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The PO Wagons of Somerset has a good 'official' side on view of a Hard Stone Firms Ltd, Bath 3 plank 10t wagon on p.185 but the reference is for Edward Free of Hallatrow. I loved the Corsham photo in the link that you provided as it also shows wagons from Kilmersdon Colliery and Camerton Collieries as well as the Midland wagons, etc. Might be a useful link if you could also post it in the S&DJR circa 1902 thread, please, Compound. Regards Ian.

Yes, this is the cover photo of Kelham's volume, nicely enlarged. It shows two of the lettering formats, the difference being Huish or Foxcote being applied on the second plank down on the left. Kilmersdon colliery's wagons were similarly lettered except for a large K replaced the W on the door. I'm finding the PO wagon subject rather absorbing at the moment having built some 5 plank kits recently thinking that they would be fairly common representatives on the line for quarries and collieries ....only to find that the quarries mainly used 4 planks ....and the collieries 4 and 6 planks ! I've spent rather a lot of time recently trying to find correct liveries for the type of wagons that I've built that did or could have travelled along the the S&DJR, Garners book helps point me in the right direction though as a starting point. Regards, Ian.

Austin p.18 fourth wagon back is a Writhlinton colliery wagon, probably a 4 plank going by the top plank lettering (5 planks in this livery have an unlettered top plank) as seen in Richard Kelham's PO Wagons of Somerset.

Thanks again Compound, the two lower photographs in the linked article appear in the "Portrait of the Pines" book. A later 1920's formation would suit my needs so with a bit of the dreaded 'modellers licence' I am looking at MR and Periods 1 & 2 LMS stock kits but whilst there are quite a few in the range of Worsley Works, not all mentioned in this thread are available; by the way I hope I'm not hijacking your OP circa 1902 theme or leading it too far away ....but I for one am finding all of the information coming out from across all of the years very interesting. Regards, Ian.

Very useful info for me personally Compound, as I was only yesterday trying to work out possible coach diagrams for a 1920's 'Pines Express' in 3mm scale based on a table on p.70 of Stephen Austin's other book 'Portrait of the Pines Express' which gives examples of typical train formations. He gives as a mid-week Pre-war example: BCK-TK (Brad-Bmth)-BCK-RCO-RT-CK-TK-BTK (Man-Bmth)-BCK-TK (Lpl-Bmth)-BCK (Lpl-Sou) On the previous page he mentions that the minimum would be a 7 coach train with one BCK being used for each of the portions from Bradford and Liverpool (the TK's being the strengtheners) and a 4 coach set from Manchester which could give a formation of possibly BCK (Brad-Bmth)-BCK-RCO-RT-CK (Man-Bmth)-BCK (?) .....Which almost fits your identifications ! As we have previously mentioned regarding photographers mid-week occupations ....a Saturday working is likely "when there were no through coaches from Liverpool, their place being taken by further accommodation for Manchester, often using vestibule composites or thirds, to make up the full load, so that such a train had fewer brakes in it." (Which might help identify the last coach as a third or something else.) Your information will help me to order some more appropriate kits from the Worsley Works lists although the 2 Bain clerestory kits I already have are for a CK and a TK, so may or may not be useful. Many thanks, Ian.

That's given me a dillema ...I'm on 12hr nights that W/end and had decided that I would have to miss the show this year....but now I know that this will be there it looks like I'll just have to have a 3 hour sleep (same as today ) and come the couple of miles down the road for a butchers. No pressure Tim ! Regards, Ian.

Hello Compound, Glad that you're not disappointed with your purchase. Very interested in your identification of the above coaches, even to my untrained eye (no pun intended) I could see the differences between the 1st coach and the other 3 coaches on p.58, although I suppose it depends how much you read into the caption. Any thoughts as to what livery the S&D coach is carrying, the photo having been taken in the 1930's ? The ex.LSWR coaches look to me to be in a dark olive green so I'm thinking that the S&D coach would be still in blue but with Southern branding, although I can't see anything other than the door Class numbers and what could be the 'new' coach number between the 2nd and 3rd compartments. There is also, I presume, a wrongly stated comment regarding the "ancient S&D coach" mentioned in the caption for the picture at the top of p.37, going by the date, roof rainstrips and coach length ? Regards, Ian.

