03060

Fort William - Mallaig Diesel Freight inc Engineers (1980's) 27 111 (BR Blue), UUV x15, CAO C/larich L - Cph 06/80 37 112 (BR Blue + Y ends) VBA, VDA x3, OAA, VDA, OAA x2, VDA, OBA x3 (all Brown) Cph - Cadder Yd 06/81 37 021 (BR Blue) OWV x18 Cadder Yd - Cph 06/81 20 114 (BR Blue), PRA x3 (1 sheeted), OBA (Brown), OCA (Red), OBA (Brown) (all sheeted) Mg Jnc - WT Corpach 8/83 37 188 'Jimmy Shand' (L/L) CCT (Blue, DB 977222), TTV x3 (Grey, pos 56960/1/2), FA99905 exLMS Bke Tourist (diag.2161/lot1506), FA99906 exGWR Bke (ex diag.K44/PP026A), 99903 exLMS TO (lot.1401 diag.PP023A) (all Red/cream) - Fisons W/K train* FW - Mg - FW 31/5/85 37 409 (L/L) + 20 213 (BR Blue), VGA, VBA Mg Jnc - WT Cph 14/7/86 20 048 (BR Blue) VDA (R/g), VDA x2 (Bn), VDA (R/g), VGA x2 (R/s), VDA (R/g), VGA x4 (R/s), VDA (R/g) WT Cph - Mg Jnc (M/end) 4/8/86 37 402 'Oor Wullie' (L/L) FW Bogie Tool Van (Yellow) TNaF - WT Cph 20/5/87 37 425 'SRMcA / C Bob' (L/L) IIB (I/F Fish) x7 Mg - Mg Jnc 23/5/87 37 407 'Loch Long' (L/L) Seacow x2 (Green), Bogie flat (?) (Carrying x2 m/c's) Mg - Mg Jnc 1/7/87 37 401 'MQofS' (IC) (B/grey SRb) BSO x2, TSO FW - Mg - FW 6/9/88 WT Cph Shunter exBR 08 077 (Blue) 5/3/85 (*Fisons Weedkilling Train extra info added after consulting Paul Bartlett's excellent website.)

I wonder if any body can point me in the right direction of a good view of the rear of the original 10 (J23) J50/1 locos, please, with their extended coal rail bunkers as I'm trying to work out the exact shape. I can find several good side views and one reasonable 3/4 view but no end on views; I can't decide whether or not the upper rails are vertical, angled in a 'V' shape or just flared out at the top. I've got several sources, Yeadon's register, Locos Illustrated, RCTS, GN Engine Shed 3 and several general books on railways in the West Riding but still can't find a definitive view, the best one is of 68898 at Osset in Railways Around Wakefield and Pontefract but even from this I can't tell properley....the LH side looks angled, whereas the RH side looks vertical which I'm sure that they will both be the same in reality. T'internet's not given me any better pictures as of yet either and I only have drawing's of J50/2's. Any help greatfully recieved, Thanks, Ian.

As a Yorkshireman I can appreciate that ! I also found a couple of Minitrix ones in a collection that was passed on to me, I was going to just let them go with along with most of the other stuff but will see how you get on, I'll admit that I've spent more than £50 on B/GF ones recently....but you can never have too many brake vans in my opinion. Looking forward to the rebuild. Regards, Ian. (Correction....I've just found them both in my retained boxes....so I must have been reasonably impressed with them.)

Thanks for the reply Peter, I'll give it a go, it was the shiny plastic bit that bothered me. Admittedly the last ones that I fitted I did use superglue and a trackpin but they were a rush job to get me through a two day exhibition and expect them to fall off at some point. The ones I use I've screwed on but don't particularly care for this method, I've also used Super Steel but I think they also fell off after a while. Regards, Ian.

Any particular reason for Minitrix over the GF offerings, Duncan ? Regards, Ian.

Hello Peter, Interested to see that I'm not the only one using the smaller type of OO couplings, I've managed to screw and then pinned most of mine on so far but am I correct in thinking that yours are stuck on with adhesive, if so what type are you using to get a hopefully permanent joint, please ? Regards, Ian.

Aaagh, that explains why I keep seeing photos of Bolsover colliery wagons in trains running on the Somerset & Dorset, ie running through the heart of the Somerset coalfield. Thankyou for that as it's puzzled me for a while. Regards, Ian.

Is the top floor colouring not just due to it being in the sunlight ? The left hand set of windows on the next floor down also look to be the same colour as the top, the rest of the building being in shadow, which is also evident on the building further to the left. Regards, Ian.

