Waverley47708

On 20/01/2021 at 21:01, 70000 Britannia said:

Ever so slightly off the exhibition beaten track, who out there would hazard a guess and name (a) the location and (b) identify any of the usual 'suspects' having a serious session, playing trains?  I know 1 of them.

 

Dave

 

 

SMET in sunny Perthshire, recognise the driver and the person with the red top but no good with names.

I ve fitted flashing pre wired SMD LEDs to an ambulance and police car.  

I'm OK with it but needs tidying up with a switch rather than training wires just now.

I have a couple of Bedford fire engines one with transparent blue lights on the roof the other non transparent roof lights.  I've ordered replacement lights but not sure how people fit SMDs to illuminate the roof lights. 

Would be interested to see how others have SMD LEDs to the Bedford fire engines and small switches in general to road vehicles.

I have opted for button batteries rather than hard wiring them so I can move them around the layout.

Fitted flashing SMD LEDs to the Ambulance.  The lights are hollow so the LEDs were inserted into them then held in place with insulation tape stuck to the inside of the roof.  Also fitted LEDs to a Rover SD1.

Next job is Bedford Fire Engines.  Any ideas what to do with the them?  Have ordered some new lights as one of them has solid rather than transparent blue lights on the roof.  Trying to work out how to attach the LEDs so they shine through the light.

Thanks to you both for your encouragement.  I did build Parkside when I got back into the hobby, looked good but didn't run well.  I may give them another go.

Fancied these when they were first announced to include in a speedlink train, but with the current price I may just get one or two or not bother now.  

If only I could build wagon kits that would stay on the track!

21 hours ago, Bogie said:

I agree.  The sense of realism is the most outstanding feature.

 

I visited the area once back in 1997.  I only took a single photo (as these were the days of loading film in a camera) and it was only when I got back to Australia and had the film developed that I realised I had not included any trains!

 

Your layout more than makes up.

You can't fool me, that's not real, that's Davids layout when he has taken his stock of to clean the wheels!

On 04/04/2021 at 20:29, Sir TophamHatt said:

I may have missed this but what about the AWS warnings in the loco?

 

Surely if the signal showed yellow (covered green) the AWS warning sound / sunflower would have been wrong?  And then again at the red signal.  Or if the previous signal was green and the next signal red, the driver would have queried this with the box straight away as that's an unusual series of aspects?

On the AWS I think this has been asked already possibly on this forum and I had wondered about it myself.  From memory the suggestion was a driver seeing a red would stop esp since it appears he had already slowed on account of the proceeding signal being at yellow.

On the preceeding signal question, I was watching a program on you tube about the robbery last month and reference was made by one of those involved to the proceedings signal having been put to appear yellow.  It was one sentence in a long video if I find it again I will include the link.

On 03/03/2021 at 21:32, 65288_62C said:

I attended Dunfermline High School from 1971 to 1975 and, depending on which classroom we were in, a clear view could sometimes be had of railway operations in the vicinity of Charlestown Junction.  Throughout the time we were there this consisted largely of the hourly DMU service between Edinburgh and Cowdenbeath, the odd freight train and the fairly frequent MGRs to and from Longannet.

 

Unfortunately, I was never a trainspotter so didn’t concern myself too much about loco numbers and didn’t bother to keep notes.  However, all of the locomotives involved had to be equipped with slow speed control as the hoppers were emptied in the discharge sheds at Longannet whilst the train was still moving, albeit at a mere ½ mph.  Those which are firmly etched on my brain are D8317, D8324 and D8327.  Articles from the Dunfermline Press informed us that the trains came from Seafield Colliery or Westfield Open Cast Site and weighed almost 2,000 tonnes.  They generally comprised 41x HAA hoppers with two class 20s on one end and a single class 20 and brake van at the other.  The hoppers used on these trains were usually those without the canopy.

 

There were other workings, I think from Bilston Glen, and my memory suggests that these usually comprised 26 hoppers with the additional canopies powered by pairs of Class 26s.  However, the information detailed below suggests otherwise!  From time to time pairs of Class 20s could be seen on other workings but we never gave any thought to where these came from.