Are you putting in the small rectangular grills above each door and the other similar one a little further along ? (Assuming that you are modelling the loco in the photo.) Amazed at how quickly and cleanly you've rectified the beading issue, looks great. Regards, Ian.

Hello Compound, I don't think that you'd be too dissappointed, there are more than 50 decent photos of S&DJR liveried locos, some on trains, plus many other photos taken in both the LMS and BR periods, so plenty for the eye to absorb and definately not presented in the Ivo Peters style of books. Physically it's more in keeping size wise with Middleton Press style books, approx. 110 pages and good cleanly printed B&W photos. I like it, although as ever I can never seem to quite be able to identify some of the PO wagons in the period goods trains ....with the exception of the Bolsover coal wagons. I'm sure that you could provide us with a lot of information regarding the different passenger vehicles shown which is not my strong point. Regards, Ian.

I did think that the picture in the OP bore striking similarities to 4 pictures shown in S&DJR A View from the Past, by Stephen Austin (Ian Allen) which are all said to have been taken around Blandford in the late 1890's. Pages 19, 71 and 2 on p.77 for those who are interested, part of the LGRP / Bucknall collection. Regards, Ian.

Further to Jerry's useful comments and excellent photos above regarding the difficulties in getting the correct livery / time period I'm just enjoying reading Footplate Over The Mendips by Peter Smith but have picked up on the following : On p.22 he quotes the renowned Donald Beale as remembering vividly when Bulldog No.66 returned from Highbridge after her rebuild in 1920, saying " I can see her now as she dropped down on number four ash pit road at Bath shed, in her spotless coat of blue paint." Several pages later there is a photo of said No.66 at Wellow (allegedly) taken in 1920 but in what looks like black livery ! Reading further into Jerry's comments (if I've understood them correctly) it's possible that this photo is actually a post 1923 picture as the power classification can be seen on the cab side. As regards my own Bulldog No.64 dillema I've decided to try and over spray the incorrect Black livery with Blue ....and if it doesn't look right then I will just strip it all off and start again, the front buffer beam needs redoing anyway as it took a dive off of a shelf and needed both front buffers replacing (my own fault !) Regards, Ian.

Just to add to the possibilities I've just noticed, whilst watching John Betjamin's "Lets Imagine" for the umpteenth time, that there is a left handed ducketed version of the exSouthern type brake van in unfitted grey on one of the goods trains as it leaves Highbridge heading for the Wharf, with reference to Coombe Martin's post (see p.1) the Bachmann model is also Ok. Regards, Ian.

Jerry, Thanks for the photo of 64 in lined blue in the 1920's ....I've just finished my on / off 5 year build of her in 3mm scale ....and painted her Black ......with soldered on numerals !! Regards, Ian (the devastated.)

OPC's 'The West Highland Mallaig Extension in BR Days' by Tom Noble has photos of these wagons at Mallaig and Corpach (p.61) on trial in March 1987. The blurb states that this was a trial by the Icescot consortium involving eleven of these (or very, very similar) wagons working between Mallaig and Grimsby via the 06.01 Mallaig Jun. to Mossend Speedlink service. The trial ran until mid-summer but then falted due to issues at the Icelandic end of the operation. Fifteen of the wagons were then stored at Mallaig Junction Yard, Fort William. (Which is where my interest in them stems from.) I'd be very interested to see how you get on with making these, please, as I've kept a loose eye out on the continental 'N' gauge market to see anybody releases a 'usable' offering, there are some Interfrigo vans available but nothing that I've seen so far that's a near enough likeness (I'm aware of the scale difference.) Hope this of use, Regards, Ian.