Hello Grahame, I'm finding this thread both informative and inspirational, I started following via the fish van thread as I have the West Highland at heart but have continued having seen your buildings being created. I've just started my much desired and long overdue N gauge WHL layout and was intending to only include the railway related buildings and maybe an odd basic cottage....but now having seen your constructions I'm inspired to try and include more, such as a Lochside hotel at least. I have to say that you are a bit of a modelling machine ! Regards, Ian.

Mine arrived this morning from Amberley ....but it would have been cheaper and quicker from Charlie !

In the early to mid 80's post earlier I have included a Charter train hauled by 37 085 complete with ScotRail liveried DBSO at Arisaig on 2/6/85 which I found in both of the 2 Flikr folders shown here (not sure if I can post a picture of the train or not ?).....does anybody have any more details of this train, please, as I'm slightly intrigued by it. I have a vague recollection of something being mentioned in an old Rail Enthusiast mag of the time but can't find it in my collection of articles. Regards, Ian.

Fort William - Mallaig Diesel Passenger inc Mixed (Mid-Late 1980's) 37 409 (L/L), +6 (B/grey) Mk.2 BFK, Mk.1 SO x2, CK, BSK, SK FW-Mg 21/6/86 37 412 (L/L), +6 (B/grey SRb) Mk.2 BFK, Mk.1 SK x2, (B/grey) SK, (B/grey SRb) BFK, SK FW-Mg 1/8/86 37 402 'Oor Wullie' (L/L), +6 (B/grey) Mk.2 (SRb) BFK, Mk.1 SO, (SRb) SK, BSO, (Teak) GN 807 (?), CR 'Ryl Scot' Saloon (?) FW-Mg 22/5/86 37 412 (L/L) +3 (B/grey) Mk.1 (SRb) TSO, BSOT, Mk.2 (ICSRb) TSO FW-Mg 5/86 37 408 (L/L), +4+3 (B/grey) Mk.2 (ICb) BSK, Mk.1 (SRb) SK, SK, (SRb) SK, (Black) TTA x3 FW-Mg 23/6/86 37 407 'Loch Long' (L/L), +2+2 (B/grey) Mk.1 TSO, BSO, IIB x2 (fish vans) FW-Mg 4/87 37 424 (L/L), +2+1 (B/grey) Mk.2f (ICb) SO, Mk.1 (SRb) TSO, BSO, (Blk) TTA FW-Mg 7/87 37 425 'SRMcA/Concrete Bob' (L/L) +6 (B/grey Mk.2 (SRb) BFK, Mk.1 (SRb) SK, (exFO) SO, SO x3 FW-Mg-FW 14/10/86 37 425 'SRMcA/Concrete Bob' (L/L) +3 (B/grey) Mk.2f (ICb) SO, Mk.1 (SRb) BSK, SK FW-Mg-FW 14/10/86

Hello Rob, I know that I photographed these trains in detail back in the 80's, possibly on prints but most likely on slides, whilst I bought a slide scanner, as with so many other things, I've never got around to doing any (not fond of computers I'm afraid.) I also would love a model of the original Royal Scotsman. Grafar are doing 2 of the Green/Cream coaches this year in N gauge but don't know if they will produce others to make up a 6 coach rake ? Regards, Ian.

Hello John, I'll keep an eye out for these whilst I'm studying photos, you never know. Regards, Ian. (Tom Noble - The WH Mallaig Ext, p.54 ....Mk.1 BSOT ... dog after ScotRail brand (not on door) ...number u/n I'm afraid 31/5/85.) (Tom Noble - p.73 colour photo behind 44767 'George Stephenson' ...SK ? ....25/7/84 ... also p.88/89/91 behind 5407 July and Aug '84 at least 5 coaches + loco with Terriers .... but still no numbers ! ....sorry.)

There were 2 Green and Cream Mk.1 sets used on the Mallaig Extension, one from 1985 and another from 1987 (again there was an overlap) there were differences in the type and painting / branding of these which are discussed in another thread on here. Tom Noble's book details these also. Regards, Ian.

Thanks Rob, with the first detailed post I've sort of taken it up to the introduction of the 37/4's era in 1985, although as you say there is a bit of an overlap. That particular post will get larger but it took me long enough just to work through those as I was reading old magazine articles and trying to pick out the subject matter, I'm currently working my way through Tom Noble's book. I will try not to overload each subject, maybe call it a day when I have approx. 10 representative service trains and some specials or so .....that should be enough for most modellers .....surely ?? Regards, Ian. PS - Have just found my Coaching Stock Recognition (Colin J. Marsden 1983) book in the loft so hopefully I should now get things right ....maybe !