 

I have vivid childhood memories of running alongside the Seafield trains as they climbed the bank from Rosyth Halt towards Charlestown Junction.  It was quite a steep climb and, at the time the adjoining land was undeveloped, so we had approximately half a mile in which we could often keep pace with the train.  Nowadays the whole area is built upon and forms part of Pitreavie Business Park.

 

The layout at Longannet was basically an oval of track on the north side of the line with triangular junctions at each end.  There were two lines through the discharge shed and I believe that two trains could be emptied simultaneously.  The triangular junctions ensured maximum flexibility with regard to the routing of the empty trains.  A loaded train from the west could enter the discharge shed, unload then either head back west or continue east to Townhill Junction.  Similarly, trains arriving from the east could return east or head west after unloading.

 

The July 1965 issue of the Railway Observer contains details of a trial which took place on 12th April that year.  This involved a 35 wagon train with D8075 on one end and D8107 on the other.  Both locomotives were fitted with transmitters and aerials on their roofs to facilitate communication between the two locomotives.  The train worked from Alloa to Thornton via Kincardine, Dunfermline Lower and Cowdenbeath and the trial was deemed to be a success.

 

The November 1968 Railway Observer states that, due to cracks developing in the boilers at Cockenzie, some of Bilston Glen’s output was being worked to Longannet, that Class 26s and 32T MGR hoppers had become a daily occurrence and stocks of coal were being built up prior to the power station becoming operational in 1970.  Given that the discharge sheds were not commissioned until 1969, one wonders how the hoppers were emptied at Longannet.

 

I purchased a copy of Merry Go Round on the Rails by David Monk Steel, HMRS, 2011.  I have to say I was disappointed by the scant coverage of the Longannet operations (which the book claims is in Stirlingshire!) but it does contain some useful information:

 

Locos fitted with slow speed control were seven Class 26s and 22 Class 20s.

 

The Class 26s were D5307 and D5301 to D5306, later 26 001 to 26 007.

 

The Class 20s were D8179, D8184, D8192, D8301 to D8306 and D8316 to D8327, later 20 179, 20 184, 20 192, 20 201 to 20 206 and 20 216 to 20 227.

 

The Scottish Region had a pool of 150 canopied HAA hoppers which was dedicated to the Longannet and Cockenzie services until 1990.  This pool included the six aluminium bodied vehicles B352741 to B352746.  No indication is given of the number of non canopied HAAs used by the Scottish Region.

 

The July 1969 Railway Observer states that pre commissioning tests of the lineside equipment at Longannet took place from 21st to 25th April 1969.  The test train comprised Class 20s 8326 and 8327 leading thirty six empty hoppers, a brake van and 8317 on the rear.  This train passed back and forth through the discharge sheds from 10:00 until roughly 17:30 each day.  It was anticipated that trains would be delivering coal by July 1969.

 

The HMRS book states that a trial run took place on 28th May 1971 involving three Class 20s hauling 41 loaded HAAs.  Usually there were two locomotives on one end with a single locomotive and brake van at the other.  Two crews were necessary and communication between them was by radio telephone.  The use of locomotives at each end of the train provided assistance on the many inclines found en route as well as facilitating quick turn rounds at reversing points, often in as little as three minutes.

 

I too have read suggestions that communication between locomotives at the front and rear of the train was by use of the locomotives’ horns.  Whilst I am in no position to dispute these claims, bear in mind that the driver of the leading locomotive would be in the leading cab and the driver of the rear locomotive was in the rear cab of the trailing locomotive (how else could they change direction in only three minutes?).  The two drivers were separated by no less than 41 hoppers and, more importantly, three prime movers operating at maximum volume for much of they journey.  With the cab windows closed, I think it would be a real struggle to hear a horn from the opposite end of the train.  It certainly does not sound like a safe method of operation to me.

 

The April 1972 Railway Observer notes that, following the 1972 miners’ strike, there was a mass movement of a million tons of coal from the Longannet stock pile to power stations in Yorkshire.  The coal was moved in a service which consisted of fourteen (daily?) MGR services (7 each way?) and was worked by pairs of Gateshead Class 37s between Millerhill and Tyne Yard.  The entry is unclear about whether these trains originated at Longannet or Millerhill.

