BigAndy

Yeah well, the thing is, you can't just run a 47 with coaches behind it - they never ran like that. Those ScotRail MK3a's were only ever used in service, with the DBSO at one end and a 47 at the other. As Roy so rightly points out, the colours are so wrong on the Oxford 3's, that you won't be able to miss it. Fine if you're at home on your own layout and you don't mind woeful innacuracies, but at an exhibition when the whole idea is that the exhibits are showcasing the best in Railway Modelling, it's a big no go. If I witnessed a rake of rtr Oxford 3's, sandwiched between a correct Bachy 47 and a Dbso a the other end, then it would just say to me that the owners/operators of that layout don't care about realism/accuracy or both. The whole idea of a show is to inspire others - how can that be right if big visible clangers are running around said layout? No doubt, Ill get shot down for those comments, but every modeller I've spoken to about these coaches ( and it's a fair few ) all say the same thing. cheers Andy

If you want a Standard to compare with, have a look at one of Bachmann's MK2f's, or the DBSO, or one of their ScotRail 47's...................even in photo's of varying kinds, the Bachy liveries appear correct because they are correct. If someone much cleverer than I could post some shots of RTR Bachmann gear, against the Oxford images, I'm sure all will become magically clear. If anyone wishes, have a look at posts #1243 - #1250 for comparisons of livery, post #1250 being the MK3a I resprayed into ScotRail blue stripe using Precision paints, next to an out of the box Oxford inter-city one........... cheers Andy

As referenced in many, many posts above - the OR shots of their Inter-City liveried versions are exactly the same as the ScotRail shots..........WRONG!!!!! How many times do we have to go over this on this thread? The livery issue has been done to death.........and it's not just the painiting that they've got horribly wrong. Please read through the whole thread on what has been highlighted is wrong with these coaches. Also what has been stated time and again, is that IF you are happy with all these cataclysmic errors on the Oxford Rail MK3a, then carry on and buy them..........noone's stopping you, it's a free country. What I and a plethora of other modellers are not happy about, is the fact that this is a 21st century, supposedly state of the art model, that they have no earthly reason to get any part of wrong. As JDW said, it's plain sloppy to get a whole host of things wrong, when other complanies - a lot smaller than Oxford Rail, prove how right things can be if care and attention is taken. That is what's getting my goat with OR, their lack of care, attention to detail and repeated refusal's to answer reknown modellers questions and offers of advice. Andy

If it's a 120 in 4mm, they could use the 128 as a starting point, bash the mould around a bit.........and voila......close enough innit....i mean a 128 is a DMU after all........don't worry, punters will buy it if we tell 'em it's the Emperors new clothes........sorted. Bacon butty anyone? cheers Andy

Some things are worth waiting for y'know! I take the point of having to wait 5 years, but they're almost here, so why cancel now? I put in a pre-order for two DBSO's but I'm not about to cancel now as they're pretty much around the corner. From what I've seen of these 2f's and the Dbso, at least they're going to be an excellent model and the livery will be spiot on, compared to the Oxford Rail debacle......... cheers Andy

I get what you're saying, but what I meant was that listening and Hearing are two totally different propositions. Maybe OR have listened, but they've not HEARD what the customers are saying - massive difference. If they've listened and completely ignored some sound advice from one of, if not the biggest Model Rail forum out there, then all of those who have taken time to offer some very, very sound and sage advice, have a right to feel slighted and uncared for by a company who we wanted very much, to get it right. They were advised very early on in the original production of the MK3a, that there were several things awry, they didn't hear us. They were advised in vast numbers, that their livery application was blatantly wrong. They didn't hear us. Yes, it's their prerogative as it's their model, but talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face. The fact that there has been a deafening silence on here from them, speaks volumes. Take the lads at Acurascale as a shining example - they have answered every question asked of them on Social Media sites, that's how it's done. For me, it's the perceived arrogance from OR that has got up my nose in that refusal to answer questions on here. Well, you make a bed, you lie in it. As far as I'm concerned, the Oxford Rail MK3a is a good aid to scratchbuilding and improving but for many who don't wish to dip and strip a brand new rtr model, I feel very sorry for them. For those happy to settle for what OR are throwing at you, as I've said before, fill yer boots. cheers Andy

I'm pretty sure it's not the price that's putting everyone off, or the fact that they are 'good value' - I'm afraid they aren't good value at all, they're very wrong on lots of fronts. Plus, it's not as simple as keep hold of your Lima/Hornby ones........they're Mk3's ( HST MK3's), these are loco hauied 3a's - a different animal. The huge inadequacies of these coaches has been covered in depth earlier in this thread, so there is zero point in going over it all again. There have been a plethora of pleas to OR about their stubborn refusal to listen to the modelling world in general, they have been emailed countless times and have been spoken to at exhibitions (notably ModelRail Scotland at Glasgow) about all the slip ups.....................and they're still not listening now. I would have thought that OR would want to gain as many sales as possibly through this model, but they have cetainly shot themselves in the foot big time by not listening to some sage advice. cheers Andy

