JDaniels

Hello John, good to see progress. I haven't seen the Mainly Trains brake gear applied and up close before. Looks good.

 

I look forward to seeing the Siphon C. The K's kit is supposedly a Siphon F as you suggest, but if you compare it with drawings of an actual "F" it is, as far as I remember, in fact too long. But it's not a bad donor body for the C, in my humble opinion.

Hi Mikkel,

Good to hear from you again.

The brake gear fret was designed by Iain Rice. Whilst mainly intended for vacuum braked vehicles, some parts, such as the quadrant with the ratchet (the curved part just behind the brake lever) are useful for all vehicles. What the photo doesn't show so clearly is the operating rod which curves up in front of the wheel. It is surprising that plastic kits don't include these features which are quite prominent. 

Some news on the tarpaulin. I experimented with black dustbin liner and to my mind this looks better than paper, at least when compared with the prototype tarpaulin shown in GWW page 95. The problem was lettering, reasonably "sticky" (i.e. not old) Pressfix transfers worked reasonably well until I came to fold the tarpaulin over the wagon. Also there isn't a suitable size for the numbers (was there a standard?) but the large ones for the brown vehicles look right but need to be overrpainted white. Eventually I decided that this was taking far too long and the lettering peeled off if I folded the sheet to much so used the paper tarpaulins. I do think though that the dustbin liner looked better as the folds seemed more natural. Maybe someone with more patience than me might like to have a go.

The Siphon C! Well some progress has been made and the axleboxes and spring assembly fixed in place. I'm now looking at the brake gear, there were handbrakes at each end and I'm using parts of that Mainly Trains etch for this. After that I still need to do the tie rods and queen posts (?) footboards, a few lamp brackets and the roof (with associated gas piping). There was an article about converting the Siphon F to a Siphon C in the January 1983 MRC. As you say, the Siphon F was too long and the centre panels were slightly wider than the others, I think I read somewhere this was done so they could use the roof from another K's kit (maybe the 40ft PBV). By cutting down the centre line of the two pairs of doors and discarding the centre section you remove this inaccuracy. Once this has been done as you say it's a good representation of the Siphon C, the only slight inaccuracy being the the "C" was slightly taller than the "F." You also need to make sure you select the "C" from diagram O8, the O9's were slightly wider.

On to track, I have just collected a batch of Peco code 75 FB rail. I want to experiment with this and ply sleepers to see if I can get a better representation of light railway track secured directly to sleepers with spikes. To my mind the code 83FB track with copper clad sleepers looks a little too heavy. I have a few ideas in mind as to how I'm going to construct the overall track layout, one thing I'm keen to avoid is building the track and points separately, I want to see if they can all be built in situ. I'll keep everyone advised of progress.

Red wagons again!

I think I may have mentioned this in a previous blog but I think the colour postcard in the link below could be convincing evidence.

http://spellerweb.net/rhindex/UKRH/GreatWestern/Narrowgauge/LBSWDR.html

Badminton station was only opened at the turn of the century, I think it was 1904, so certainly red wagons appear to be commonplace then. What I don't know, maybe someone else does, how accurate the colouring was on these postcards. Everything else looks as it should so I assume they were fairly accurate. Also interesting to note that the underframe on the red wagons was black, not the body colour as with the dark grey.

It goes to prove that even little more than a hundred years on some important aspects of railway history are still shrouded in mystery. Still it means some know it all at an exhibition can hardly tell you that you've got the colour wrong.  

In 2011, the best half and myself did the trip of a lifetime to the UK. Timed for York amongst other shows. There was a chap there, demonstrating signwriting PO wagons and also lining of the coaches of which you speak.

No idea of his name but he made it look so easy.

He was using a long haired brush that just flowed.......like signwriters used to use all those years  ago, except smaller.

 

Khris

Thanks for your response. I will have a go at using a fine brush. Lining out panelling is difficult, even Larry Goddard who painted most of my locomotives wouldn't do my steam railmotor. Khake coaches, even if accurate, would be somewhat dowdy and I've always liked the GWR lake. As I mentioned in my blog, I'll have a got at painting one of the spare sides and see how it goes.

Completely agree with BobM's comments. There has been a lot of speculation about the exact colours represented by light stone and dark stone but apparently these were mixed on site using a colour card that was in all probability dirty or discoloured. Often the card would have been lost and it was then a case of tipping in what was thought to be the right amount of burnt sienna pigment into the white lead base. Getting the correct share also assumed the foreman's eyesight was OK and does anyone really think they spent any amount of time trying to get the exact shade? Finally even when painted the effects of the weather would have an effect. I know my white car looks quite a different colour once the rain has coagulated the dust on it. Let's not worry too much about the exact colour because the exact colour doesn't excist.

