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I appreciate I went round the houses on that post :-)

I initially thought it was wrong and that the numbers, whilst larger Scottish type, were too high.

Then I also found another picture that was correct.

I was a bit surprised to find that in a period of 10years this loco had 4 different styles of repaint. And been caught on camera ex works each time.

Looking at its allocation history it seems to have moved around a bit too.

I wonder if this one was a works queen.

Either way i’m Changing my mind about this one.. a Scottish Black 5, with large numbers, that ended up allocated in London in such style...it’s growing on me.

Some mistake surely? All those 70's modellers need buses to go on their bridges and a LN perfectly fits the bill

Standing by this bridge with a handful of other photographers, this guy drives up, stops winds his window down and says why is everyone standing by this bridge with cameras ?

This guy responds... “We are waiting for Lord Nelson” at which everyone nods their heads.

The guy in the car looks puzzled and says “you guys from the flat earth society or something, Nelsons been been dead 200 years” and drove off.

Well ain’t you a pretty little thing...

Comparing my Hornby’s to my Bachmanns, I found Hornby’s is wider and shorter, Bachmanns being taller and slimmer.

Gut feel, from looking at it, is Hornby has the better shape profile.

For continuity, I bought an older Hornby Mk1 buffet, this is longer in length (about 4-6mm !) and but holds pretty much the same shape as the recent sk/bsk/so ( I tried to swap chassis from an SK to put with the buffet but it’s a no go, so I swapped the lighting unit and bogies instead) and it sits lower & closer to profile of the new ones as a result.

I now have a 6 coach rake in maroon, BSK/SK/SK/RMB/CK/BSK all with the same Hornby lighting kit and bogies.

The buffet is the odd one out because of the window edges, but it sits better than the Bachmann one, in colour, height and profile when in a Hornby rake, i’m hoping Hornby’s 2018 range will fix this properly.

Overall I think Hornby did a good job with the New Mk1, it might have moulded fittings but it is very nice, however personally Bachmann/Hornby don’t match.. a Mk1 shape is exactly that..when you look down a train consisting of mk1’s..its very straight and true, along the roofline, gutterline and sole bar it’s very uniformal.. it’s not a mix match of different heights and widths...unless it’s a train of mixed Mk1/2and anything else...colour is a different topic, except for roof deterioration of colours, in the days of blue and grey there was much less interpretation...standard means standard.

Here’s a video I did of a Peckett pulling 8 last year... it’s got everything in it.. old Hornby, New Hornby and Bachmann.. it’s easy to tell which is which, when really I shouldn’t be able to:

My recommendation would be to buy a full rake because together it looks a very good set but not to mix match Manufacturers, unless your mix matching different coach versions (Mk1/2 etc).

A few “engine sheds” ago Hornby referred to a “Big H”, but the latest collectors club refers to a “Big surprise”.

I think it’s been sussed that a Lord Nelson is one, but is an LN a “Big H” ?.

I’m thinking the SECR 01.. do Bluebell types refer to this as a big H ?..it’s certainly bigger than a H, and has a H boiler..there is a hint that an O1 is on the cards out there.

Could be both.. a 4-Big and an O1 :-)

A pannier might not be a bad guess, they posted pictures of someone measuring 9400 at Steam a few years back, Bachmann since announced a 9400, so I think duplication maybe off, but a 16xx or a 15xx is only a matter of time for someone to pick off.

I contacted Hornby about this and they commented that my existing membership would run to its expiry. I thought the 10% discount was continuing? I very much doubt that they would cancel existing members order portfolio. So I would wait until full details for existing members are announce before rushing to conclusions. Then we can all make an informed factual choice.[/size]

You’ve been told it will stand.

I’ve been told the opposite.

No mention of 10% on the new website...

https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/thecollector

It does say..

“Earn Loyalty Reward Points with every purchase”

The absence of one and emergence of another, I do take as to be a replacement.

I agree we have to wait and see, but two different messages on the same day doesn’t inspire me to believe much.

From a sales ploy, I can’t help thinking the new club with its raised price is a ruse, Bachmanns club is massively successful, if they tempt Bachmann to price match Hornby’s club, both could fail.. who is going to pay £80 or £160 a year for 2 full fat club memberships ? By with a little clever marketing Hornby would then have denied Bachmann of a very successful sales channel which is much harder to rebuild once the goodwill is lost...

Just looking at R3385TTS and something doesn’t look right...

Here’s a few pictures I’ve found of it..

