woodenhead

Greater use of existing alignments creates less need to compulsory purchase and less need to issue concrete plans right now

If they are actually looking at the CLC route through Warrington to resolve that conundrum then potentially they will be looking at the old M&SLR through Ashburys, Gorton,, Fairfield and Guide Bridge to get the trains from city to country in the least disruptive manner - it's also pretty straight. It was reduced to two tracks late 70s, plenty of space for a commuter route and an express route. From there it depends what they want in a new alignment to Standedge - Micklehurst loop anyone??

No it wont be complete four tracking, too many obstacles but there will be additional tracks where possible and required:

When they eased out the curves east of Standedge by reducing the tracks it was a cost based decision - didn't need all four tracks and it was a cheap method to raise speeds. Here now they have an opportunity perhaps to do some engineering to ease out the curves, whether that is what they have in mind I don't know. No mention of the 'new' route in any blurb so they are not looking to reinstate (yet).

@APOLLO You're looking at it through the wrong eyes, as reasons not to. That level crossing to the houses, it's not the only route, a lot of the industry is now gone or going - it's a viable route, it doesn't have to be TGV straight. It is also the least impacting whilst giving benefit to Warrington and Liverpool. I'm quite pleased to see some plans coming forward that look at the topology and don't simply want to run a bulldozer through a city.

Given the actual logic being applied here to re-use old lines, I do also wonder if four tracking the route from Ardwick through past Guide Bridge may also be part of the plans for the Manchester to Standedge new route - that would have least impact on the city centre (which echos the reasons given for building a combined surface NPR/HS2 station). And of course if you get to Stalybridge there is the old route to Standedge from there too with a bit of bridge building, though I expect a new line may be more straightforward Some might now be thinking, what about the rest of Woodhead, but I don't think that is still in anyone's plans.

Useful, they will be electrifying the Warrington Central route then

@APOLLO I am guessing the alignment may suit, but the engineering to deliver it will resolve many of the issues - a bit of straightening, bridges to replace level crossings and a spot of compulsory purchasing where necessary. I don't think they expect this line to be mega fast, just faster and less congested than the current routes - thank goodness they haven't selected the Warrington Central route as a fast route.

I don't think many of us expected it to be delivered as promised and I actually quite like the new proposals. For me one of the biggest recognitions is that a Parkway station at Toton really was a fudge because they wanted to please both Derby and Nottingham, actually p*ssed both off I bet. DB won't be pleased, they still have to dispose of all that land that no-one wants again.

You'd think that wouldn't you. I think the problem is that to drive a car you are taught rules, reminded you are driving a motorised death machine and there is clear seperation of pedestrians and cars (usually). Bikes, you just need to learn to balance and you are off, a lot of cyclists will act just as pedestrians do in crowded situations, you plough on through because if you stop to give way then everyone takes advantage. Bikes and pedestrians often share the same space making it even harder. I was told once, when walking in London, don't look ahead, look down, other pedestrians who are looking ahead will then move around you and it works

Thanks. The old route after Warrington heads towards Lymm which is close to where HS2 branches so at least some of the alignment will be used to get out of Warrington and past the M6. Getting east out of Manchester, well there is one alignment going east with space land alongside it, used to go by the name of the M&SLR. That would be a open route and then a proper new route to meet with Standedge once out past Guide Bridge.

Four Tracking to Leeds The new alignment stops short of Huddersfield at Standedge

Have you been to Amsterdam, the bike riders are dangerous silent wheeled death machines in the night. Also, they don't have traditional breaks on most bikes, they brake by back pedalling, so letting tourists loose on them adds to the terror they bring those on foot. I've contemplated using them, one of the hotels even had some to lend, but I did not like the idea of trying to navigate around in them. There is a major park, in parts it was like Piccadilly circus in the rush hour but all bikes.

Looking at this map of the Liverpool to Leeds proposal I think they are going to retain the present HS2b proposed alignment and use what is currently the route past the old Fiddlers Ferry powerstation, go under Warrington Bank Quay (where there was a station) and use the old Latchford-Lymm alignment to reach the HS2 route to Manchester. That would be my choice anyway

Looking at this map of the Liverpool to Leeds proposal I think they are going to retain the present HS2b proposed alignment and use what is currently the route past the old Fiddlers Ferry powerstation, go under Warrington Bank Quay (where there was a station) and use the old Latchford-Lymm alignment to reach the HS2 route to Manchester. That would be my choice

Standedge is what happens, big old set of four tunnels through the Pennines. Given there are two spare bores, they may simply be able to use the existing tunnels to get the line through and onto a realigned but back to four track route through to Leeds. It's not actually a bad thing, boring through soil/chalk down south is one thing, boring through rock in the Pennines is quite different.

