chris p bacon

I'd say you need to be a bit more patient, We've not had any problems and have our pack, in fact they have been very accommodating with us. I have been there as part of 2 clubs/societies and neither time was there issues.

Thanks Clive, I had actually started those ages ago but got sidetracked with the 3D locomotive developments. It was Graeme King that posted something that made me dig them back out and resume them, so it's impetus on impetus. I agree that these coaches have got some mileage in them, they aren't the most accurate but for about a fiver you get a body an underframe and some bogies, with some styrene and a few parts you can have a coach for less than a tenner that is never going to be in a blue or red box. They also make you study drawings and research which then gives you a better understanding of the prototype. There are quite a few more in my 'wants' list that these might be suitable for, although for the 12 wheelers I might have to invest in a silhouette cutter for the sides.

Thanks for that, I've seen his site but missed that page. Some more info for the underframe but still the elusive blank end. I doubt I'll let Mr B within 20' of this without having a paracetomol at the ready............

Thanks, I presume you mean the luggage van. I've never seen a D & S kit and didn't realise Dan had made one. This is the Dia 42 (page 92 in ECJS by Hoole) one issue I've had is that there is only a gangway connection at one end. I've cast the other as a blank end as I've seen no end photographs of these particular vans to go from. I've got to make the roof up in the next week or so then I can easily run a couple of extra castings off for you.

As a bit of fun I wondered what I could do with the short Railroad teaks. How about a 53'6" ECJS Clerestorey Comp Locker 3rd. I made up the sides in 14 pieces cut from 2 coaches, scratchbuilt the roof and then cast the whole coach as one in resin, has a few things wrong with it but as a first time I thought it turned out ok and passes the 3' rule. Next up is the 45' luggage brake Only about 6 pieces on this side, I've cast as seperate sides/ends and this one is much better than the first. At present I'm just using the RR underframe (Cut down) with the bogies to see how cheaply and easily I can make them.

What about Hi Viz ruc sacs...do they count.....

That's so that one of them is on the verge.....

Maybe, but it's the opening of doors you struggle with.......... That, and grass verges

No, it's not expensive. £4 from Screwfix http://www.screwfix.com/p/hi-vis-waistcoat-yellow-large-x-large-52-chest/59401 Buy 10 and they're £3.30 each, has to be less than a van running over your foot.

You're possibly not allowing for the crumple zones for and aft and the side protection which adds to the cars bulk. I know what I'd rather be in.

I would have thought a bag of frozen peas might have done the job

Having just used a 12" petrol cutter this morning, the line "A fire brigade crew used an angle grinder to remove the ring." Has made me a bit light headed

The reason you should have is because they may have been careless and uncaring but you were criminal. Good role model for your children too. If the car park was empty as you say why couldn't you move your car 8/10 feet to improve access. I'm always reminded of an argument my Father saw in Houston Texas over a parking space, he said there was car driver that damaged another car while parking in a WalMart which could easily have been settled, but the one who did the damage wouldn't back down. When he returned to his car that part of the car park was cordoned off as the errant driver had been shot in the head by the other who then drove off.

I've seen his car and it would be an improvement. When he parked outside a neighbours house they got Storm Doris to throw slates at his car, all of them missed and I got called about the roof. The neighbour said he was worried about the slates hitting the car but I said not to worry as if there was none by the end of the day I'd return and put one through the screen for them.

Obviously as a law abiding citizen you left your name and address and the fact you were responsible for damaging their property. I find it odd you only have doors on one side of the car.

I quite possibly missed your point as the interest seems to be 50/50 N/OO version, but having looked seriously at manufacture of coaching stock some time ago, there is quite a difference in producing the same item in 2 different scales. Much as I would like another set of quad arts I would be surprised if they were a realistic production option unless done as a short run of resin castings. I shall step away from this as I am unlikely to order and I'll only be seen as negative when asking questions.