 

The January 1973 Railway Observer notes that the Westfield Open Cast – Longannet service had become operational but that some of the roof mounted aerials on the Class 20s had become damaged by overhanging branches.  It was anticipated that action would have to be taken to address this prior to the commencement of the Seafield – Longannet service.

 

The HMRS book makes reference to a 1973 accident at Longannet in which a driver sadly lost his life.  A single locomotive was leading the train and the driver involved was in charge of the two locomotives at the rear.  After the train had unloaded and come to a stand he went forward to the unmanned locomotive to operate a switch.  Unfortunately, whilst this was going on, the driver of the leading locomotive released the brakes and the whole train slowly rolled forward.  The rear driver became trapped between the locomotive and a piece of lineside equipment which tragically resulted in him sustaining fatal injuries.

 

The July 1973 Railway Observer notes that Longannet Power Station became fully operational in 1973.  Having been brought into use in stages since 1970, the official opening date was 22nd May 1973. 

 

Train services are described as follows:

3x MGRs per day from Westfield Open Cast site operating five days a week since October 1972.

5x MGRs per day from Seafield Colliery operating seven days a week since early April 1973.

2x MGRs per day from Bilston Glen operating six days a week, also since early April 1973. 

 

It is claimed that all of the above services comprised 41x 36T hoppers powered by three Class 20s operating on the push-pull principle using radio telephone equipment for communication.  Whilst I am in no position to dispute these claims, my memory of the Bilston Glen trains is of them being worked by pairs of Class 26s.  In addition, Charlestown Junction signal box was normally switched out on a Sunday so that leads me to question the claim that the Seafield train ran seven days a week.  The booked Seafield workings for the summers of 1972 and 1973 Seafield show that the set completes only four round trips in any 24 period and all of these are annotated SX which suggests they only ran five days per week.

 

The commentary states that British Rail provided approximately 60% of the power station’s daily coal consumption, the rest being supplied directly from Longannet Mine.  However, following the mass movement of coal south referred to above, two additional daily trains began running from Barony Colliery in Ayrshire on 28th May 1973 to replenish Longannet’s coal stocks.  These comprised 26x 36T hoppers and were powered by two Eastfield Class 20s as far as Cadder Yard, where they were swapped for a pair of Haymarket’s Slow Speed Control Class 20s for the rest of the run to Longannet.

 

It is stated that British Rail was bringing almost 175,000 tons of coal into Longannet every week at that point in time.

 

The November 1973 Railway Observer describes an incident at Cadder Yard on 27th September 1973.  Two Eastfield Class 20s (8319 & 8321) had brought the morning Barony Colliery-Longannet MGR service from Ayrshire to Cadder Yard.  A pair of Haymarket Class 20s (8325 and 8317) were backing on to the train to take it forward to Longannet when 8325 became derailed  Fortunately the locomotive was undamaged and, as the Eastfield crane was already at Cadder (to re-rail some gravel wagons!) the delay was kept to a minimum.

 

An article by Derek Cross in the January 1974 Modern Railways describes the operation of an Ayrshire to Longannet working, explaining Fife coal was “soft and ashy” and therefore needed to be mixed with “harder and stronger” Ayrshire coal to ensure the correct calorific content and also to ensure that the resulting ash was of the correct quality as it was destined for use in a land reclamation project.  As stated above, a pair of Eastfield Class 20s worked the train from Falkland Yard to Cadder where they were replaced by a pair of slow speed equipped Class 20s, D8326 and my old friend D8327 for the rest of the trip.  Unfortunately it took the direct route from Kincardine Junction to Longannet so did not work via Dunfermline. 

 

Derek Cross describes the train service to Longannet as follows:

2 trains daily from Barony Colliery comprising 26 hoppers

2 trains daily from Westfield comprising 18 hoppers

1 train daily from Seafield comprising 18 hoppers

1 train daily from Bilston Glen comprising 33 hoppers and worked by three locomotives.

