Captain Kernow

Indeed, and I'm sure that we'll get a lot more pages than that before we're done... Whilst the route is certainly of interest to many, especially those of us who normally use it every day, the point I was making is that not enough time has passed yet for a thorough assessment of repair times to be made, yet we've already had some people questioning whether the route will/should be restored at all, and others quering the validity of the '4 - 6 weeks estimate' and suggesting that it may take even longer. Yes, there is another storm coming in on Friday night, with southerly winds and a mean speed (not gusts) of 32 mph at midnight (Met Office info), but work is underway already and if the worst case scenario is that we have to re-start again, then that's what will happen. In my books, that's better than doing nothing and adopting a 'wait and see' attitude. So it may take longer than the 4 - 6 weeks, but who knows, it may even take a bit less!

John - the industry/country simply can't afford to have such a lengthy route, seeing relatively little use most of the year, just 'sitting on the shelf, just in case'... sorry!

With all due respect to everyone, I think it's still far too early for anything other than relatively uninformed debate. We're hardly 36 hours beyond the initial catastrophic event, and we're already on 8 pages - not bad!! I think that we can debate the 'Southern' route until our cows come home blue in the face, but the realities are that the South Devon route will be the one that will remain. Where it could get interesting, is just how deeply the politicians are prepared to put their hands in their pockets for improving resilience. It is certainly possible (engineering-wise) to build a brand new wall to the sea-ward side of the existing one, not necessarily that much further out, but made of modern reinforced concrete, with a scientifically-calculated efficient wave-return profile and somewhat higher than the existing structure. Unless sea levels rise dramatically in the next 100 years (and where's the hard evidence for that?) - there's every chance that such a structure could withstand pretty much most weather, given that it would have been designed with such conditions in mind. If money really were no object, then as Stationmaster suggests, an inland deviation, much of it in tunnels but still serving Dawlish and Teignmouth, could be built. But.... when reality kicks in again, I personally doubt that we'll see such a project. I'm sorry that this isn't what those proponents of reopening the 'Southern' route want to hear. If BR couldn't make two routes pay back in the 1960s, I doubt that NR and the TOCs could do so now, without significant subsidy (which would come from where, exactly?). The very valid points made earlier by Stationmaster regarding the time-consuming reversals at Exeter and Plymouth (the Plymouth end taking longer in particular, because Cornish passengers would have to travel the St Budeaux - Plymouth North Road section twice) is very important. Not just from the point of view of 'business journey time-cost', but also train diagrams, crew diagrams etc. You can't simply/glibly say - 'well, we'll have another driver and guard standing by at Point X to take over' - that's another cost in terms of running that service.

The other breaches - from what I understand, having walked the Dawlish Warren to Dawlish section this afternoon, are more minor, and concern the parapet wall between the railway and the walkway, the walkway itself, and ballast washouts. That is assuming I have understood the reports from the tunnels and Smugglers - Teignmouth section correctly and that there aren't any major problems there.

Indeed. It will definitely be a joined-up approach, and discussions with the appropriate agencies and organisations have already commenced.

Quite right, Mark. In effect, the surface of the Down platform is designed to be lifted off by high seas, to avoid more serious damage to a more permanent structure. As far as I can recall, the wall under the platform remains intact. I meant to mention the concrete foundations along the base of most of the wall, installed between 10 - 12 years ago. The engineers at the time identified those geological locations where the base rock is too soft to withstand the sea, and installed deep concrete foundations in front of the wall. This cost millions, and took several years to complete. This was due to the fact that the hitherto-usual mode of failure was for the sand level to drop and the sea to quickly scour out the soft bedrock and then the infill material behind the masonry outer wall. The deep concrete foundations have quite literally saved the wall on several occasions since they were installed and have, therefore, paid for themselves several times over. The mode of failure this time appears to have been different. There is no doubt in my mind, speaking personally and not as an engineer, that the deep foundations saved a much, much larger section of the wall from being seriously damaged this time, too.

Regret unlikely to see many engineering trains on this one, Rod, it's more suited to R/R machines and road deliveries via Dawlish station to the main site, which is quite close. I've been out there all day, and since getting home, have had to deal with the outstanding work-related stuff first, of course. It's taken a fair few minutes to get this far in this thread, as well. As Rod and one or two others have said, it's pretty meaningless to start bandying timescales around at the moment, certainly until the next few days of subsequent storms have been and gone. Fortunately, I think the wind is backing to the south-west and west, now, which will be much less damaging than last nights south/south-easterlies (the worst possible wind direction for the sea wall). A clearer picture will emerge in a couple of days, regarding timescales for repair, so we should wait for that. Bear in mind that you can't work in a location like that most high tides, so that's a large chunk of every 24 hour period effectively 'out of bounds'. However, the 4 - 6 weeks would, all other things being equal, be achievable. The original foundations are still extant, so we will build new concrete sub-structures on that, building it up until we've got replacement structural support in place. We are mobilising contractors right now and getting manpower and materials, machines etc. marshalled. The repair being currently planned should see the wall looking in outward appearance as it did, before the breach, albeit with greater 'hidden' structural integrity. I recall the last major breach, which was January 1996, when Sprey Point again got damaged, plus lesser damage in the Rockstone area. The railway was reopened within 2 weeks, IIRC. This one is much, much worse, and is the worst damage I've seen in my 21 years in the SW. There will also be a longer term plan, already in existence prior to this event. Most of you will know my views on diversionary routes - 'pie in the sky'. Major expenditure required on Meldon Viaduct, plus one other viaduct, to enable them to take modern trains at sensible speeds. You'd have to reverse twice between London and Cornwall, the reversal between St Budeaux and Plymouth North Road being particularly time-consuming. I personally think that Bere Alston - Tavistock will happen, but it will be a single track line, that may have to share some of the line of route with a cycleway. The political fall-out from not serving the major towns in South Devon on the main rail link would be too great, so the 'Southern' route loses out in that regard as well. I feel desperately sorry for the family who's house was partially falling into the sea in front of my eyes, earlier this morning. Areas of tarmac of what used to be Sea Lawn Terrace also fell into the void. Fortunately, all present were sensible enough to keep well away from the edge! The press were kept further back, beind a Police line. I've got loads of photos, but frankly, I'm just too knackered to post much else now!

It's a lovely little model. I'm impressed that they've managed to fit sandbox operating rods in 2mm!

Lovely, really nice, I do like it!

Will he now drive the Dukedog through Brent, Robin? ;-)

There was a steam charter in 1994 with two Standard 4 tanks, of course, but presumably this is about last BR steam... [pedantic mode] Please also note Barnstaple is spelt with a 'P' [/pedantic mode]

I love the 'Clive Groome' moustache!

Now you're talking my kind of language!

Yes, completely agree. I love the way you can get the mortar to go into the crevices via capillary action so easily! So, who is Josiah Auld related to? Is he some long-forgotten Scottish cousin of Henry Finching-Harbottle?

Lovely Robin, they're great fun to paint, aren't they? Do you use enamels?

There is also the matter of the positioning of the buffers, in that on a 54XX they are lower down on the buffer beam, to compensate for the larger wheel diameter.

I was rather amused by this sign in the contractors' lavatories at the Whiteball Tunnel work site today:

Yes, there was, in old photos this would seem to have been connected with the passenger halt that existed there on the London-side, but which closed (in 1964, I think), when the Chalford Auto finished.

I first read that as 'the local pastie'.... I think I might need help...