chris p bacon

Sadly not possible now as the modeller has passed away (2 years) and his stock been split up around the family. It was quite something watching it evolve, 2 of us built the room it was in ( above a triple+ garage) and it measured approx 36'x 10'. Each time I visited I saw more progress and it was a purely lone venture, P4, ply & rivet with copperclad turnouts. The era was LNER 1925 onwards with every item of stock being kit built. Lord only knows where he found the time !

I feel a J6 coming......at least it will if there is a God up there.

I'm not fussed about sound, a friend has it in 2mm finescale and I must admit it's pretty good but he has taken time with speakers and settings. With it sounding 'artificial', you are watching a model probably not recorded with broadcast quality film & sound equipment, uploaded to a host site then dare I say replayed through a PC with average quality speakers, nothing will sound that good compared to the original. We all hear differently as well, I have 100% in my left ear but only 30% in my right**, whatever anyone else hears will be completely different to me as I am missing certain frequencies, it could be said that as I was born in 62 and don't remember steam at all, I've possibly never heard what the real thing should sound like. I know when speaking to my consultant and discussing hearling loss, he stated that no 2 people hear things the same as the brain will pick out different frequencies when it translates the soundwaves. ** when the Consultant tried to pin down the loss I did mention several cab rides in Deltics in the late 70's standing between Driver & Secondman, on my 3rd visit he said he'd looked them up on Youtube and said "bit of a noisy beast" but the wrong frequency to affect me, from that I took it that should I get the chance, then a further cab ride would do no harm and would even be beneficial.

I clicked like, but I also wanted to click 'funny' too.

I've been selling a vast amount of cr@p from work on Ebay this last week or so and now have enough to order a 2nd............Is there a buy 1 get 1 free by chance?

Sadly the owner has dropped off this world, The layout has been donated and the majority of the stock is still within the family but spread around the country. The reason I was there was to help his widow dispose of his workshop and other modelling items.

You ask I've highlighted the relevant part Good idea Ref, why don't we discuss the reliability and running of P4......

I agree it is polite but I wouldn't say 'thought out' I'd insert 'tiresome' I have a foot in both camps, running DCC at home and DC at the club, Home is my choice and club is due to those that supply the stock being DC so that is the way the club layouts have evolved. The one noticable thing within the club though is that all the electrical fault finding on the DC layouts is carried out by those that run DCC, it's quite clear that the choice for DC comes down to a lack of confidence in things electrical. I don't see a problem with that as everyone has their own talents but I can only presume that the criticsm of DCC is because of embarrassment of lack of knowledge which is human nature. A few pages ago when it was the 'P4 doesn't run reliably' debate, I posted about a very large P4 layout of Welwyn North that ran well and looked good, among the items I cleared from the workshop was a DCC system with notes of which decoder for which locomotives and it was obvious from the notes on layout wiring that the decision had been taken to convert the layout from DC to DCC. I can only imagine the consternation that a reliable P4 layout with heavy fast expresses as well as 50 wagon goods running on DCC would cause.

Off topic a bit but a few years ago Colin Curtis of Routemaster design fame stayed with me (giving a local talk) and said that great care had to be taken in the 60's with stairs and conductors mirrors on LT's buses due to the advent of the mini skirt. I'd rather hope that Gareths customers are not regular wearers of said garment....

You're a few miles away but I always pop in when I have to come to Peterborough for Committee meetings (next one in 10 days!) You've got a decent sub structure, but as you're using carcassing ply (looks like 18mm) make sure it's screwed down at something like 150-200mm intervals. It'll take the wear and tear of the shop location but can 'ripple' a bit if not fixed down well enough.

P5 anyone...

After you've taken some prozac....

This thread has run the course of many on here, a bit of news and then some chat which develops into whether it's better for societies to be the suppliers, what ranges people would like to see continue and a couple making a guess as to who the new owners might be. Nothing unusual. You then waded in with accusations of poor treatment of staff and added to the speculation that you now say could be misconstrued. Your best bet is to take the advice from Re6/6 I do have sympathy for the staff at the thought of losing their jobs, but the owner of the business must get the best deal possible or conclude the only deal available. The reality is that no matter how much you think you know, unless you are the person concerned you know the same as the rest of us about their financial situation, which is diddly squat.

You may now say you are not actually one of the employees, but the inference given in your posts is that you were either an employee or a partner of one. While some of us as existing C&L customers muse over what might happen to the range of products, you were the one that brought up the speculation of poor treatment of employees. I doubt you've done them any favours.