(Early crest, riveted tender)

http://www.rcts.org.uk/photographs/archive/380/CAR/CAR1065C.jpg

(Late crest smooth tender)

https://i.ebayimg.com/thumbs/images/g/jV8AAOSwaeRZMD6s/s-l225.jpg

However between the artwork images and the production images it seems to have changed..

The artwork, shows standard numbers, with the class “5” centre top of the number.

https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/br-4-6-0-black-5-class-with-tts-sound.html

https://hattonsimages.blob.core.windows.net/products/R3385TTS_3197071_Qty1_cat.jpg

But the release has changed to large Scottish numbers, with the “5” now centre under the number...

That’s not necessarily wrong, it worked down to london with large numbers, But this image looks the closest match, early crest, large Scottish numbers.. but the 5 is above the large numbers, with the bottom of large numbers just inline with the frame.. as are all the other images

http://www.rail-online.co.uk/img/s/v-3/p940328814-3.jpg

But not higher up as now released..

http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/53339/R3385TTS-Hornby-Black-5-Class-5MT-Steam-Locomotive-number-45116#

Turns out it’s correct though..

http://www.rail-online.co.uk/p129376112/h5CFCE8F8#h5cfce8f8

This loco seems to have had a very varied last 15 years, with at least 4 repaints and several tenders.

While you say that, if you look back to post 1457 i think regarding the 2018 catalogue cover. Theres a very clear match with a painting of a lord nelson

MN is bigger, in size, price, popularity, reality, performance, boiler size, pressure, wheel dimension even the whistle is louder, there’s even more of them preserved, as they’ve just done the MN, wouldn’t this make the LN a “small” announcement ?

The LN maybe one announcement, but as Steve Jobs used to say “oh and just one more thing”... that maybe the next “Big” thing.

It would be ironic if the next “Big” thing was a Peckett named “Big”.

Last year Hornby did one big, one small steam, one modern, one unit, two coaches and a wagon.

Hopefully this year is the same, but i’d Guess that we have the LN, so the others could be SECR 01, or L&Y A class, class 86, 4-BIG, Mk1 Buffet and another wagon... Conflat P would be nice.

But I do keep wondering about that unit in the distant station platform of the club magazine.. it doesn’t make sense to put a Bachmann one in shot, it doesn’t look like a Bil/Vep or a Hal), maybe a Hastings unit, or 207 come to mind.... edit: the more I look the more I see a SUB..

Of course, we could be entering consolidation even further, and the “Big” thing could be a price rise, and the noise of the explosion as the bubble bursts. :-)

Sorry why does this 'BIG' announcement have to be steam? Big could be a modern multiple unit, many still not modelled. Electrostars one big range of liveries and geographical spread.

If Hornby as in as much as a state financially as appears, they need to diversify their product line up and appeal to modern modellers also.

Hornby are quickly disappearing in the mist of steam.... (sorry couldn't resist the pun)

 

Hopefully detailed at the same level as the new MK1’s, a bit less tech wizardry, normal NEM couplings with a simple bar connector, and come in at a reasonable £225RRP or less, allowing maybe a £180 on the retail shelf.

My maths: (New Mk1 Oct 2017 RRP is £42 x3 = £126 allowing £42 for the motorised coach + £57 for a motor bogie under that coach=£99 ), even then I think this could be sharpened a little more.

It doesn’t have to be 4TC quality, And the market place is getting crowded with EMUs, the New Mk1 is more than adequate... Make what people can afford, there’s limited space in the market for £400+ super detailed EMUs.

So what happens to existing members, are we grandfathered in, for the remainder of our term ?

or do we just lose the rest of our membership ?

Do I need to spend my £15 voucher on something with 10% off double quick from my existing membership ? do I lose both on Nov 1st ?

@£40, or £80 to earn “points” buying at full RRP from Hornby’s website, there’s not a lot there in it for me. Club models always leak out to ebay at some point, given the high RRPs now seen I doubt there’s margin in it for carpet baggers anymore.

Edit: just called the hotline, the new start date isn’t decided yet but it’s apparently fairly soon, but we will be contacted by email. However the existing club, memberships and benefits will be terminated and it’s expected we will have to sign up again to the new club.

Time to spend that voucher whilst you can. With the loss of the Price being secured at the time of ordering and losing the 10% discount I will cancel my preorders and reorder elsewhere.

It was a nice incentive that by ordering in Jan 2016 & getting 10% off, then waiting for the locos to be made, but safe in having secured the original price regardless price rises years later, at a time when other retailers have been shifting prices as it suits.