I suspect there has been some confusion as I do not recognise the 18 hopper trains from either Seafield or Westfield and, whilst the Bilston Glen trains were correctly described as comprising 33 hoppers, my own memories and the working timetables all suggest that they were worked by pairs of Class 15s.

 

A letter in the March 1974 Modern Railways corrects the description of the Seafield train, describing it as comprising 41 hoppers worked bv three Class 20s with two on one end and one on the other.  The locomotives involved are listed as 8191, 8316-8320, 8322 and 8324-8327.  A comment below the letter refers to a photograph which was published in the September 1972 issue of Modern Railways.  This depicted a MGR worked by three Class 20s.  Given publishing deadlines, this would have to have been taken around July 1972 at the latest.

 

The March 1974 Railway Observer describes track rationalisation on the Alloa –  Dunfermline Upper – Townhill Junction direct line.  Dunfermline Upper signal box became a shunting frame on 16th December 1973 and the line from there to Townhill Junction was singled.  Oakley to Kincardine Junction was also singled on 23rd December.  As the Oakley - Dunfermline Upper section had already been singled, this meant the entire route from Kincardine Junction to Townhill had been reduced to single track.  The passing loop at Kincardine Junction (on the line to Longannet) was also taken out of use.

 

The July 1974 Railway Observer notes that Cowdenbeath South box was reinstated as a block post from 7th April 1974 in connection with the opening of the line to Dora Open Cast site which would supply coal to Longannet.

 

The November 1974 Modern Railways contains a paragraph on the opening of the Dora Open Cast site and describes the trains from there to Longannet as comprising 28 hoppers worked by two Class 20s.  It was anticipated that Dora would supply 400 tons of coal per week to Longannet.

 

According to Page 47 of British Rail at Work: Scotrail (Colin Boocock, Ian Allan, 1986) the use of the third Class 20 on the Longannet MGRs was discontinued in 1983 as the provision of a second crew had an adverse effect on costs.

 

I moved south in 1979 so lost touch with what was happening on the Longannet trains.  However, I do recall being surprised to see Class 56s working MGRs through Dunfermline during visits home.  Paul Shannon’s book Railfreight Since 1968 – Coal (Silver Link 2006) describes subsequent developments up until that point.

 

I eventually moved back to Scotland in 2000 and waited for a Class 66 to pull away from a signal check with an MGR at Inverkeithing.  It was something of an anti climax when it quietly and effortlessly slid away towards the station and the climb towards the Forth Bridge.  A complete contrast to the daily performances I had witnessed in my teenage years.  Those Class 20s knew how to put on a good show!  How times change.  The coal industry, the trains that served it and most of the power station itself have all been consigned to history.  The iconic chimney, visible from the Forth Bridge and the Edinburgh – Glasgow main line still stands, but not for much longer.

 

Talgo have expressed an interest in using the Longannet site for rolling stock construction.  A Talgo coach was brought to the UK and put on display in Kincardine in February 2020.  Should the plans come to fruition it is anticipated that electrification will be extended from Alloa to Longannet and some exploratory work has already been undertaken.

 

Little did I know during my teenage years that I would end up working for London Underground.  Even less did I consider that D8327 (now 20 227) would follow in my footsteps.  It’s a small world!

 

I have copies of working timetables for the summers of 1971, 1972 and 1973, winter 1974/75, June 1981 to May 1982 and also a Trip Notice commencing June 1981.  For some reason my interest in UK railways began to wane on 2nd January 1982 so I don’t have any later documentation.

 

I will attempt to list the Longannet workings in separate posts below.

Thanks very much for taking the time and effort to include all of the information.  A monumental effort.  I've skimmed through it and hope to have a proper look through it later.

Thanks again, much appreciated.

Found the best way was to remove the body  try to get a blade or small screw driver between the cab and the body and lift them gently from front and sides  For those which were reluctant a carefully placed very small screwdriver pushing the side lugs would do it. 

Three of them came out no bother at all just by pulling, the other six took a bit of work. 

Once done they can be easily accessed.  I may paint the cab interior or at least pick out detail of the block between the smaller windows.

