Pennine MC

The difference isnt a tenner now Ryan, there's been a couple of recent mentions that Hornby have reduced the prices (of this and the tippler); RRP is now £13.99 IIRC and Hattons are listing them for pre-order at 12 quid. Whether you think the extra is worth it for the better handrails is a moot point, but it's certainly narrowed the gap, and where the later versions are concerned, I'd say it probably is worthwhile, to save the aggro of changing the buffers and axleboxes as well. That said, Bachmann's forthcoming SR brake will retail at £12.40 and will surely have wire handrails, and the men from Barwell could easily decide to similarly upgrade the BR van and knock it out at a quid or two more than it is now...

Have to give Hornby credit where it's due, it looks to have roller bearings and Oleo buffers, not to mention the pipe runs for the brake conversion.

I wouldnt use 'train station' myself, but it doesnt overly bother me; there is some logic in it, as in 'bus station' or 'ambulance station'; I dont see folk getting bent out of shape over 'fire station' When I was young, that would be collected by a 'dustcart' - is/was that term prevalent anywhere else in the UK?

No probs Mark, drop me an email - Phil (Bartlett) has the addy.<br>

Mark, I have a pic of 5038 in 1972 if it helps - it's the same side as the 'derbysulzers' shot but by then it'd lost the valance. <br>

I'm not getting into the 'let's define finescale' debate except maybe to cite the celebrated Pengwynn Crossing, another layout that used code 100 but would be classed by many as 'finescale'. I do very much agree with the basic point here though, especially the colours and textures - the 'suspension of disbelief' I referred to in another recent thread means that the track is either the last thing you look at, or that you willingly accept it because everything else is so 'right'.

Could be a distinct subcategory here, of 'things that they know full well are unpopular, but they're gonna bloody well do them anyway'

That's an apt analogy I think Recommended - I spent a good while perusing that when I first became aware of Andrew's work B)

Thank you very much for that Paul, Yelland is one of those places that fascinates me. This link should go straight to it, Yelland MotorRail, it's a bit tucked away otherwise; though having said that the whole site looks worth a look I dont suppose you know if Ken Baker has any plans to resurrect his N Devon Fotopic collection?

John (Turner) and myself were discussing this shot on Saturday (it's on his Flickr site) and we agreed it's not a vanilla ECML service train in the accepted sense for various reasons. The train is heading North, it would be unusual for the first class section to not be at the London end. Also at that time Sc-allocated stock covered only ScR internal services, with very few exceptions, one being the Plymouth - Edinburgh service whose Mk2s acquired Sc prefixes when maintenance responsibility changed from Laira to Craigentinny. Brushman's suggestion has merit, it could have been an expedient use of the stock before the p/p services started. Or it could just be ECS.

I thought that said 'chavs with stiffies', which is truly a horrific image Never been on a Voyager, not sure I've even seen one, but I'll chuck it in anyway

Fair comment, I'm sure the bit below didnt used to be there though, it was a blanket ban: except when another road user poses a danger. Must admit I've not read the code for years, but I'd still pride myself on knowing more about it than the average road user Wee - ell, it might be dangerous, you might chip your nail varnish or something

My assessment of that is that it's usually in *addition* to several goodnights and waves. And of course it's one of those things that's actually illegal (partly because it's an incorrect usage of the horn, partly because the horn shouldnt be used between 1130pm and 7am), but will never be acted on.

It's in the Minutes of the Wagon Standards Subcommittee Paul, minute 5821 dated 28.2.63, and now I have it here it specifically says 'This code figure would supersede existing "XP" and "Star" markings. It goes on to list specific vehicle types/classes. It has a handwritten note, 'Amended - See Minute 5851', which I dont think I have any notes of, but as it's clearly only a proposal, that might refer to its non-adoption. If you need anything more, get one of my friends to let you have my email addy (as you can't PM me), or if you find it it, would you report back on whether 5851 adds anything?

As Stuart says, there are many existing posts/threads going into the 'ifs and buts', such as vans becoming 'de-fitted' but not reliveried. I'm also fairly sure there's a pic in Eric Gent's book showing a brand new unfitted van in bauxite I havent time to dig it out now but I have a copy of a BR doc from the NRM suggesting that a new system of speed classification was to be introduced with the post-'64 lettering; photographs of the period obviously suggest it wasnt widely adopted, if at all, but it is possible to find pics of Vanwides and Palvans with '2' or '4' in the box at right of the number box. IIRC it doesnt mention the meaning of an empty box, but evidence of that on steel minerals and Plates might mean it was for the lowest speed classification, i.e. unfitted wagons I would hazard a guess that this system was intended to supersede the 'XP' marking, although there is of course plenty of evidence to show that 'XP' boxes were carried on all sorts of wagons with the post-'64 liveries

Fully noted, and duly appreciated

Probably one of the best photos I've seen of one of those - it's one of the early 70s Shildon rebodies on various 21T hopper underframes. Note the subtle Shildon differences - the uprights are wider in section, the top lip is narrower but continues at the same thickness over the end door

Seems to be a bit of a week for traders scoring own goals, doesnt it

Oh dear, only six weeks into this and people are getting jumped on for opening their mouths Just for the record, I didnt ask anybody to edit anything, I'd have been quite content to decipher John and Keith's list if I ever needed the info. If you read my post carefully, you'll see it's couched in the future tense, because I thought we were discussing what we'd do from this point onwards in the interests of consistency. As you now have - I saw that one coming. If 'BGFYE' is too much of a mouthful, then drop the 'FYE', because all blue/grey units had them anyway

I'll beg to differ here, I'd find a dual system confusing. Not only that, but the BE and GE above are completely dissimilar in meaning and lacking in logic IMHO. Is there really any reason why the same codes can't be used?

Green, definitely. I was there, boyo

And an unusual location, as one of the comments says; I saw that not long after checking out that '40 on parcels' shot B)

Is that before or after they explore every avenue and leave no stone unturned?

This to me is by far the most annoying aspect of many behaviours these days. It's not so much that somebody does wrong, none of us are perfect; it's the arrogant justification of doing it as if it's perfectly normal and acceptable

Would it be worth touching them in with cream on a fine brush, at least the larger ones? You might not get it all, but it'll help lessen the contrast when you weather over them