy" models made out of cereal boxes, bashed about plastic kits, repainted Triang and Wrenn BoBs, cut about Hornby West Countries, dubious kits from Millholme and others .....

 

May I say definitively: I can accept a bit of misplaced fairing and wrongly sited safety valves ,just for now! Yes, I really, really can!

 

I am glad that you can be so tolerant on certain matters,

regards,

Ed

[olivegreen]

Ed,

 

If you haven't got Irwell's The Book of the Merchant Navy Pacifics, I'd recommend you get it - as you will find it (just have Hornby) extremely useful. Another I can thoroughly recommend is the Haynes Great Locomotive Series: The Original Bulleid Pacifics, that's purely for the quality of the pictures.

I have just received the Irwell book on the Merchant Navys (Navies?) and I can also thoroughly recommend it.

 

I never realised how many variations there were in so few engines (at the time, that is) as the MN design was developed - to some extent by trial and error - in the days during and just after WW2.  As someone else on this topic has already mentioned, these differences are a minefield if you are looking to represent a specific loco at a specific time.  An example, for what it's worth:  I was hoping to represent 21C8 Orient Line (because of a loose family connection) in malachite with the original cab…which, until I read the book, I hadn't realised was not possible.

 

As for the later differences during the rebuilding era…the minefield gets bigger!

[JZ]

Ed

 

35028 gained the late crest in August 1958

Very,very slightly off topic, but am I right in saying that 35028 was the only rebuilt MN to run with an un-modified tender?

[olivegreen]

Very,very slightly off topic, but am I right in saying that 35028 was the only rebuilt MN to run with an un-modified tender?

If we read 'unmodified' as 'high-sided', then the picture on page 204 of the Irwell book shows 35020 Bibby Line with one, though this was apparently purely for a series of tests in May and June 1956.

 

Others far better versed than me will be able to reply with greater precision.

 

Mike.

[RFS]

JZ, on 13 Dec 2015 - 15:14, said:

Very,very slightly off topic, but am I right in saying that 35028 was the only rebuilt MN to run with an un-modified tender?

 

35028's high-sided tender was rebuilt when the loco itself was rebuilt in October 1959. AFAIK it never ran in rebuilt form with an unmodified tender.  It was, however, the only MN to run in original condition with an unmodified tender having the final BR crest. 

[Graham_Muz]

Hi John,

             We are told that 35028 will be minus the front cylinder fairing and that it will have Br green livery +early crest.

That dates it from June 1953 and beyond.

It is stated that its safety valves were resited Dec. 1954.

If modelled with all the above in mind and safety valves as originally sited,it would cover the period 6/53 to 12/54.

If modelled after s.valve resiting it would cover the period from Dec. 1954 until it received the second emblem--and this was before rebuilding in Otober 1959.

 

I can confirm that the 35028 release in 2016 will be in the condition that she ran in between June 1953 and December 1954 i.e. in Brunswick Green, early crest, minus the front fairings and with the forward sited safety valves.

 

Tooling is such that future releases could incorporate the later rear safety valve position.

[melmerby]

Over the last 60-odd years I've run unrebuilt "Merchant Navy" models made out of cereal boxes, bashed about plastic kits, repainted Triang and Wrenn BoBs, cut about Hornby West Countries, dubious kits from Millholme and others .....

 

May I say definitively: I can accept a bit of misplaced fairing and wrongly sited safety valves ,just for now! Yes, I really, really can!

When I was still at school (yes we had schools then!) I mounted a Kitmaster WC body on a Triang Princess Victoria chassis! I did use the Kitmaster tender.

 

Keith

 

[ed 66 plant]

I can confirm that the 35028 release in 2016 will be in the condition that she ran in between June 1953 and December 1954 i.e. in Brunswick Green, early crest, minus the front fairings and with the forward sited safety valves.

 

Tooling is such that future releases could incorporate the later rear safety valve position.

Graham----thank you--I now know what little I need to do to convert to 35030 as running in original form,1955-58

much obliged,

Ed

[GeoffBird]

Hallo Graham.  Perhaps you can clear up one other point for me.  The "pictures" on the Hornby Website for both 21C1 and 21C3 both show the cast numberplates on the cabside and "SOUTHERN" plates on the tenderside, whereas only the former ever carried these.  Is this purely a pictorial error on the Website and that the actual modeels will be correct?

[Graham_Muz]

I can confirm that 21C1 and 21C3 will be correctly different and from suitably different tooling.

Only 21C1 will have the cast 'Southern'  and number plates (as only 21C1 and 21C2 had these when first introduced) There were other differences between 21C1 and 21C3 as first introduced, such as the use of Limpet board on 21C3 and small details including the fact that 21C1 only had a front left hand step when introduced (so no posts claiming Hornby have left off the front right step on 21C1 please!) and these details have been taken into account in the tooling.

 

Hornby have on the website currently used the same 3D render image for both versions, at this stage, in the same way that the they have used the same 3D render of the Series 3 for both 35028 and 35023 releases (hence the front fairings being shown as being present for both versions, which I have already clarified in previous posts)

[RFS]

I think the majority of modellers buying any variant of Hornby's MN for their layout will be running it on a "rule 1" basis. My layout is set in early 1959 and Clan Line therefore falls into this category.