Wonder if the new cabs would fit into the current bodies, doubtful but would be good to get some non Scottish style (smaller) side windows on my disc version.

The raised rectangular panel on 20227 to the side of the headcode is a welcome addition for 1980s MGR workings.

Hope the cabs are easier to get into, spent a good 2 hours last night very carefully getting into the cabs of my 9 Bachmann 20s to fit driver(s).

Just like it says on the box, 1980's Ambulance.

Tiny 18 from Honk Kong via eBay.

Really good to have a decent 1989s Ambulance at last.  Easy to open up and fit driver and even patients.

Looks like it would be possible to fit flashing LEDs

46 minutes ago, slg said:

https://www.Bachmann.co.uk/category/model-railway/branchline/diesel-locomotives

 

4th & 5th items down from the top still saying awaiting

Yes it is back, based on comments on Dean Park Station Facebook it was down to an error that it disappeared from the website.  Not sure what was behind the email advising someone who had pre ordered it that it was cancelled.

Just looked again there are no 47s in the above list or on their website.

A retool candidate perhaps???

Am seeing a comment on Dean Park Station facebok page that 47711 in large logo has been cancelled after one of them got an email from Rails.

 Had a quick check on the Bachmann website and it appears to have disappeared.  While I prefer my 477s in ScotRail I apprecited some will be disappointed.

Hope the ScotRail Mk2a dont go thec same way.

I was reading the main announcement thread.  "Bachmann Spring 2021 - New products" on Wednesday, but it then disappeared from my view in the Bachmann section.

I can still access it via a link in a text I sent to friend on Wednesday morning but I can't find it anymore going via RMWEB.  I am wondering if I've inadverantly pressed a button to hide it from my view?

When I open it in the link the "Go to topic listing" and  "Next unread topic" option suggest it is still in the Bachmann thread near the top but it is just no longer visible.  This one on the retooled 20s is still visible.

Update, sorted must have inadvertently pressed ignore the topic. 

1 hour ago, Simon Bendall said:

 

Taper around the nose and cab roof shape are the main ones if I recall. The new tooling can also do variations the old one couldn't, like English and Scottish bufferbeam arrangements.

Was aware of the difference in cab side window size between the Scottish and English Class 20s on disc versions but unaware of the difference between bufferbeam.  Interested to find out more.

Thanks

Retooled Class 20 announced today.  20227 looks good.

I remember when 20s first appeared in this livery, always think it suited them.  I recall seeing a few on Longannet MGR.  I do not think I ever saw a pair in Railfreight but certainly one blue and one Railfreight was seen.

Although I liked Railfreight on 37s or 47s didn't think they suited the red stripe version the way 20s and 58s did.

1 hour ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

It's right here: 

 

 

 

Invoke Murphy's law.

If you do it, they'll announce it!

Yip just bought 20156 in Railfreight and a professionaly 110 converted to a 104!

20227 looks good, I have the old Lima version of it in Railfreight, really liked this livery on them and remember seeing them on MGR in Fife.  Usually pairs of them, 2 blue or 1 blue and 1 Railfreight. Don't remember if I ever saw two railfreight on the Longannet MGR.

I have a few 1980s loco which have been preserved which allows them to make a guest appearance on modern image layout, 20227 could fit into this although not sure what livery or condition it is at the moment.

Good to see retooled 20s I know folk have been asking for them for  while.  I've got 9 already so probably have enough.

Wonder if the disc version is a non Scottish enlarged cab window, would make sense if it was.

But please where are the ScotRail livery mk2a coaches ????

Available on Amazon Prime.

Our club has featured within this excellent documentary. We highlight some of our layouts as well as listing just some of the benefits that come with being in a club. Make sure to give it a watch during this lockdown!

I'm always amazed how many things are sold having only ever been run to test or words to that effect.  

For me does it run, is the body work unmarked and are all the bits, ladders, footsteps etc there.

Interestingly the optimistic pricing of the Lima 5O is not a one of looking at the other items for sale and they do seem to be selling items with 100% positive feedback. 

Funnily enough all three of my slightly more realistic offers were declined.

I've offered him some constructive comments on the price and wished him all the best.