For example, in Oct 2016 I ordered Holland Africa Line rrp £184, discounted to £166, price was held until it was released in 2017 despite the price rising to £209, with Hattons and Rails selling at £189. (I subsequently sold my TTS chip for £45 and reduced my MN to £121)... that made the club worthwhile being a part of, even if it delivered little else in way of benefits.

Unfortunately if all preorders are to be repriced at full RRP then one example is my lilleshall Peckett jumped from £80 ordered on announcement with 10% club discount to October 2017’s new full RRP of £99...err no thanks.

I have pecketts, Duchess, MN, SECR all on preorder at Jan 2017 pricing and discounting, If they do follow through on this, it’s time to cancel all and reorder someplace else’s before they sell out as I suspect this could be a serengeti migration of pre-orders with cancellations @Hornby and reordering elsewhere coming.

I think Hornby may have miscalculated here, as despite the club being pants, it was a great incentive to order from a Hornby direct, you get the model first, at a price generally more or less equal than the retail discount price and Hornby gets the extra margin (as despite the price, it’s still higher than trade price to a shop). But price volatility on the high st, sell by dates on models and now disincentivising the end user.. my cancellations will go in, but my replacement pre-orders will become selective and delayed until an actual release/price is known.

Just a note BGCD No1 as preserved has a 26D shed plate attached.

AFAIK The then Bury Transport Museum acquired a number of these from Bury Depot, and I remember MSC 32,70, NWGB1, MEA no1 , 945, Planet and Simplex all wore them in the 70’s/80’s at some stage before largely disappearing again.

I’d like to see some more of the elegant looking 4-4-0’s of the inherited by the SR and LNER that made it towards the end of steam...

D17 in NER perhaps or a D20, but we’ve not yet had a D16 in GER blue and that can’t be hard for Hornby to do. LSWR T3 would be interesting given it’s recent higher profile.

I wonder if we will get a blue air-smoothed Merchant Navy though? Hmmm....

Alex

If they really want to cause a frenzy, do it exclusively as a limited edition of 250 as Ellerman Lines for the NRM and really starve the market :-)

That would be one model that would bring Hornby out of its financial situation. :-) I’d imagine a couple of blue ones will really sell well, my only request would be to steer clear of some they have already done in rebuilt form please.

You are willing this one into existence.I think Hornby will realise your craving just to ensure you sleep at night Good luck.

I wouldn’t mind one myself, and an L&Y A class, however I think Hornby may be considering an SECR O1.

Whilst idly browsing the forum this morning and seeing Coach's image above, I thought I't finally scratch an itch I've had for a long while. Therefore, can someone please tell me the function of the grey waist strips on the brake double doors? I see it present on much post-nationalisation LMS origin stock, but cannot fathom it's function, as it is not seen on stock from other regions.

 

P.S - I've always liked the look of the Porthole stock, but as a pre-nationalisation modeller I've no excuse to have some!

 

CoY

Additionally GUVs has a chalk board on the side, which was used right into the late 1980’s.

http://www.steve-banks.org/images/historical/parcels/br_guv_s86796_600_341_72.jpg

https://www.wnxxforum.co.uk/download/file.php?id=1979&mode=view

Clayton banking a class 50 on a passenger.

Err, gwrrob, please enlighten me how you manage to get SWMBO to agree that you are right?

I haven’t managed it yet in nearly 30 years of marriage!

Tim T

Everything else.. well you know.

How many years will it take till we flock to a heritage line to see and jump on a class 142 and recreate those (rose tinted glasses on) journeys......?

Withdrawal of class 142s starts November 10th 2018 with full withdrawal by November 12th 2019

So i’d imagine they will start popping up on preserved lines in 2019.

Class 153 withdrawals have already started and should be complete by November 9th 2019.

Replacements are 150’s in 3 car formations (with some cars being modified to become permanent 3 car sets), plus 156/158s all cascaded from elsewhere.

Ive noticed Hornby have dropped themselves right in it with a huge clue to what I guess is their major new announcement for next year on the collectors club page... https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/thecollector

 

Look on the blurred cover on the catalogue and it compares exactly to this image.....

 

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f3/45/33/f34533feb8bc9d94314d60726b912b28.jpg

 

Looks like a Lord Nelson is on the cards to compliment the N15 and S15

What a good spot, right down to the two rushes blowing over the sleepers at the bottom left.

Oh dear..that secrets out.

So Rails and NRM will have an edition of 850 then.

Meanwhile there’s that SR Unit in the bay platform of the Collector magazine in the image just above it.... Hastings unit ?