Fort William to Mallaig Diesel Passenger inc Mixed (early-mid 80's) 20 191 (BR Blue), Mk.1 (B/grey) TSO, BFK, TSO FW-Mg 22/06/82 20 148 (BR Blue), Mk.1 (B/grey) BSK, TSO, SK, TTA x2 FW-Mg 03/6/83 27 041 (BR Blue), Mk.1 (B/grey) BSK, SK, Buffet Mg-FW 23/4/80 37 051 (BR Blue), (B/grey) Mk.1 SK, (B/grey ICb) Mk.2 BFK FW-Mg 3/6/81 37 022 (BR Blue), Mk.1 (B/grey) TSO (?), BCK, SK (?) x2 FW-Mg 8/83 37 026 'Loch Awe' (BR Blue), Mk.1 (B/grey) BCK, TSO, SK FW-Mg 8/8/83 37 043 'Loch Lomond' (BR Blue), Mk.1 (B/grey) BFK, SK FW-Mg (u/n) 37 191 'IYY 1985' (L/L), Mk.1 (B/grey SRb) SK x2, BSO (?) Mg-FW 27/5/85 37 112 (BR Blue), (B/grey) Mk.2 BSO, (B/grey SRb) Mk.1 TSO x2 Mg-FW 4/7/85 37 xxx (BR Blue (Y sb hc)), (B/grey) Mk.1 TSO, SK, RMB, SK, BSK Mg-FW u/n pre'85 37 027 'Loch Eil' (L/L), (B/grey SRb) Mk.1 TSO, SK x2, BSO Mg-FW 21/5/85 37 xxx 'u/n' (BR Blue), (B/grey) Mk.1 BSK, SK, TSO, Obs Sal TODM999501 FW-Mg 28/5/84 37 012 'Loch Rannoch' (BR Blue), Mk.1 (B/grey SRb+dog ?) BSOT, (B/grey SRb) SK, Mk.2 (B/grey) BSK, 4 whl bolster, BDA x2 (one with steel plate load) FW-Mg 31/5/85 37 190 (BR Blue), Obs Sal 1998 'Loch Eil', Mk.1 (B/grey) TSO, RMB, SK, BSK, Obs Sal Sc1999 'Lochaber' Mg-FW 9/8/83 37 033 (BR Blue), Mk.1 (G/cream WH/dog/SRb) TSO x2, BSO, TSO x3 FW-Mg-FW 28/5/85 37 011 (L/L) + 37 027 'Loch Eil' (L/L), Royal Train FW-Mallaig-FW (ecs) 6/85 37 111 'LEOB' (L/L) + 37081 'Loch Long' (L/L), Mk.1 (IC) FO, FO IC3132, Buffet IC1667, FO, FO IC3134, (B/grey) RMB, (Pullman) Mk.1 Pullman 1st (?), FK , BFK (Car No.355 ?) SLOA 'The West Highlander' 1/6/85 37 085 (BR Blue), Mk.2 (S/Rail) DBSO, Mk.1 ? (B/grey) x1, (S/Rail) x3 or 4 ? Charter 2/6/85 Other locos of note: 20 049 (27/7/84), 20 097 (26/4/84), 20 117 (7/1/82- Mallaig to Glasgow throughout....brrr !) 25 006 (25/6/80), 25 044 (u/n), 26 029 (11/1/82) 37 014 (21/5/85), 37 175 (29/6/84), 37 039 (28/5/85), 37 114 + Ins Sal DE 902260 (3/6/81), 37 178 (14/7/85), 37 184 (30/6/84), 37 037 (28/5/85), 37 088 (1/6/85) 37 005 (12/8/82), 37 110 (9/2/84), 37 102 (4/85), 37 149 (15/11/82 + 14/8/82), 37 151 (16/7/81 + 11/8/84), 37 179 (2/8/83), 37 296 (23/2/85)

Sorry for the lack of reports to this thread so far, from my perspective this is whilst I decide how best to record these train formations having looked through my rather large file of magazine articles and cut outs, I also have a rather large book collection to wade through. So with a bit of thought I shall try and organise my reports to the thread on a line by line basis, trains by type of traffic and possibly split the decade into early-mid 80's and mid-late 80's. This, I hope, should make the info gathered easier to view and edit by somebody looking to recreate certain trains....including myself ! For my own benefit of trying to get to grips with better carriage identification I'll be starting with the hopefully easier to identify trains of the Mallaig line. Please don't hesitate to correct me as this will be bit of a learning curve and errors are bound to be made but easily corrected. Regards, Ian.

