Pennine MC

It probably would indeed, one from the ex-1101 - 11 batch. As you say they didnt last long: living in Hull and regularly being at Doncaster, York or elsewhere on the ECML, these machines were always around and yet I dont knowingly remember seeing one in green TOPS. Despite Bob's preoccupation with this blue/green crossover business, I do believe it is almost always down to light/emulsion, combined with natural changes in the paint as it ages and weathers. If you think about it in general terms, dark green and dark blue are in any case colours which are very easily confused in poor light. I have slides of my own from this period which show this blueish tinge, yet I know the locos were indisputably green when I took them. I dont personally think there's *too* much mystery about 24147 either - as you say, lots of 47s went through Crewe immediately pre-TOPS with patch painting, revarnishing and application of asymmetric numbers and yet looking as if they'd had a full repaint. Lasted long enough in theory, yes, but I'm inclined to suggest that the ScR was quite ambivalent (or at least inconsistent) about applying FYEs. A while ago somebody was asking for pics of any ScR 20s in GFYE and I dont think anything came up - most if not all of the native locos went from GSYE straight to blue, or were transferred to the LMR during that period. The Claytons and 27s probably go against this (which is why I say inconsistent) and yet only one or possibly two 26s are known to have been done - further evidence perhaps that Inverness at least wasnt in too much of a hurry about it.

Has to be one or both of those reasons, despite the comparison with the 26 I really don't believe it's green. 26011 is interesting in itself though, another TOPSed early blue with cabside arrows - think that one's been mentioned before

Wouldnt surprise me if that happened at times of peak demand - Speedlink in its heyday was essentially a flexible operation and could cater for spot' loads

Hard to tell for definite from that shot, but some machines had the holes plated quite neatly (with round plate rather than just square patches over); I suspect that's one of them

Almost certainly the remnants of an early blue repaint, when it would have had arrows on each cab and numbers somewhere aft of the doors

Cab roof was the most significant, yes; various other bits of the nose and nose furniture are a bit out in their disposition to each other, a bit like the first Bachmann 37/0s It's not particularly brave IMO, the tooling costs will probably be written off by now and Heljan probably judge they can keep shifting a few - just look at the 47 reruns. A lot of buyers won't even know of the Dapol model, those that do could well be thinking 'better the devil you know'

That's an interesting point and I thought it might come up. Goodnight Seriously, in some aspects a 45T tank could qualify as XP rated - in principle anyway. They were vac fitted (early builds, before air braking was specced) and they were 15ft wheelbase. Whether the *type* of vac brake made any difference, I'm not sure (I'm fairly sure some had the AFI brake, which worked differently and could have led to special measures when combined with passenger stock). Having said that, at the time these tanks were being built in the mid '60s, the XP rating was probably lapsing into disuse due to generally increased train speeds on the network generally and speed restrictions on SWB stock like Vanfits; with the tanks being intended very much as as block train animals, I doubt anybody ever considered a need arising for mixing them into passenger trains.

'Tis nice During that summer of '76 my main recollection is of a few of them lined up at Haymarket but we did see a pair bring an Aberdeen train into Waverley, I have a poor b/w print of it. Bob, those two link to the same pic, which they didnt earlier - plus I think it's the same train so one of the dates is wrong, with the blue/grey coach in formation I reckon it's '68 rather than '66 Sorry, back to the polishing

Yeah, it's not like they said the brakegear would be set for EM or anything

That number is about as central as it's possible to get Without surveying other shots, I would guess that was a St Rollox idiosyncracy rather than being connected to the type of headcode As Bob suggests, their weaknesses had been identified by the National Traction Plan (although there must also have been some thinking at one time to eliminate the 1160hp engines, as the 26s were also once included for early withdrawal). By the time of the mass 24 withdrawals c1976, the freight scene was changing - higher capacity air braked wagons in longer trains, 56s on the horizon... I went on a '24 Farewell' tour in '77 which suggests that the few that lasted past that date were on borrowed time. That middle link of Ron's, 24129 with its patched headlight apertures, actually reminds me of my favourite interlude for the HBS, during the few months they worked off Haymarket having been exchanged for 26/0s

Unfortunately I have to note another misident (though it's still one of the HBS) - that loco has a '4' as last digit so it's either '14 or '24

I'd think so, otherwise it infers that folk are only in the hobby to be the 'best', over and above all competition. IMO all that's necessary is to do the best that (preferably) you are able, or alternatively that you wish to.

Honourable mention here, in another connection

Well, it's still a 'train on which passengers are conveyed', but having found this post by Stationmaster Mike I'm going to STFU

Mmm, interesting At the risk of talking out of my @r$e again, I'd suspect that's got something to do with 6-wheelers not being permitted as part of passenger trains. There's been a recent thread on that

I cant see what the TT says Rich cos the link doesnt work, but my understanding of a 'true mixed' is one including unfitted vehicles and thus requiring a goods brake in rear of said vehicles. As you correctly surmise, Vanfits were XP-rated - hence there's no significant difference in that sense to a longer NPCCS-rated van like a CCT. I think such short wheelbase stock would have necessitated a speed restriction, though.

I dont know if Paul has pics of those particular ones, but the Fruit Ds I saw used to Barnstaple in the late 70s were TDB-numbered but with a 'traffic' TOPS code I've always thought the North Devon line was in a class of its own as regards freight interest. The pics on Ken Baker's site (sadly not currently available, as mentioned earlier) are nothing short of fantastic, revealing amongst other things that Barnstaple still warranted an 08 pilot until at least 1970 I can never definitively remember this despite having operated both of Ken's renditions of the place, but I think it is indeed that way round. I will make a point of checking with him.

Not sure that's the same one Grahame - the one in Chard's link also has a central bodyside arrow. I would guess that it's a 'standard' (sic) blue one that's acquired a door off another, possibly the early withdrawal 5068 which was an early repaint with arrows on the doors

I'm afraid I just do not buy this standard argument that gets trotted out, that sales of a particular model have been held back solely by some heinous error. Peaks going cheap? - oh, it's because they havent got the nose seam. Mk2 coaches not selling? - oh, it'll be the error in the grey. It might put a few off, but the reasons are IMO usually more complex than that - only now are folk realising that the Mk2 vehicles slow to move are the excess of brakes produced. Lots of the current crop of higher spec models - since the Hornby Q1 and possibly before - have ended up being sold cheaply due to diminished demand for one reason or another; it's just the way the market goes. In a lot of cases I believe it may even be factored in at the start; retailing is bursting with examples of overstocks, line-ends and less popular colours or whatever being liquidated to make room for new stocks, just as I could probably walk into Burtons today and buy a shirt for £15 or so that would have been nearer £30 in the autumn. TBH Paul, by mentioning the 33/1 and 33/2 in the same breath here I think you even defeat your own argument, because the /1 and /2 subclasses didnt have the incorrect cant profile that's caused so much angst. Admittedly they might not be as *popular* as the standard machines, but that's a different issue and is only to be expected given their smaller numbers. The stablemate 26 and 27 can also be found cheaply, and yet nobody has yet illustrated that they have some fatal flaw that's responsible for this. In fact the Bachmann 24/25 range is surely a good illustration of all these points - widely regarded as the least satisfactory of 'current spec' diesels, only occasionally to be found on clearance and yet new batches are regularly introduced - it still sells...

There were certainly rumours to that effect, do you have any evidence though?

I think, as Martin observed earlier, that you have a definite talent for answering your own questions

Well, I am