Exactly. Built a sustainable business, rather than squeezing the most out of this month’s turnover (and repeat).

The thing is, are we prepared for the less exciting, more steady Eddie manufacturer? We may complain about the famine, but we have grown to like the feast...

Maybe we are moving to a market where the core products that shift steadily, such as the more popular Locomotives, Big four staples, BR standards and diesel classes are regularly available from Hornby and Bachman, and the likes of Hattons, Kernow, Locomotion, Sutton’s et al commission the more niche products where premium pricing is more justified and sustainable.

Phil

It would be interesting know from the trade how sales are in 6months from now, on re-released toolings (not H, MN, Duchess or 87) but the likes of Black 5, Scot, 4MT, J94, 08, 71 etc at the new prices. Indeed one could ask that question now on Bachmann range.

With stock facing a sell by date & higher prices my concern is the financial risk is going to be loaded onto the retailer.

If in 2 years from now they are over stocked, with high priced re-released toolings facing down grade from new to past sell by status how many will be able to weather this ?

I just bought R3453 45274 at £114, but whilst I want R3599 45000 @£199 with cheap TTS sound, £85 difference is a lot (considering Rails are selling 45455 in Plain Black for £80) .. I could buy 2, indeed I might haggle for 3 Black 5s for slightly more than R3599.

I’m not price griping, I may end up shelling out on R3599, but i’m Being more chosey and in less of a rush about some of these, it may be, like Bachmann Collectors club 45504 in Black.. that I wait it out 18mths and picked one up for £40 odd less than it was advertised or I just wait until It’s high enough up my in tray that I buy it.

You don’t want to know what I spend on this hobby, but my income supports it, but i’m Acutely aware that most modellers aren’t so lucky, so if i’m holding back then, then others are maybe either buying reckless or are maybe just aren’t buying or being very reserved ?

If I were in trade I think i’d Be concentrating on pre-order business for new sales, and good quality (post 2000) second hand. But for new unless it was a new tooling or something very desirable i’d be very cautious about touching re-released stuff, I think it may be easy to get fingers burnt.

Thing is if we all end up doing this.. then retailers are going to need deep pockets to support it, or we could see a waterfall where discounted fire sales from failed retailers swamp out and draw even more revenue away from retailers who keep going and thus precipice even more model trade failures in a rapid decline cycle that may even take some manufacturers down with it as they will be left holding stock without buyers.

Though of course, seeing a lot of trade disappear, would see the goal of reducing discounting through reducing competition in the market, lead to the state of seeing the surviving retailers thrive with higher margins, and could be how to reach the desired European pricing.

Hornby have said over and over that they are NOT going into the O Gauge market again, so it’s pointless to keep speculating that the 87 cab will evolve into anything more than that. A future Engine Shed was found by a forum member that showed the Brighton Belle returning for 2018. It’s in a full 5 Car train Pack so it’s a pretty good bet that will be the big surprise.

The set was with half yellow ends.

I'm neither surprised nor think that's big enough, but isn't the 2018 belle being rebuilt on BIG/CIG bogies, that and on the Brighton Belle web page they refer to it as a 6 car 5Bel that will return to service, presumably making use of the extra car they have.

A BIG unit would make a lot of sense, especially if they kept it economically online with their mark1 coaches..a whole 4 car EMU for under £200 ?.. But it's a big investment too, into a space where buyers may not have Big enough space for all these SR emus.

There was an O gauge 3D cab print of the 87 at Warley last year, it's been on these pages many times.

That would be a big surprise.

A shocking one would be a class 304, but in these dark times I'll settle for big.

So we all agree then.

But something somewhere has to give.

The consumer can and will only afford so much.

Costs in China can and will only be manageable so much.

The key is to make something the consumer can afford.

Oxford are certainly doing that, there models are among the cheaper end of the spectrum, at a quality cost that some gripe about when it comes to details.

Is Oxfords success in that they control their costs, or that they have cost advantages (their own factory) or are they sacrificing margin for increased sales ?

We don’t know.

However the new CEO has a tough line to follow.

These look brilliant, considering the images are 3x the size of the real model you still can’t see the motor gear block, to me it’s a non issue.

I went through my images of Burnley no1, but non were in blue, they are either filthy or preserved NWGB green. That said i’m sure in the archives of the “Bury Transport museum journal” from the late 70’s there is an image as such in Blue.

I’ve got a few of these on order, definitely a good choice.

Maybe after the first batch, a crane tank body could be added to the chassis ?