I agree that the standard of RTR is so good these days that at first glance there doesn't seem much point in buying a kit if the prototype is available from either Bachman (preferably) or Hornby. When I first saw photos of the Bachman 3MT 2-6-2T I thought it was one of the best RTR models I've ever seen, in particular they seemed to have done a better job with the chassis (the wheels especially which to my mind is where RTR often falls down). I have a soft spot for these locos as one of the first models I owned back in the 1960's was the Triang version. 

The problem for me though is that I model in EM and whilst you can use regauged wheels on the RTR chassis it just doesn't look quite right. Many manufacturers now do etched chassis kits for RTR and that is the route I would take so only the body would be needed.

For anyone modelling the period prior to about 1930 though the range of RTR models is very limited and that is where the kits score. The kit manufacturers don't need to sell tens of thousands of their products so can produce models of the more obscure (and dare I say more interesting) prototypes. You only have to look at the oddities in the Peter K range for example to see what is available. I'm currently interested in a etched kit of "Lady Margaret," a single loco acquired by the GWR from the Liskeard and Looe railway. Would we ever see a RTR version of that?

You are right when you say white metal kits are not as realistic as etched metal (a point I made only two days ago in connection with a blog on the Metro tank) but RTR shares the same shortcoming, moulded plastic cannot emulate sheet metal.

One final point, you've made an excellent job of your Kemilway kit, I particularly like the "daylight" under the boiler. Every kit once constructed though is different in terms of the detail added and quality of construction. I like to think that each kit we construct is like an individual fingerprint. It's not a Kemilway or any other manufacturer's kit, it's the model I'VE constructed. That's why I like kits though I would certainly buy a Bachman body with an etched chassis if the prototype I was after was modelled by them, time is a precious commodity and there's no doubt an etched kit in particular can take a long time to construct.

BTW, your Midland 1P 0-4-4T is superb.

John

Less than 250 tons, that certainly isn't a lot.

 

Out of interest, was coal the only traffic for the waterworks? I ask because I have a waterworks siding on my new layout, and I'm looking for excuses to run a salt wagon every now and then, as this seems to have been used sometimes in water softening. 

Found the attached that might be of interest.

http://www.hamptonkemptonrailway.org.uk/history/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_purification

The Wikipedia entry relates to the current position, I don't think there would have been anything so sophisticated in Edwardian times. The English Heritage entry for Blagdon waterworks refers to filter beds and I would guess that's the extent of any treatment carried out in those days.

John

Less than 250 tons, that certainly isn't a lot.

 

Out of interest, was coal the only traffic for the waterworks? I ask because I have a waterworks siding on my new layout, and I'm looking for excuses to run a salt wagon every now and then, as this seems to have been used sometimes in water softening. 

Mikkel,

The attached might give you further information on Blagdon waterworks in particular but also generally about how they worked.

http://www.historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1320936

I found out recently, but I suppose it was obvious really, that ash was a by-product and would have been taken away by rail. I don't think water was generally softened unless used for a particular purpose, one of which was steam locomotives! Some locomotives (the Bulleid pacifics?) had a water softener in the tender which I understand was like a cage in which a chemical was poured.

I'll have a look on the internet to see if there's anything else of interest on this subject.

John

What a treat. I'm very envious of your 1384, some locos have so much character you only really need the one! 

 

Interesting details on the limited goods workings for and from Blagdon. It compares well with the limited goods workings mentioned in the "GWR Branch Line Modelling" series. Good thing they had the Waterworks to liven up the traffic a bit!

Mikkel,

Thank you for your kind words. The small locos the GWR inherited do have a lot of character and but because they were "one off's" in disparate locations it's difficult to justify a whole stud of them in one place. They certainly have more appeal than the standard classes so often seen. I've often thought the Oswestry area would be a good basis for a model as a number of non-standard locos were based there, most notably "Lady Margaret" for which a rather expensive etched kit is available.

Regarding the 1925 survey, I should perhaps have mentioned that this also covered passenger traffic and really was a forerunner of the Beeching Report. Some of the figures are pitifully small but you can see a story in them. For example, general merchandise received in 1903 totalled 1,032 tons. The next highest figure was 620 tons in 1926 but otherwise all other years are less than 250 tons. The branch was opened in late 1902 to carry goods for the construction of the waterworks and reservoir which explains the high figure for 1903.

Mark, PowSides that I mentioned in my earlier comment do the transfers for Bradbury. They were based in London, not altogther surprising i suppose.