Thanks for the reply It's easier to pick out a few bits or I'll ramble on. I did read them first off in a negative light, but re reading, i'm not so grumpy now, always pays to have a ponder. When embarking on any project with a huge outlay you have to understand that what may seem a negative question is just that, a question. If you have an answer then there isn't a problem. You'll get many more if the project goes ahead. so, I do have some drawings that have been provided to the factory via an "established" UK designer/producer of British outline models. as things are still at the "dirty end" I've not named them, but will do in due course. the drawings at this stage are not owned by us, hence why the factory have seen them, and you haven't. it's not a ner ner ner i can see them and you can't thing, purely down to copyright issues, and they are drawings that a model can be developed from, in conjunction with 3D scans. The drawings as it stands would not show you a great deal about the model. I Understand this if it has already been drawn by another, the question would be where did the original information come from, was it the GA? 6 months, wow, it really IS that long. I've spent a good 5 months of that waiting for information, approval and agreements for various things. I'm surprised, and a little frustrated at how slowly things can move, indeed one thing that needed bottoming out in a January meeting was delayed until July, so on that i'm going to take a leap of faith. I have never provided a timescale as I am aware how awkward that can be, just look at Dapols 142! and the Farish Class 40. And they are financed by established big players. I am not surprised at the length of time, I am surprised at how little interest there has been since your initial announcment, It's not quite comparable but 24hrs ago DJM announced the King in 2mm and is already taking orders. I know this is a left over from Hattons but it shows the difference between one who has produced an item and one who hasn't, you've got an uphill struggle to prove that you can produce something of quality. Timescale can be a fluid thing but for anyone parting with money they're going to want to know whether it's worth their while investing. So, financial aspects and wishful thinking.... you betcha i'm wishful thiking, but if no one ever dd that, would anyone ever make anything?, I don't have the cash to throw at the model, that's why It will be crowd funded. Step one once the niggly stuff is sorted is to get an expression of interest from as many people as possible IF enough people show interest, we take a deposit, and start on the model development. IF we don't get enough interest, then much like the Revolution class twenty something (ok complete mindblank moment here) then it won't happen. A lot of people don't understand crowdfunding and the risks associated with it. how many to make.well this is where the expressions of interest come in, and here I have worked backwards. I have looked at some comparable models when looking at the N2 in N gauge, gone for a competitive price, and worked backward to establish a minimum run needed to cover costs, and vat, packaging, postage and so on. as part of the process, if for instance the expression of interest came up short, we could conceivably give people the opportunity to pay more and go ahead, or call it a day and move on. It's worth noting that the Pendolino did NOT meet the minimum expressions of interest, but Rapido bumped up the number themselves. This is where I think you are muddled, either you are going to make a model to a price or to a certain quality. I'm also not sure that you should or could be estimating costs 2-3 years in advance across 2 currencies and 2 continents. regarding not knowing me, fair enough, I personally don't know Ben or Mike, but they are proposing models I want, and I will take a gamble on that. and if you are ever in Manchester, happy to meet for a pint. I hope once the full details are out, then people will consider that with the N2 and Quadarts. Ben and Mike have been quite visible in the production of Revolution and getting projects off the ground. Why this model? well, why not. Maybe some market research and looking at the wish list polls? i'm sure any number of OO models have tanked over the years. They probably have, but you're asking for peoples money to do this not as a company with a large product range to spread any losses over. questions re teak finish and articulation, may be a bit ahead of me right now, i'll get that inf in due course. But surely that was part of your costings? At the end of he day Chris, we can all sit back and wait ten years for an established company to finally produce a model we want, or we can make some inquiries, work out the money and see how many people want to jump on board. You may be right and it will come to nothing, but at least i'll have a go. I've been self employed for 30+ years and I am used to taking risks. I'm not even hugely bothered about profit, it will be about saying "i made that" (ok i project managed that with some very experienced help... but that's not so catchy) You'll need to clarify this, you are either crowdfunding to share the cost of R&D & production across many shareholders, or you are seeking funding to do it yourself and to make profit. If the latter then any loss is borne by yourself. As a keen modeller of the GN (OO) I want to see items produced, but I still think you've a way to go to inspire confidence in the project and the way it's going to be funded. This is my personal view although I realise that others may differ and say It's negative.