As that nice Mr Bendall has posted them, I would imagine that he has taken the shots and if that's the case, he doesn't take bad photos, the livery is damn well bl**dy wrong again. Don't know why I wasted my time in asking them to reconsider, both on here, in person at Glasgow and NOT listen to the so called expert who is advising them on livery. Even on a badly taken photograph, it is easy to tell whether the correct shading of the paintwork is somewhere near - those photos are not badly enough taken to distort any paint shading. To say I'm dissapointed and even, yes, mildly angry that Oxford Rail have been extremely badly advised and have been totally taken in by the guy 'advising' them on livery, is an understatement. The fact that the upper grey is far too dark and the lower light grey, errr far too light, then it also compounds the blue stripe being wrong - which no doubt it is. If these are final decorated examples, there is also no attempt at reproducing the alluminium finish around the window frames, which was a hallmark of these Mk3's. Poor, poor and poor again. I wonder if Bachmann will pick up and seize the moment to produce a correctly dimensioned MK3a ( unlike the OR version) and also a correctly liveried one at that ( unlike the OR version ) to match there 47's and DBSO? I'm off to bang my head several times on the house wall for a bit - that is easier than trying to get Oxford Rail to ignore the ..............personage who shall remain nameless, who keeps ruining their mk3's. Bye Andy

Hello. With regards to platform heights, there are wildly different examples around the whole rail network - however, from the official Standard Structure Gauge information diagram, the correct height from the "top of rail level to the surface of the platformed area should be - 940mm" That translates to 37" in old money and just under a metre in new. Scale wise in 4mm, it calculates to a smidgeon over 12mm from rail height to platform surface. I think the Peco platforms and their separate walling allows for some sort of track support - more than likely their own underlay. Personally, I've laid all the trackwork on Glasgow Queen Street down onto cork tiles, so when I've been looking at using some of the Peco concrete platform walling, I've had to trim the bottom of it down by a couple of mm, to get the right height. It's fairly easy to cut down using a small saw, but I used my Dremmel with a plastic cutting blade - pretty easy to do and saves a load of time on scratch building. I did also measure a prototype on the network and that worked out to be bang on 3ft, so I reckon you would be somewhere near around those measurements. I have seen photos, as no doubt most of us have, of platforms in various parts of the country, where steps are needed to get into a train, so it's always well worth visiting the prototype or looking at photos to gain an impression of platform height. Hope this helps cheers Andy

The original Hornby MK2's - as you're using - are actually a pretty good shape considering the age of them. I went to all sorts of sad lengths to bring one up to modern standards, and once done so sit alongside todays offerings very nicely. It matters not one jot that you have limited resources, at least you are prepared to do some modelling and should be lauded by all for that. Keep going and good luck. cheers Andy

So looking forward to this years EM North. Always a cracking do, plenty of banter and a laugh...........PLUS! I've had the honour of being invited back again this year with me plastic abuse roadshow....ahem...(Demo of modelling the fleet so far for Glasgow Queen St (EM). Bring it on. cheers Andy

Couldn't agree more with these sentiments. If OR do in fact read these threads on the forum.......................DO NOT LISTEN TO THAT PERSON WHO IS FEEDING YOU THE WRONG INFORMATION ON LIVERIES!!!!!!!!! Please listen to the guys on here who actually KNOW what they're talking about! Bachmann have actually got their Executive Light Grey and Executive Dark grey spot on - you need to match their shades exactly. It's quite simple otherwise - YOUR COACHES WILL NOT BE COMPATIBLE TO RUN WITH BACHMANNS 47'S OR THEIR DBSO. It's really in your hands OR, I would hate for a manufacturer, who is prepared to spend huge sums of money on developing what could be a great model, crash and burn because they have listened to the wrong person. cheers Andy

I would like to think that OR will have listened to the majority of modellers who know what they're talking about - particularly after the Glasgow show, and not the 'expert' who advised them so wrongly with the Inter City livery of the first batch. I wondered for a long time who that 'expert' was..............and I now know after said 'expert' let it slip in a conversation I was party to. All I will say is that it doesn't surprise me in the least that OR were led completely down the wrong path. For everyone's sake, but most importantly OR's, I sincerely hope that they've got it right this time. cheers Andy

I visited Friday and enjoyed myself that much, I stayed until the very end, when I was politely booted out by security! This was my first visit to this event and I just have to doff my cap in the direction of the organisers and in general to the Railway staff of the GC. They worked tirelessly all day to ensure that the real things went like clockwork. The marquees at Quorn were just vast, and I dont think that there is anything to compare for sheer quantity outside of the Warley show at the NEC, when you add the exhibits at the other stations. It was wonderful to be able to wander about and hop on/off trains as I wished - could there be a more suitably brilliant location for a model railway exhibition? Add to that there was also the bar at Quorn serving some lovely crafted beer, that I thought I'd achieved Nirvana! cheers Andy