John

Mark, I use three link / screw couplings and nothing looks better even if they are slightly overscale. They can be infuriating until you get adept at uncoupling, I use a wire uncoupler attached to a cheap plastic torch that was given to me by a Taiwanese insurance company in the days when I was gainfully employed. I'm still experimenting at finding the ideal shape of wire for uncoupling and I'll report in my own blog once I find it, if indeed I do. As a suggestion why not get a couple of pairs of three link couplings, attach them to two wagons and see how you go with coupling and uncoupling them. You'll need to bend up some wire and I would certainly recommend attaching the wire to a small cheap torch.

As regards private owner wagons, I would recommend that you have a look at the PowSides website. I have just ordered two from them, they have a range of over 700 and as far as I can see are based on the Slaters kits, these were outstanding. They haven't arrived yet so may be disappointed but there is a lack of decent wagon kits these days, it was so much easier ten years ago but we didn't know it then!

John

I like your ideas. I've always liked something different even if my own efforts are relatively conventional. Whenever I go to an exhibition I find it's the layouts that are different that attract attention. I also like the period you have chosen, between the wars GWR branch termini are less common now but have been replaced by post nationalization layouts. It's important that the golden age of railways are not forgotten. I too model in EM, I hope you are a member of the EM Gauge Society. The finer scales I don't think add a great deal and are less tolerant of minor imperfections in track laying, wheel back to back measurements etc. I'll watch your blog with interest.

John

I know the area well having discovered Litlington whilst walking the South Downs Way. There is a great pub there, better than anything in touristy Alfriston. Also a brewery nearby, their Old Man winter beer is fabulous. You're quite right about modelling Cuckmere Haven, you'd need a huge baseboard to do this spectacular coastline justice. Looking forward to seeing how this progresses.

John D

John, it does look as if the Coopercraft range won't return, so until someone else does new versions of the popular GWR Opens (surely a good market opportunity there?) it does look as if ebay and the odd leftover kits in modelling stores are the best options. I can imagine prices will go up on the auction sites quite quickly, so maybe a good idea to get them now.

 

For the numberplates, I have not come across any other 4mm versions than those in the Coopercraft 4-plank kit, but there could an etch out there I haven't heard of. Can't remember if I've mentioned this before, but note that my plates may be wrong, I currently have grey plates on red wagons and it has been pointed out to me that this does not seem logical, ie if used on red wagons the plates would also have been red.

Mikkel,

Thanks your reply. Yes I've read about Coopercraft, a great shame that the kits are not available as they produced good models of a wide range of wagons. I have scoured the internet with no success and viewing other comments in RM Web don't feel happy about going the direct route. One particularly good manufacturer is Great Western Wagons who make some of the very old types but again I'm not sure whether these are still available. David Geen's website doesn't look as though it has been updated for a while. I picked up a white GWW metal kit of an old O/F mink at Expo EM which I'm now thinking about repainting red. They also did some curved end opens which look particularly attractive. Sadly it does seem that in the last few years the range of accurate kits for rolling stock is diminishing rather than increasing, I suppose the availability of excellent ready to run models from the likes of Bachman may be the reason for this but that's no help to those modelling earlier periods. We don't all have the time to scratch build and these kits were a quick and cheap way to build up a stock of period wagons.

Thanks you for comments. I'm afraid it's back to the paint roller rather than the modelling paintbrush tomorrow!

John

Good to see another convert to red wagons )

 

FWIW,  I gave my thoughts on the colour in my blog post at http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/1405/entry-12835-trial-of-the-reds/

 

I feel that a mix of Vermillion (China Red) and Lead Oxide is a plausible recipe for the 'light red' that is often described, since both pigments were in the GWR inventory.

 

Mike

Mike,

Yes it will be a change to see wagons painted in something other than that dull and boring dark grey. Thanks also for your tips on the colour. I can see though that one problem with early GW wagons is going to be the cast numberplates though I have two sets that had thoughtfully been provided in a Coopercraft kit.

All I have to do now is find a few kits, it seems that some of the manufacturers I have used in the past have either disappeared or been subsumed into other concerns. At first glance only the Ratio Iron Mink is readily available. I particularly liked ABS, Coopercraft and Great Western Wagons but to find these needs a little digging on the internet, if they are still around. The internet is good but so was your friendly model shop, now very rare in our neck of the woods.

Unfortunately work on the coaches and wagons is being delayed due to some painting but this time it's Dulux Desert Wind applied with a roller!

John

Thanks very much, I realize that this is an acquired taste and that some won't consider it "a proper model railway" - so it's good to know that there are others who find it entertaining/interesting.

