Sitham Yard

Do you have any evidence for this please as it is much earlier than I would expect. I am looking at a detailed brochure on BR Standard Liveries issued by A. W. Hambling & Co ( a well established model shop in central London) dated July 1949. It states that the material in this brochure is reproduced by courtesy of the Railway Executive and remains their copyright. Wagon livery is stated to be Unfitted - DARK BATTLESHIP GREY, Fitted and Piped - ORANGE BROWN, Insulated - STONE (white when paint is available). All wagons will have black underframes and undergear. Lettering and markings will be white Gill Sans Medium type except for insulated stock which will have black letters. It goes on to say that no final decision has been made and the above scheme is provisional. I think the only notable difference with the final scheme is that the grey was much lighter, although it varied a lot particularly in early 1950's, resulting in the introduction of black patches for the white markings. Also I am looking at a photo from 1950 by A.E. West of B457236 a LMS design 3 plank dropside wagon, known as a medium, recently built when the photo was taken. This is in the same livery as similar wagons built in the last days of the LMS. Unpainted woodwork with markings in the same style as used by the LMS (just with "B" replacing "LMS") on bauxite patches and all ironwork and underframe bauxite and black below the underframe. I do not know if this was because no final decision on livery had been taken or if it was just that the new instructions had not filtered down to the appropriate works staff. Andrew

Piped wagons were bauxite. Source document BR.87209 dated December 1958 which includes a section headed Colours for Freight Rolling Stock. This actually goes back to the LNER. Peter Tatlow in LNER Wagons Volume 4A quotes a circular dated 31st October 1924 on wagon colours - Refrigerator vans and Insulated vans when equipped with meat hooks WHITE, all other open, covered and cattle wagons fitted with automatic brake or pipe RED OXIDE. The LNER was the only one of the big four companies to differentiate unfitted wagons by colour and complicated matters by painting all brake vans the same colour RED OXIDE irrespective of what their braking system was. The difference between fitted and piped wagons was in the colour of the steel pipe to which the flexible vacuum hose was attached. Often very difficult to see in photos particularly when a low level pipe was used. The colours also varied. In the period before nationalisation and up to about 1952 colours were standardised as fitted BLACK and piped RED. This changed to fitted RED and piped WHITE which has always puzzled me. The fitted RED was actually bauxite or similar and changed to a scarlet red at a later date. The document quoted above actually states "bauxite red" which just confuses matters even more. Andrew If you mean specifically 1950 (not the 1950's) this is a most interesting time although more complicated. Wagons in pre nationalisation colours were common either with their original markings or BR markings. Wagon livery was the last to be finalised late 1949 or 1950. Paul Bartlett's photos are much later and I do not know of an online source for 1950 photos. I use David Larkins' series of books on Acquired Wagons of British Railways plus various other published photos in books, magazines and prints that I have collected over many years. For later 1950's see John Turner 53A Models on Flickr. His album of wagons is varied but includes this period. Andrew

You may get a better response by posting in the Media>DVD/TV/Film section of the forum. Andrew

When did Lincoln lose its semaphores? Andrew

Yes Volume 5 Open Goods Wagons. Andrew

I happened to notice in David Larkin's latest book that shock-absorbing high goods wagon W139308 is recorded as being marked "EMPTY OR LOADED TO WREXHAM, CAIA WR. There may well have been others. Is this of any use? Andrew

To clarify he is listed as attending as a trader so presumably looking for more orders. Agreed, currently using their baseboards for a club project. I have to take these home each time and they are nice and light but seem strong enough. Andrew

Interesting. He is listed as being at Railex this coming weekend. Andrew

I see from the Chiltern railways website that services via Amersham are limited to one per hour in order to provide more capacity to Wembley. Andrew

Not Epsom but Kempton Park Racecourse. Andrew

Just found more information. One of David's very early books was Pre-Nationalisation Freight Wagons on British Railways published by Bradford Barton in 1977. W133971 is pictured in the book as a store van at Harlow in 1975 in grey with some paint apparently flaking off. Andrew

I seem to remember that the GCR London Extension was notable in being built to continental loading gauge. I don't know if this was still the case in BR days, if it was would this have helped? Andrew

Agreed. The information is repeated in David Larkins book The Acquired Wagons of British Railways Volume 4. This whole series of books is recommended to BR period wagon modellers. The interesting question is why was it not fitted? It may well have been damaged and withdrawn in the 1950's or earlier. Andrew

Exactly which vans are they please? Photo would be nice. Presumably they are pre-nationalisation designs with a 10 foot wheelbase? If so then almost certainly would have been converted to vacuum braked under the BR scheme that ran from 1956 to 1959. This was part of the 1955 Modernisation Plan. Andrew

Looking at the Flickr caption I read that as this being taken at Swindon with a train being made up to go to Longbridge. Andrew

Interesting looking building. The date is wrong as the lorries are I think mid to late 1950's. Andrew

There is no OAB listed in my references. When first built they were marked Open AB but this meant Open Air Braked. The train was running Class 8 which I believe was an unfitted freight. Andrew

Searching on You Tube for John Laing should bring up some relevant videos. Andrew

To my eyes it is the top part of the uppermost plank that has been replaced by a separate piece of timber and then the usual steel capping strip placed on top. Andrew

I think you are getting confused with Adrian Vaughan the ex-signaller and author. I believe he still a signaller on the North Norfolk Railway. I think Severn Models is someone else. Andrew

Plywood bodied ventilated goods van LMS design with corrugated end. Per books by Don Rowland and David Larkin. Andrew

My understanding, from reading the standard books on the subject, is that the SR and before it the LSWR and SECR, originally built 8 plank wagons as high capacity goods wagons (more carrying capacity for not much more tare weight). However as they did not have much mineral traffic originating within their area, these wagons could be dual purpose to carry whatever mineral traffic was on offer. The SR had relatively few wagons that were specifically mineral wagons. By BR days the fitted SR 8 plank wagons tended to be used for goods traffic and unfitted for mineral. The ex PO mineral wagons (7 or 8 plank depending on width of top planks) and similar ex LMS, LNER & SR could be used for goods traffic. However not only did the continuous planks cause problems, as mentioned above, but any load that could move around in the wagon could damage or burst through the end door if fitted. Any load in an end door wagon that was too long to go on the wagon floor had to rest on the hinge bar so the end of the load pressed against the fixed end of the wagon. Andrew

I believe D11's were regularly used, at this time, on trains from Lincoln to Nottingham and Derby. Based at Lincoln St Marks shed (ex LMS ex MR) but then under Eastern Region control. Andrew

Agreed. Looking at various photos there seems to have been a time when, at least some wagons were (re)painted in a more orangery bauxite . Andrew

The John Swift Collection plan, published by the Signalling Record Society, only shows one double slip as in the photo. There was a direct connection, via a facing crossover, to the far end of the loop line behind the signal box. Andrew