For many years, I have always compared Railway Modelling to Art in conversations. The word 'Art' has an infinite meaning to millions of people, many will agree with each other whereas small minorities will find and achieve 'Art' in their own imaginings. Personally, i would describe the word 'Artist' as to someone who can draw/paint a picture that when you look at it, you can hardly tell whether it's a photo or a drawing. That to me is fine art. I had the honour, before retiring, of working with a chap who is quite simply one of the best 'Artists' I have ever seen. Of course, he is 'just' an amateur, but to view his pencil drawings of wildlife etc, you would swear blind that it was a black and white photo - that's how good he is - he has also completed various portraits of famous people..........it's not often that I'm lost for words, but that is how I felt when viewing his work. Just Amazing. Myself, i have always attmepted to achieve this level of realism in my modelling. I am trying to recreate the real thing in miniature, so I will got to whatever lengths my skills will allow in order to try and achieve this. As per drawing and Painting, there are millions of people with a wide range of skills and so long as they are happy achieving whatever they set out to do, then that is great. Model Railway exhibitions reflect Art exhibitions. There may well be layouts not to your tastes, or not up to the skill level of another layout........there are also those layouts that indeed can be related to 'fine art' - those are the layouts on these forums which gain the most plaudits it would seem - the likes of 'The World's End' , P4 New Street et al. These are the layouts that inspire others to have a go. Somone who has the traditional 8x4 isn't going to be able to recreate those vast masterpieces, but as per the drawing/painting version of Art, if it gets people into the hobby to 'have a go', then that can only be a good thing. cheers Andy

Look forward to seeing you again Paul. There's two things good and bad for you this coming weekend...............the first is that young Fraser will be "helping" you, but the good to outweigh that, is I'm relieving him of his HST set and the charter rake for use on Glasgow Queen St, so you won't have to tell him to leave it all in his stock box! Every cloud and all that..... I'm planning on being there Friday, so see you then. Cheers Andy

Just been on your club website and we're not down on the list of Demo's!!!!! Inform Mr Roberts I shall be taking him to task the next time I see him! cheers Andy

Good choice Oxford. A mate of mine when we were all about 17, had a Brown Maxi.............it was Bl**dy awful!!!! cheers Andy

I model 1988, and it is a problem finding true 1:76 scale cars for that era. Oxford are producing more, but it seems to me that whenever they do release something good it's always one of the top end models - such as the Astra GTE, an ordinary bog standard Astra would be nice - same goes for their the Golf too. In 1988, I got my first car - a Mk3 Cortina 2000E. It was a 1976 model and lasted me about 18 months before I traded it in for a Ford Orion GL - A reg it was, which was brand new in 84. Also, have a look on Shapeways site - someone on there has done an Austin Maestro, plus the van version as well, and they look very nice. Don't know if there's any other car makes on there though. cheers Andy

Saw the layout for the first time at Derby Mick, had a bit of trouble getting a vantage spot though! Testament to your reputation that though and it's great to see all those Airfix/Dapol/Hornby Mk2's all detailed up - shows what can be done with them. Me and our crew will be there Saturday, so I'm hoping to be able to get a prolonged stay in front of DML this time! cheers Andy

Hi Jeremy, If you want to build an 89, KevPeo of this Parish scratch built one in 4mm many moons ago, and as far as I am aware he still runs it on 'Coppell'. I remember him telling me at the time, that he was going for the World record for how many sad bits of scratch detailing he could fit on one loco! May be worth dropping him a PM for any guidelines/pitfalls etc etc cheers Andy

Being a child of the sixties ( very late sixties I may add!!) and living in Macclesfield, I have full and fond memories of the 81's through to the 87's in the 1970's and 80's. We got them all through Macc, including the 304's and 310's on local services terminating at Macc but also through to Stoke-On-Trent. The only down side was that we never really got much freight at Macclesfield, however, if memory serves, I think we did used to get a Healey Mills mixed freight in the early evenings, but where it origianted never really interested me at 10 years old back then. On the plus side, we did used to get the drags through Macc, mainly on a Sunday when the power was off. Anything could turn up on the drags back then. Mainly 40's and 47's, but I once saw a Peak through Macc and on one very special occasion, I saw a 25 drag a dead leccy plus 12 out of Platform 13 at Man Picc on a Sunday! Nuts and bolts were flying everywhere from the roof of the rat as it shifted that lot up the gradient out of Picc! Good times. cheers Andy

For the record, I didn't say I was waiting for somone to produce a 107........I'm quite happy to produce my own thanks! As per Clive, I'm going to be using the Hornby 110 as the donor unit - plenty of cutting around, filing, gluing and filling to do. I'm concerned that this thread is starting to drift off somewhat from the 117, so that's my last post about 107's/108's on here........... cheers Andy

By that then, Bachmann should release the 85 but renumbered as an 81 "coz an 85 looks something like an 81"............... because it's a DMU, doesn't mean that one particular class of unit should be dressed up to look like another, when it blatantly isn't. If some are happy with that, then fill yer boots, personally I want a model to look like what it's supposed to be and there are plenty of modellers out there who would agree. It's a matter of subject research - go and look at photo's or study the real things. cheers Andy

At the risk of going , I think Heljan have turned their backs on the OO market, especially after the debacle that was the 86......and the 58.....oh and the Western........the 33 came out great, but that was all down to Phil Sutton's hard work. I would prefer to see someone like Charlie and Aaron at Realtrack do the 120, they would make a superb job of it. cheers Andy