 

On the issue of GWR red and Great Western Way: In early editions, Slinn stated that the changeover from red to grey happened before the turn of the century, and this was the established view for a long time. However, the research of John  Lewis and other experts suggested that there are good arguments for a later changeover date - perhaps even in 1904. This is the cutting-off point that I use. I don't have the latest version of GW Way, but as far as I understand that research has now been incorporated into the book.

 

If you look in the comments to this post:  http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/75/entry-12025-in-the-red-gwr-1900s-wagons/.... you'll see some interesting points being made, including one about the possibility that red might fade to grey for various reasons! 

Mikkel, I've been reading a few publications that I have concerning liveries and it's interesting just how many opinions there are on the subject of the red wagons. I suppose that until, or rather if, someone finds definitive instructions issued by Swindon then dates will be conjecture. I think though I might get a few kits for early wagons and paint them red as I can see that in 1902, the year Blagdon opened using 1384, red wagons would certainly have been used, even if by that time Swindon was painting them grey. Fortunately goods traffic at Blagdon was always light so, apart from the PO coal wagons used to supply the pumping station which I already have, I only need to get a couple of opens and maybe a mink. I'll have to fit these in with the new set of four wheel coaches in lake livery I hope to build using Mainly Trains underframes and Shire Scenes etched sides. BTW, great photography.

John

Mikkel, excellent work, it's good to see something a little different. I recently wrote about this, you have created a scene that was very common but rarely modelled and would certainly attract a lot of interest at an exhibition. I do like seeing recreations of early railways when they were at their zenith. I must have a look at your other blogs but the one about GWR wagon red caught my eye. Early liveries are difficult to research but have you had a look at Great Western Way? It says that grey was introduced at the end of the 1870's with brake vans going grey first with the others following soon after. The livery details given in the book are more comprehensive than other publications I have seen.

Hi Jim,

Thanks your E mail. Sorry to be so late in responding but I'm still struggling with the railmotor chassis.All I need say in that respect is that I've abandoned using plastic wheels and am taking a trip down memory lane using Romford, now Markit wheels. Regarding the station roof, I think it must be roofing felt of some sort or whatever passed for that in 1902. I think I will paint it a darker grey along with some other improvements I'll be making including a total rewiring under the baseboards and a respray of some of the grass where I overdid the water colour tinting. Hopefully I should be able to update progress on the railmotor after Christmas celebrations.

Hi John

 

I've got no other photographs to look at other than the GWR stations book which is very indistinct. When I was researching Tiverton Junction though for the rebuild in the 1890s I managed to get hold of the construction plans to identify the materials used, as like you it was hard to see clearly, I was surprised to see that large sections were corrugated iron alongside the original slate tiles (on the main buildings). All the canopies and walkways between buildings were the corrugated and skylights, must have been noisy during heavy rain though.

 

I just thought it worth a mention as this rebuild was only a few years earlier than blagdons build date. Either way it's still grey though isn't it and to be honest I think Tim is probably correct judging by the battens or ribbing down the roof.

 

Great photos anyway

 

Jim

I would suggest the roof is made of felt, looks like that in the pictures I took there in the 70s. Lead would be too heavy. I can't post pictures on your blog to show you!

Yes thinking about it lead would have been too heavy. I have an old copy of Steam Days which had an article "Light rails to Wrington" which crucially included a colour photo, albeit of Wrington in 1961. The roof is a very light grey although by that time it would have faded. If my shed is typical though the felt must have been replaced many times over the lifetime of the building! I will have a look at earlier photos of the station as I suspect that when newly felted the colour would have been much darker; even a B & W photo would show the shade.

Thank you for your contribution.

The pics also look fine to me. Lovely stock - and a particularly appealing rendition of No. 1384.

Mikkel,

Thank you for your kind comments. I was looking at the thumbnails which were square so I was pleased to see the correct proportions in the published blog.

I'll see if I can add a few more photos now that my daughter (who happened to phone as I was struggling) emlightened me on reducing the file size. The original photos were something like 6 or 7 mb.

Thanks again,

John

Blagdon was one of the places I considered modelling before settling on Hemyock so it is good to see it here in model form.

 

I was looking forward to seeing the photograph of 1384 as I have the very same model in the 'to do' pile and I hope mine will look equally as good once made;  I also have an outside framed brake in the same pile.

I also have the auto coach painted in a very similar livery and even though it is not required I just can't bear to part with an old favourite.

 

I look forward to seeing further progress and thank you for posting

 

Jim

Jim,

Thank you for your comments. 1384 was one of the first etched kits I made and I did have a number of false starts. It was very difficult to get this running properly as the space available for moror and gears is very limited and inevitably they intrude into the cab. I had to use Comet 38:1 gears but I was able to use a slightly larger motor than I originally planned. I guess you have to compromise on either the gears or the motor. The fact that I managed to construct the kit shows that it is not too difficult, I gave up on a 517 0-4-2T as it used thin NS overlays to represent the rivets etc. and there was no way I could solder these satisfactorily to the main structure.

