ruggedpeak

One, Seagull. Stil runs perfectly after 25 years.

Here's the TTS manual for DoG http://www.Hornby.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/DoG-Sound-Decoder-Manual-WEB.pdf

Is the packaging not primarily to get the model safely from the factory to us via container ships, warehouses and couriers? If it achieves that, and given the propensity for couriers to chuck stuff about especially at this time of year (although I just had a brand new PC arrive by courier and the box was soaked in what appeared to be sunflower oil!), surely that is enough? If you choose to add fine detail that is your choice. Bear in mind it is quite likely a lot of buyers don't add these parts so you are effectively asking Hornby to compromise safe delivery of your product and possibly incur costs (redesigning packaging, additional returns/warranty costs etc) for what maybe a minority of customers. This makes no sense to me, especially if you've read the Dapol O gauge Terrier thread http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/87122-Dapol-o-gauge-terrier/page-38 How many other consumer products do we buy that you expect the retail packaging to provide a long term storage solution, after we've modified the product from its retail state? Are you willing to pay extra for this benefit? I appreciate that this may happen by default with some models (e.g. the latest Mk3 DVT's that come with pipes fitted) but it is a bit much in my view to now expect the packaging to be suitable for tiny and fragile optional parts, especially on steam models that tend to have more fragile/fiddly bits that a typical DE model.

Apologies then, I took the "by-pass model shops" to be criticism of Hornby after negative responses to their selling direct etc. Anything that broadens the market is a good thing in my view, and catalogues into WHS is great.

Aaaaargh, why do people have to be so negative? This is a magazine by Key Publishing (of Airfix Model World and Hornby mag fame) http://www.airfix.com/uk-en/airfix-yearbook-2016.html- surely it is great news for Airfix/Hornby that Key have confidence to produce another title in the run up to Xmas that could well drive interest towards Airfix models and therefore model shops. Smiths don't have a big range of Airfix kits last time I looked. This will hopefully expand the market, so everyone gains. Even if it is a glorified catalogue I doubt many model shops rely on Airfix cat sales to keep their shops open, and will be delighted models are getting more mainstream coverage.

100% agree. Apparently I buy [far] too many print mags each month (and have a garage filled with car mags!), but that's just her opinion . Mags play an important role, but arguably the idea that a major manufacturer must engage with them is outdated in the current media landscape. A professional marketer should be saying "does this activity actually generate profits or other value", not simply doing it because that is what has always been done. Credit to Hornby for yet again innovating and challenging the status quo yet again.

Hornby isn't living off its name in my view. It is trying to get its supply chain and processes sorted out to deliver products. I am increasingly of the view that overt Hornby marketing spend and activity is effectively on hold during this time due in part to uncertainty of supply timing. Mags still have longish lead times, and we can clearly see Hornby due dates are fluid, so an email sent to editors and then used to publish info that may be out of date the following week would not be well received. I also suspect that Hornby will re-engage when they have something more definitive and stable to offer. But if I were them I'd be getting editors in to say "If you want samples and full engagement (at considerable cost compared to social media) what is in it for us and demonstrate your effectiveness as a sales and PR tool." Exactly as they presumably do with ads. Trust is a curious concept, and of questionable relevance in today's media landscape. Buzz is arguably more important for younger people and newbies - and Engine Shed delivers that in a way no mag can match. Look at the Peckett thread. Modern PR beautifully executed. My reading on here and elsewhere is that most non-trainset modellers will buy the products they either really want, or which become desireable due to excellent quality etc. A simple test that might work - get a mag to do a detailed review of the Royal Class 67 that has not sold at all well. Let's see if a review (I assume which would be positive as it is a good model) clears the presumably substantial remaining stock.