If one person asking a question about the choice of model undermines a £100,000+ project, then it isn't much of a serious project in the first place. After an announcement 6 months ago, wouldn't you expect at least some detail by now if you are expected to part with money beforehand? And don't forget that with crowdfunding there is no expectation of success or anything for your money after time has elapsed. You put the money up for the research and CAD but to get it to production you'll need either 1000+ investors or it folds.

Like David above I'm not wishing to sound negative but realistic. Taking costings and pricing as an example you posted that you were looking at costings but as yet I'd be surprised if you had an idea of how many units you were looking to produce and sell. In your first post you suggested that you would like to produce the N2 for £85, this is a retail price so the amount you would receive would be nearer £70, take out shipping, VAT etc and you're likely to be down to £55, at this price you're going to have to shift 2000+ just to get minimal costs back. If you take the DJM J94 as an example, it's a lovely model and you can get it for £95, Dave has produced/sold about 3000 which sounds great but this has been 3 years in planning and production and has been a full time job promoting, it's most probably covered it's costs and made a profit but it was a huge gamble. DJM is a known within the hobby coming from a manufacturer and having a working knowledge of production in China so he has credibility. I think you have a long way to go yet before you are at the same stage where you can start asking for expressions of interest and asking people to put their money forward. I would wonder about your choice of model too. The N2 in OO has been around for a few years, for those that want a simple model it does the job and can be purchased cheaply either new or 2nd hand, For a bit more detail and better running there is the Comet chassis to put under it, this raises the price but for a better model. Why do you think the N2 will be a good model to risk £100,000+ production on? Being polite, I think you have a lot more work to do. Being harsh, I don't think this will go anywhere.

Long Tail Tit in the workshop yesterday, flew around a bit as it got agitated then paused to pass comment on my work. I presume the chatter was to give me a mouthful then it flew back out.

I'm intrigued as to how you can estimate costs of tooling and production without some sample drawings showing the level of complexity and detail. You might not get enough interest if the detail is basic but then the price might be exhorbitant for highly detailed. How are you going to articulate the Quads so they look a realistically tight coupling between coaches but can negotiate tight radii? What level of finish is the Teak going to be. Having done some calculations for the production of coaching stock in the past, you'll be looking at £4-500 (if you're lucky) for the Quad arts as you won't get the numbers to get them down to the £50 a unit which seems to be the current. One of the problems now surfacing is the application of teak finish. You only have to look at the latest Hornby offerings to see how they are cutting costs on the livery application (if it wasn't cost cutting they'd have recalled them) compared to the teaks they produced a few years ago. Normally I'd say I'd be interested in a Quad art as I model the GN, but there is no way I would sign up to something where after 6 months there is very little detail and the originator is an unknown anonymous user name on a forum. DJM and Revolution (to name 2) don't produce anything I want, but I know who they are and what they are producing in great detail. Without meaning to be rude this just strikes me as a different way of "wishlisting" and I doubt it will go anywhere beyond a bit of froth.

This is from 18 months ago Nothing exceptional about the MPG but I used the trip as a means of comparing the onboard computer against the old fashioned way of full tank then top up and calculate, the figures were identical so I'm reasonably confident in the onboard comp. The Journey was Sandy to St Ives (Cornwall) via Bedford, MK, Buckingham, Bicester, Oxford, Swindon then M4, to Bristol and M5 to Exeter then A30 via Okehampton. When you consider the journey to Swindon is stop/start and 30/40 & 50 mph limits the average mpg is not bad.....Best not ask about the Motorway sections......

We sat in the garden yesterday afternoon straining to see the Red Kites we could hear calling, eventully we figured out it was the Starlings mimicing them that we could hear. Shows how often the Kites are about if the Starlings are picking up on them.

Check Ryanairs site, you'll probably find that they actually land in Canada when you want Iceland as it's the next nearest cheap airport.

Sadly not possible now as the modeller has passed away (2 years) and his stock been split up around the family. It was quite something watching it evolve, 2 of us built the room it was in ( above a triple+ garage) and it measured approx 36'x 10'. Each time I visited I saw more progress and it was a purely lone venture, P4, ply & rivet with copperclad turnouts. The era was LNER 1925 onwards with every item of stock being kit built. Lord only knows where he found the time !