It's interesting the Natwest began with Mastercard, from their original setting up of the 'Access' car with Lloyds - remember those cards, managed out of Southend on Sea, now it has completely returned to the fold. It used to be quite simple Visa was Barclays & TSB and I think Bank of Scotland, Mastercard (Access) was Natwest, Midland and Lloyds, then changes in banking law allowed to offer both types of credit card and some did. I used to work for one of the companies, I remember when I first was able to compare the chargeback rules for Visa and Mastercard, I always felt Mastercard had the edge over it's merchants than Visa, small nuances that allowed us to Chargeback easier on disputed Mastercard transactions i.e. more in favour of the customer's interests than the merchant's.

Public transport is structured at Heathrow to support masses of people moving from London, if people in the East Midlands or further north need to use it, they would prefer you used a feeder service from a local airport such as East Midlands or Manchester Airport, or got the train to London and then a train out to Heathrow. With HS2 the changeover can take place at Old Oak Common using the lifts from the lower level HS2 platforms up to the GWML platforms above where a waiting Heathrow Express/Crossrail service will whisk you to the airport.

Whilst I am feeling that the way HS2 has been structured has allowed a lot of wriggle room to cancel elements when politically expedient, actually, a lot of what has been proposed is positive. Full electrification of the Standedge route MML electrification to Derby, Nottingham and Sheffield Route enhancements in the Peak district A new route from Warrington to Standedge to improve journey times (think this may be a change in HS2 route as well to save money with a two for one win). Four tracking east of Standedge Extra capacity on services to Derby, East Midlands and Nottingham via HS2 services Potential to enhance capacity from Toton up to Leeds in the future or implementation of HS2 Eastern leg in full Whilst building HS2 is a career making job for the civil engineering teams due to the time it will take to build, for those of us who want to use the trains then something delivered earlier which improves the experience has to be looked on positively. Pity no mention of the Oxford Road corridor, we only wanted a couple of extra platforms at Piccadilly and a lengthend Oxford Rd, but I think instead it will have to wait for the digital signalling promised for the Liverpool to Leeds route instead.

At a General Election no doubt

This is the current HS2 route from Crewe to Manchester, I think the 'new' Warrington to Stalybridge via the Airport and Manchester is a revised HS2 route that also supports higher speed Liverpool to Leeds services The HS2 route as shown doesn't support heading east, it faces west, it also doesn't suit any acceleration of the Liverpool to Leeds services. So would the Government leave HS2B western leg alone with the same routing, or might they incorporate it into a Liverpool to Manchester route? If the latter then it means investment on the Widnes route to Warrington and a spur to connect with a HS2 route from Crewe to connect to the airport and then Manchester but if they leave HS2b as is and build a new route then the HS2 station in Manchester will still need to become a through station with another new line out east towards Stalybridge and Standedge (where the new route ends)

It's where the Government buried HS3

It's not a tax thing, it is what is called Interchange, it's fees that Visa adds when processing transactions, they are higher when the card is issued outside of the EU and the merchant is in the EU. Before Brexit, we were all in the same Interchange zone so the fees were standardised across Europe, we outside of it now so higher fees. I guess there is an element of tax avoidance as they use Luxemborg as their processing centre rather than a UK on, but that existed before Brexit and they clearly don't want to have a UK based processing centre either which would add cost and complexity.

There is also the Cumbrian coast route from Carlisle, never going to see electrification.

If you are all really that fed up with Graham Farish (and Dapol), perhaps you need to consider changing scale - Accurascale have lots of new locos coming out though many are possibly sold out. It's hard to know what Farish are currently planning as the new approach to announcements means that we only get to know about them when the are ready as shown by the 00 scale 47, we can probably make educated guesses though. I still think you also need to consider the current world situation, there is a pandemic, it is causing shortages of raw materials impacting many industries yet somehow Bachmann are expected to be flooding the market with stock for N gauge which is a fraction of the size of it's OO scale market.