It is limited. I get 3 or 4 mags a month, and Hornby ads have been limited to a one page ad either selling off remaining Javelins and Tata 60's, or in current issues a full page advertising the Xmas train set (which has gone out of stock again). Not exactly targetted at specialist readers. I can only guess that they are placing an ad so keep some relationship with the mags, but are of the view that money spent advertising one or two new products is probably wasted. This will in part be due to the ongoing supply chain issues regarding delivery of product. Firstly they are probably not yet able to be confident of delivery dates for new products, or how they will sell. So placing an ad a month or two in advance for a product would be a risk of money, because the ad may run with no product available (and imagine the frothing then!) or the product arrives and sells fast so the ad just upsets punters who see it and can no longer get it (imagine the froth then!). So why spend money on ads etc when it is doubtful, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, advertising or magazine orientated PR will generate any meaningful return. Let's move on from thinking magazines are the critical or only part of the marketing/comms process that they might have once been. Magazines are a business like any other, and if they think Hornby should be sending them (again the costs explained by SK) samples and regular updates (bit tricky when Hornby's own due dates keep shifting - how much will editors complain when they get an email saying the new loco X is coming in October and turns into January, which is then published in a mag and is out of date before publication) then the magazines need to demonstrate they offer a cost effective process that meets Hornby's marketing strategy. All I've seen so far is complaints and criticism.

But does it - what evidence do you have to support this assertion? Who is alienated and has it dramatically changed their buying habits, or demonstrably affected Hornby sales?

Absolutely, we don't have the details. So criticising Hornby for not engaging with or pandering to mags is pointless unless you have actual real evidence that it is wrong as you can demonstrate an impact on sale or profits. And I know from direct (and costly) experience that in some sectors magazines are not a worthwhile or effective form of marketing. But we have gone full circle. So what if Hornby don't pander to your needs? That is their business decision. Makes a lot fo sense since there is significant duplication within the mags and it is expensive to try and service them all. That Bachmann or Rapido do is great, but why criticise Hornby for having a different marketing strategy? Magazines are being commoditised by their publishers and increasingly generic. Fair play to Model Rail for a bit of innovation with its 'Ultimate Realism' issue - very interesting and different from the usual reviews and repetitive layouts. That is what mags should be doing, innovating and adapting rather than complaining that they are not the be all and end all. I suspect there is some griping that magazines are in effect being challenged to demonstrate their worth. I think this thread just shows that the Engine Shed is working and delivering, and is infinitely cheaper and possibly more effective. It is getting a bit like the Uber v Black Cab debate! Mags need to adapt to the new reality, which means that not all major players necessarily need them in the same way they once did.

I disagree. The photos have to be of the correct format and quality for the magazine (i.e. professional studio shots) showing the product in its best light, the copy needs to be written and checked by a PR or marketing person, and each mag may come back with queries or requests etc. So that's potentially 5 or 6 queries or extra requests. It is time consuming and thus costly to do it properly. And Hornby have no control over what is actually published, or if it is published at all. When I had my own business I soon got fed up being asked for samples and copy for magazines who then either never used it or worse took the product and never published anything about it. In my view magazines are nowhere near as effective at promoting products as they pretend. I don't see how this relates to an attitude. There seems to be an underlying assumption that Hornby have to engage with the magazines. They don't. There is no god-given right for mags to be given any material or samples by Hornby or anyone else. Hornby have decided, rightly or wrongly, that they are not part of their marketing mix to the same extent they were previously. Hornby are a business, not a charity to support multi-million pound publishing companies like Warners, Bauer or Key. Nat Southworth has previously stated they have done market research, and I am pretty confident Hornby have a reasonable understanding of what works and what doesn't, and are experimenting to develop this further. And I also suspect, in part from experience of running my own business in another niche sector, that when you have so many magazines, print mags becomes a less efficient and effective form or marketing. SK has already explained the cost of dealing with multiple publications is, and I can tell you it is in fact a complete PITA. I commend Hornby for their approach, it makes a lot of sense when they are still sorting out their supply chain and distribution, I also note that some mags are allowing their pet contributors to have sly and unfair digs at Hornby. If I was Hornby and found cheaper and more effective ways of reaching customers I'd choose them too. And that's exactly what I did with my business.