Ordered mine from the Amberley website ..... post free ....well I am a Yorkshireman !

Thanks for the reply Rob, As suggested I've started another thread in Railways of Scotland so as not to detract from your superb modelling theme. I'll have a look at the other threads that you suggest. At £45 a carriage I think that I need to tailor my buying policy to being a bit more specific, hence the request. Regards, Ian.

Hello everybody, I posted a message earlier in young37215's WHL 4 thread regarding his source of information for making up his train formations to work his WHL Working Timetable, as suggested and so as not to detract from his thread I've started this seperate thread for people to report to. I'm afraid that my own ability to correctly identify particularly Mk.1 coaches in a photograph is not particularly good, hence the request but I will contribute where I am confident. Any sources of information would be gratefully received but I'm really looking for info as displayed in the Rail Express Train Formations bookazine such as :- Loco : 37424 BR L/L blue Vehicles : Mk.2f SO, Mk.1 TSO, BSO, TTA Train: Fort William - Mallaig 07/87. Loco : 37012 'Loch Rannoch' BR blue with white stripes Vehicles : OCA x2, OBA, OCA, TTA x9, OBA, OCA, PAB x2. Train : FW - Mossend 07/83 Personally I'm interested in all timelines but will see what reaction comes back before starting other decade specific threads. Regards, Ian.

Hello Young 37215, Just a quick distraction from your modelling but how have you arrived at your carriage formations, please, as in is it observational or have you used a source of information ? I've looked back to p.4 of the thread when you were renumbering coaches and appreciate that you've gone for a 'feel of the time' approach against model availability and practical length, I see from one photo that you have at least 20 B/grey coaches (not including then Mk.3 set) and also from recent 'start of day' pictures which trains you've divided them into. The reason I ask is that I'm just trying to assess my own N gauge coaching stock policy having so far bought some 24 Mk.1's, 5 Mk.2's and a Mk.3 set ....still haven't built a layout yet but hopefully an enforced Caronavirus lay off will remedy that (just been skiing in Italy and have been told to stay at home for a while by work) which will be based on the lower section of line below Crianlarich, ie FW and Oban trains. I'm happy with the Mk.2's and 3's it's the Mk.1's that I'm struggling to sort out and think that it would be easier to put them into rough train formations....and see what's surplus to requirements. Basically I've got: ×2 Sleepers (no issue) ×1 1st (no issue) ×2 Comp (no issue) ×11 2nd's (×4 Opens and ×7 Corridors ...too many ?) ×6 BSK (too many ?) ×2 Buffet (so far I've only found one 1970's photo with a full Buffet coach included, most 1980's trains seem to use RMB's) Nice dilemma to have but my coach identification skills when looking at photos are not fantastic and I'm currently trying to resist buying further unrelated vehicles to the WHL, there is a nice B/grey RU sat in my local model shop which keeps winking at me. One get out may be to set them into time periods, ie a couple of 1970's sets, a couple or so early 80's sets and a couple or so late 80's sets (5 have Scotrail branding.) Any pointers greatly recieved but don't want to hijack your thread....but WHL train formations may also be useful to others. Regards, Ian. PS - I have the Train Formations Bookazine (not much for my passenger trains but great for freight) ....was there anything in the back of the Train Crazy books ?

j.7822 has a very evocative mood about it aswell.

Hello Dave, j.5652 ...Wow ....superb photograph ! Thanks for posting. Regards, Ian.

Excellent Robert, I bought Hemyock Road from Mark Haynes, when he put it up for sale, with the same view that I could make it suit my own purposes. I am just in the process (although dragging it out) of making an alternative end board so that I can use the layout as a NE style branch as well as it's intended WR milk orientated theme (obviously not at the same time !) I hope it (Minsterley) brings you a lot of pleasure, when I found out that John had acquired it I rather hoped that he might have needed a hand in exhibiting it, being a fellow West Riding Group member but alas it was not to be. Please keep the thread going if possible with progress updates and photos as I'm sure that more people will be interested and eventually find it, it's a great advert for the 'Premier Scale.' Regards, Ian.