I reckon the four grand I've spent with C&L in the last 3 years has probably put the price up anyway......

From the press release The business format will change and will be downsizing in so much as there will no longer be a shop, and as a result it will not be possible to continue selling Peco products. To me this means that they are pulling back from a larger retail operation, I'd also wonder that they are taking into account the new BH track from Peco and how it might affect (if it hasn't already) sales of C&L's own BH track. I'd also say there is another reason for the purchaser wanting to scale back and it is not lack of cash, but wanting to concentrate on just one set of specific products that have been the core products. With the new business rates about to take effect that could have another bearing on not wanting to take on retail premises, as an example the Shop to House conversion I own at present had a rates bill last year of £2110, this year it's been 'adjusted' and is now £3651, a 60% increase. Thats a lot of product that has to be shifted to cover the overhead.

For whatever reason the business is being sold, and the reality is that any new owner has to look at what they can afford to run until product lines are re-established. Taking on 5 staff would mean they would have to commit to approx £75-100,000 outgoings in one year (wages, employer NI contributions, insurance, accounting fees) when they are not taking all the range. I have sympathy with you for the loss of your job, but sh1t happens in life that you can do nothing about.

This is not meant to be argumentative but the most important part of a business is its product. That is the only thing that has a real identifiable value when it comes to a sale. I can't comment on what was said a month before, but in my own business world I have seen others experience a change in fortunes in a matter of days when banks etc pull the plug even though guaranteeing continuety just hours before.

You cannot compare DCC with Hornby's Zero 1, you may as well compare DC with Brio. DC is fine if what you want to do is watch trains go by with a limited amount of shunting, for something more complex DCC starts to make sense. Our club layouts are DC and they work fine but when they go wrong they are a right pain to fault find. For shunt movements the panels are linked with just the relevant track being energised, one dirty contact can bring large parts of the layouts to a standstill. For our new layout the cost of the control panels has been astronomical and I have wondered that it might actually have been cheaper to simplify the wiring and convert locomotives. I'm not fussed what control system people use for their own pleasure and I can't see how you can say that one way is better than another, I think they both have their uses within the hobby. DCC is not about improving the running of a locomotive but a different way of controlling it to DC.

While redundancy is not a nice thing to happen to anyone, it is not a "kick in the teeth" but the reality of trying to sell a business on.

And that is precisely why universal track products should not be supplied by societies only. I am a supporter of societies (I help run one) but they should never be the only source of products to the hobby.

I've never experienced anything that you describe with DCC. I would say that like anything else electronic, it only responds to programming/fiddling and does not have a mind of its own or it would be halfway to artificial intelligence. I would wonder in a club situation that you have people that "fiddle" without owning up when it goes wrong.

DC vs DCC...here we go again. I moved over to DCC a number of years ago as the reality of trying to operate a layout as complex as 'Sandy' single handedly by DC was not feasible. There are 8 boards and each one is a seperate power district, it's dead easy to find faults by the flick of a switch, and they are generally carelessness of placing something on the track which would affect DC in the same way. At present there are 1000+ metres of cable either powering the track or the Tortoise motors, had I gone down the DC route then for shunting I would need multiple sections and another 3-400M of cable, and from memory the panel would have needed another 40+ section switches on top of the 40+ required for turnout operation making the panel ridiculously complicated for any visitors. Regarding the running of a locomotive which has been chipped, this should be no different whether DC or DCC, it is not difficult to programme a chip and takes just a few minutes, I have an assortment of RTR and kit built loco's and none have presented a problem for chipping so far. Had I of built Sandy in the 1970's with very little of the yard left and without the Ox-Cam then DC would have been sufficient but for more complex trackwork DCC gives you more options as a single owner/operator. Cost - I have not paid more than £12 for a chip so far using those with just basic simple functions, adding this to a kit which probably costs £150-180 with wheels & motor is negligible.

Blimey give the new owners a chance, The ink isn't even dry on any contract yet. I'm sure they've thought about the direction they're going to take as they're already looking to slim the operation down to it's core of track components. Just how much is needed to survive as a cottage industry only they'll know. I wish Pete all the best, I did think while building 'Sandy' that I was his own personal pension plan but the service and product are top notch.

From the press release. Last website orders are 29th April on the existing site, after that it is up to the new owners.