The question is how Hornby cost-effectively reach those who don't have the internet? Marketing is not about reaching ever single possible customer, it is about reaching the maximum possible of customers for the minimum cost. Nat S's comments last year stated that they had done market research and segmentation on their customers. If true and done well they should have a good idea of how various segments can be reached and some idea of the likely cost and response rates. We have no idea of what that research shows, but it could well be that those without the internet and don't read mags etc are in fact not cost-effective/profitable customers to reach. We need Hornby to be succesful and profitable, and like any business that means targetting those customers who generate the best returns. Long term relationships are lovely, but not if they come at disproportionate cost or are unprofitable. A common mistake in business is clinging onto long term customers who it transpires do not actually yield any value. This is arguably the situation with magazines, Hornby are clearly looking at their marketing mix and (probably experimenting) to alter it to deliver better performance for the business. I know from experience of my own business that some specialist mags can think they are some utterly essential part of a hobby (in my case not modelling) with a sense of entitlement and who's editors should be treated with god-like status. This was the case maybe 20 years ago when there were only one or two key mags that had influence. It comes a bit of a shock to some that the world has moved on and every niche hobby seems to have 4+ mags and none has any dominant power. It simply isn't efficient for some businesses to try and support that many mags. There are cheaper and easier ways of reaching similar audiences these days.

So what we are saying is, you can't please all of the people all of the time? And on that bombshell........

There is a huge range of kits tucked down the back, I think there are probably some rarities in there. There are certainly some rare/no longer available items in the RTR stock. Have my eye on several things if I can raise the funds!

I did indeed, a treat after sitting a major exam this week. I do enjoy browsing proper bookshops and model railway shops.

It has been some time since I've been into what is my local model railway shop, having been buying discounted Hornby stock direct and taking advantage of various retailers sales. Had two items I particularly wanted, and found both in stock The shop remains a veritable aladdin's cave of stock. Found some great stuff that is no longer available, and came out with somewhat more than the 2 items I was after. Hopefully several items I spotted will be still be there in a month or two when I've saved up for them! Enjoyable hour or so browsing the huge stock. Sentinel tested prior to sale. In the past they've been happy to look over and service loco's there and then, and were doing it for customers today. Fantastic local shop with its own parking off the beaten track.

Popped down to my local model railway emporium, John Dutfields, and was pleased to find they had all the latest Sentinels in stock Was after the Wabtec version and got one. Looks great, works fine, happy going across insulfrogs straight out the box. Will benefit from running in and was loosening up from backwards and forwards on my shunting puzzle. Only issue is a bent front windscreen wiper (wonky Wabtec wiper woes!) as below Looking above, SDJR's is at an angle, as is 1whitemooors, but it looks like mine is also bent. Will leave for now, at some point may try to bend back. Not the end of the world. Purely cosmetic, but overall it is a fab model for the money. Having looked at all 3 of the current versions this one is the best looking IMHO. Dutfield also had the Bagnall in stock, huge in comparison to the Sentinels.

Looking forward to the cold start mode!

You've lost me. How is the second question relevant to the first?!

Just for interest, a glance out the window this morning showed a London Midland liveried 321 in black and green (?) operating the Great Eastern Romford to Upminster branch line. Nice livery. More interesting than Abellio's.

Early BR now in stock http://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/br-4-6-0-maunsell-s15-class-early-br.html

IRS overview of Pecketts http://www.irsociety.co.uk/Archives/53/Retrospect.htm Wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Peckett_and_Sons_railway_locomotives Aerial view of H&P factory and sidings in Reading http://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/image/epw022682?quicktabs_image=0#comment-294475

Yes! This is excellent integration of Hornby product development and marketing to provide a far superior and more creative method of customer communications than the annual froth/whinge fest. After the wibbles over the recent results, it is reassuring to show that they have a good gameplan and are executing it well. PS Who is "Oulton Hall No.5972" on the Hornby forum? Why would anyone spoil the livery choice thread with an identical whinge about the announcement? http://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/forum/post/view/topic_id/11405/?p=2

Livery choices need to be on the Hornby Forum page, not here! http://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/forum/engine-shed-peckett/?p=1 A few requests for unpainted or works grey so far.