I have some odd used chassis parts for 1384 so if you need anything let me know. Out of curiousity I had a look at the date Larry Goddard painted 1384, he signed the underside July 1987.

Hemyock is a great choice for a prototype, I saw Chris Lamacraft's layout at Expo EM earlier this year. I've always liked the look of Ashburton but the thought of just being able to run an auto train backwards and forwards (if modelling from the 1920's on)  seems a bit tedious. If you need any photos of Hemyock let me know. I have a copy of the excellent Twelveheads Press book, Paul Karau's GWR branch line stations (which features Hemyock) and the 1964 book published by the Narrow Gauge and Light Railway Society. The best photo of 1384 though is in the Watlington Branch book published by OPC, a full page broadside shot.

I'l try posting a few more photos.

John

The pics look great and seem rectangular on my screen.  I usually do mine at 800x600 size, which shows more detail but can still be quite a small file-size.  If you want the pics to appear within the text then you just place the cursor where you want each to appear and click 'add to post' alongside the relevant image in the list.

 

I do like the outside-framed brake van and the lining on the railmotor looks pretty good, too

 

Mike

Mike,

Thanks for your help, I'm bveginning to understand how this works with the help of my son and daughter. Yes the photos are OK, i was probably looking at a thumbnail where the photo was square. Now I'm sorted I'll be able to post some more photos.

Regarding the paint, I did stir it for a long time, in fact I had the bright idea of fixing a piece of bent brass rod in my Minidrill and using that to stir the paint. I learnt just how much mess a small amount of paint can make, fortunately Blagdon and my workbench is in the utility room but I had to hastily wipe black paint off the fridge and freezer before anyone noticed!

Many years ago I had most of my locos painted by Larry Goddard and a great job he made of them, 1384 in particular. I asked if he would paint the railmotor but he does not like doing panelling on coaches so I had to do that myself. Originally I painted it in lake but changed it to fully lined chocolate and cream as it would have been in the 1920's.

Thanks again for your help, I'm getting there.

John

Many thanks Mike. The photos were there but disappeared in the published version. I guess the file size may have been too large.

I'll try again but with my son watching over my shoulder (or at least guiding me over the phone). can't disturb him now though as he's watching some Spanish football match.

My first contribution and somewhat late I know for this article.

I too was surprised to see the loco in unlined green with the early crest but reference to the HMRS bible (part 6) states "in 1956 it was decided to paint them green whilst from early1957 some (the numbers are given) were turned out resplendent with full lining and with polished sfatey valve covers." I believe the move to painting every locomotive green and the introduction of chocolate and cream coaches was instituted by Keith Grand when he became WR General Manager. The later BR crest was introduced at the end of 1956 so it is entirely possible that those 14xx undergoing overhaul during the transition period  would have been green with the early crest. Just remembered now that I have the Irwell Press publication and reference to that indicates that 1454 had a heavy intermediate repair at Swindon at the end of 1956 coming out early 1957 so it is highly likely that the earlier crests were being used up on the less important locomotives.

As further evidence that those overhauling locomotives had little regard for modellers in the future, some 14xx appeared fully lined with the early crest, one example being 1458, as the works concerned (I think it was Newton Abbot) had "run out" of the new crest and were using the old ones. Also, on nationalisation, the livery earmarked for the 14xx was unlined black but a few, 5816, 1465 and Asburton's pet, 1470, were lined out with the mixed traffic lining. If modelling the class as built (as two of mine are) then a photo is probably not necessary as each lot would have been identical. As they age though it becomes more of a problem as modifications and liveries mean each locomotive is different and a photo is then essential.

I reckon the 48xx/14xx 0-4-2T must be the most modelled loco. I have three, two much modified K's kits and one Rod Neep etched (made for Puffers of York). The etched kit is excellent and the instructions alone are a veritable gold mine of information concerning the changes and modifications to the class over their lifetime. I have never modified the Airfix version which I think needs a lot of work to capture the look of a 14xx, like the K's kit it suffers from the wrong smokebox door which stands out like a sore thumb. Easily rectified of course but you feel Bachman would make a better fist of it should they choose to model this popular locomotive. Two of my 48xx / 58xx  work the Blagdon branch goods in the 1930's with one 14xx in unlined BR black representing 1950, immediately prior to closure.

Hope I've not bored everyone and looking forward to making further contributions.