Interesting that the 4F with 11 empty minerals at Shepton Mallet is heading away from the Somerset coalfield ...and not towards it ? Nice web page, thanks. Regards, Ian.

According to Mr. Magg's S&D Life on the ...etc ....(p.155/6) an empty oil tank was one of the 37 wagons involved in the tragic accident at Bath on 20th November 1929, along with 32 loaded P.O wagons, 3 empty wagons and a 20T brake van hauled by 7F No.89 with an incapcitated crew. So far I've only found 5 photos of the incident although the London press photographers rushed to the scene apparently. So far I've not come up with more than one non milk tank wagon being seen a train at any one time ....which suits my modelling time constraints and nothing South of Templecombe yet, either. Hope this all of interest to somebody ? Regards, Ian.

Found it ....but it but totally the wrong train description. P.127 Radstock Coal &Steam Vol.1 a nice close view of a Black cross strapped tank, No.54, in a 1966 view of a Hymek hauled train at Radstock station heading for Bristol, frustratingly I can't make out the wording on the side of the tank which is very nearly legible .....any ideas, please ? I also managed to miss another tank wagon in the very last northbound freight train to Bath from Writhlington (p.122) which a shows silver/grey tank (660 or 860 ?) being hauled by 8F 48760. Interestingly I've also noticed some GRAIN wagons in the sidings at Radstock in Vol.2 p.152, two steel hopper type and one wooden van with twin roof doors ....any thoughts anybody ?? Regards, Ian.

A few more glimpses.... P.80 The S&D Then &Now (Mac Hawkins) - Cross strapped tank wagon in the freight train used during the 1954 BTF film about 'Emergency Single Line Working.' I've re-watched this but the tank wagon can only really be seen near the end of the film when the train is being banked and the camera is looking down the train from the roof of the banker. Same publication p.220 a smallish tank wagon in a short train consisting of a 6 wheel parcels van, (possibly) an S&D carriage, tank wagon and a corrugated ended van all sat in the bay platform at Wells Priory Road station in 1934. Historical Survey of the S&D (Oxford Pub) - p.60 some sort of tank wagon just visible in the background above the platform canopy at Wincanton. P.114 Black cross strapped tank wagon with white lettering (possibly No.42 ?) sat in a siding behind Highbridge East 'C' signal box in 1966. P.124 and p.126 two more individuals in the oil siding at Wells, one black and one grey (with a not quite legible number 2xxx) both undated. P.117 in the Norman Lockett Archive shows a Black tank wagon (484 ?) in the Midland Bridge Road Goods Depot at Bath 1958. The Gas tank wagon mentioned in an earlier post is quite clearly seen still in use at Bath Green Park in 1954 on p.38 of Brian Macdermott's Modellers Guide to the S&D. (NB Maybe an LMS version ?) Frustratingly I came across another photo in a book last week showing a similar looking cross strapped wagon to the one in the BTF film out on the line (in a train possibly crossing the under repair Bath Road viaduct in 1946) ....but can't now find it again to record here ! ....nearly 51 and losing it already !! Regards, Ian.

Apologies to everyone who has replied so far as I have been on holiday since I posted the request. Just before I went I managed to come up with 4 photos myself, although one is the same 1949 image as shown above in the post by RailWest (thanks Chris and Becasse) as seen in Middleton Press's Burnham to Evercreech Junction book, image 93, there is also a glimpse through the shed in photo 94 as well as either a van or 'shed' with the ESSO emblem on it's end. This would probably tie in with Phil's Dad's photo above. I had also found the reference and photo to the Read and Son's tar tank(s) noted again by Phil. Photo 91 in Middleton Press's Bournemouth to Evercreech Junction shows a single black fuel tanker (?) on the long, curved siding at Templecombe shed in amongst a line of wagons which includes PO opens and large lettered company vans so I can 'hopefully assume' this undated photo is from the 1920/30 period. The only detail that I can make out is a white star on the bottom right hand side of the tank cylinder, although there is possibly a letter 'B' and the number 1682 on the solebar but this is just a guess on my part. I've managed to borrow a copy of Tourret's Petroleum Rail Tank Wagons so I'll see if I can verify that. The 4th photo I've found shows the end of tank wagon 1201 at Bath Junction in 1953 (p.102 in Ian Allan's S&DJR View From The Past by Stephen Austin) but again I don't know whether this wagon had actually worked over the S&DJR route or not. It seems that tank wagons were rare beasts on the line (excepting milk and wartime movements / storage) but I've got something to look at modelling now in regard of the kits that I've been given (there are some ESSO transfers in the box) ....I think a Read and Son's tar tank and an all black petrol tank may also appear....and just for 'Rule 1' devilment ....a model of John Robinson & Co's Seed Crushers of Bristol tank wagon No.3 as shown on the cover of PO Wagons of Bristol & District by Ian Pope for no other reason than I used to give a lift to a now deceased fellow 3mm Society member of the same name. Thanks again for all of the contributions. Regards, Ian.

Thanks AMJ, I'm going to try and do a walkabout sometime next month (with the dogs and some maps this time) so the pointers that you have given me are very useful as is the doctored google map. Last time that I went through the area I found it quite difficult to envisage the area as it had been with all of the 'new' motorways that have been built since closure ...I'll try again, I'm also now armed with more of The Godfrey Maps that cover the area in the early 1900's. I'll buy an 'Old Glory' magazine next week on holiday and see if there are any contact details for Mr. Rayner and as a member of LMRS there's always a chance that I may get to speak with Don Townsley. Mr. Franks mentions in his book that drivers proceeded with caution on the line due to the Charlesworth's engines popping up unexpectantly, as illustrated by the accident between a J52 and the NCB's 'Joe.' Thanks once again for the extra info, it all helps. Regards, Ian.

Does anybody know of any photos of tank wagons, other than milk tanks, out running on the S&DJR, please ? Ideally I would like something in the 1920s to 30s but would be just as interested in anything later. I know both Emborough Quarries and Read & Son owned tank wagons for carrying tar (S&DJR Loco and Rolling Stock Registers) but did Shell, Esso or BP tanks make an appearance in ones or twos ....or maybe (hopefully) John Robinson & Co Seed Crushers of Bristol ? I have photos of some of these wagons in my collection of wagon books. I have been 'given' a box with 4 tank barrels and a couple of chassis kits in it so am currently looking out for suitable potentials to model, although I am aware that the subject looks like a bit of a minefield ...hence the desire for some photos. Regards, Ian.

The May and current June editions of Bylines have a 2 part article on Seaton Delaval Colliery Steam under the title of Not Such a 'Terrible Place' which includes some very good photos of some of the motive power and a brief history of the line. Regards, Ian.

Many thanks, Jack, that's just saved me an awful lot of work and time as I was contemplating recently going through all of my S&D books and listing the locos (already bought a nice notebook for this purpose) so that I could compare it with locos seen around the heart of the West Riding (Leeds, Bradford and Wakefield areas anyway) to see if there were any suitable suspects for 'joint' modelling. I model in 3mm scale and have a layout of Masbury on the S&DJR but am also planning a WR loco shed type layout, using Ilkley shed trackplan as a rough starting point (already have an aquired model of the engine shed.) So far I am only aware of Ivatt 41241 which transferred to Skipton to end out it's BR days before becoming a household celebrity on the K&WVR, but I shall be looking at the list of the 9F's and a few of the Standards very closely. Kind regards, Ian.

Hello Dave , Thanks for the excellent photos, I really enjoy the memories of the eras that they often show. Kind regards, Ian.

PS - I've quoted the dates for Albany (1916) and Albany II (1894) as referenced on the Leeds Engine Info website but I would have thought personally that Albany would have come before Albany II ??