Pennine MC

Seems reasonable Bernard, given that steam locos also had tenders to augment the brake force and the introduction of brake tenders in many areas to make up for the loss thereof. I cant speak for the northern WCML, but there's also some info in Hendry's first colour wagon book about the Redhill - St Helens sand traffic running with a short fitted head, and you do see similar things in other areas Edit - only marginally OT, at the end of the footage that starts with the 2x25s on hoppers, there is a green/small yellow GRCW class 100 at Waverley, amongst the push/pulls and thus proving the livery was extant in 1971

Morning each, just catching up on this, it's been too long. Not that I dont like it, oh no sir, not at all sir; but if I say I was supposed to be going to the gym an hour ago, that should indicate how much it distracts me Were there any earlier builds, or is it just a case of how much of the beading had fallen off, as with some of the 50 footers? The 'silver' roof is intriguing - you do see this from time to time on maroon stock (both Mk1 and pre-Nat), and also Derby Lightweights, if not other DMUs. I think somebody did once explain it, and I have the vague notion it's something to do with aluminium in the paint mix? (and posting something so preposterous is bound to bring forth a withering correction) Could be anhydrite, could be the 25T ore hoppers that were used in some sort of non-ore traffic (clinker? cant recall OTTOMH). Or maybe sheeted sand? To add to what's already been said on this (all and any of which is a convincing explanation), they could just be sat in store awaiting disposal - you see a similar thing sometimes with ex-PO wooden minerals, after their theoretical 'last stand' of 1962/63. I dont think it's been mentioned but the farthest van is one of the LMS all-steel ones. The solo brown one is clearly LNER in origin but could be either 9 or 10ft wb I suppose - it's difficult to see any more detail of its construction. If it has corrugated ends, it could be one of the earliest, non-ventilated examples of that construction, which were withdrawn generally before the vented ones. That hence adds to the 'storage' theory but belies the 9ft wb one... Added to which the first three vehicles look to be Minfits (well, they'd have to be). It crosses my mind that it's maybe not (or not entirely) a coal train - Highfits were sometimes used on minerals traffics - one of those in shot looks to have white staining - and that could well have led to them being mixed with 16 tonners. Hardendale lime, perhaps? Also concur on the Fruit D, BTW FWIW

The wagons in question here weren't conversions, the Fidlers Ferry coal circuits AFAIK used existing MGRs. Despite the 3-day week, coal in general terms was still thought sufficiently bouyant to warrant the ordering of the first 56s, plus rebodying of large numbers of traditional mineral wagons. I think the other significant AB traffic over Woodhead was the BOC tankers, plus some Speedlink in later years - again all existing AB stock. And I doubt that even BR would have unthinkingly dual-braked (and MU-fitted) a fleet of locos that could only be used on one route purely because they stood still long enough :icon_confused:

Seems very odd then, that the passenger services are mentioned in such a context; in fact I've read it several times now and it's not at all clear what he is referring to. Doesnt make for a clear narrative, IMHO

Mmm, we seem to have lost the 1970s again there somehow. Not sure that that's an accurate reflection of the timeline, given that freight workings (and hence the requirement for maintaining the EM1s) continued for eleven years after passenger services finished. IIRC at the time, the rationale was indeed that the line would continue to serve as a freight artery (and coal traffic at least was still healthy) - why else would money have been spent on dual braking and MU-fitting a significant part of the EM1 fleet...

Must admit I'd not realised the significance of that post, with it not really being fully explained, and also I'd not spotted the overlength despite having compared the model with a kit when it first came out. Good job I'm not writing reviews Much my thoughts. It's very hard to see how this mistake has actually occurred, but with the van being longer than a normal merchandise van, it's not too evident. And I'm getting increasingly less bothered about such things as I get older - overall appearance and weathering are more important in conveying an impression in a layout context, I think I dont think so - anything else on an 11ft wb underframe tended to be more specialised and/or have more modern brake gear Generally that's true, yes (20 and a half, to be pedantic), although it depends on the couplings used - a lot of BR 1950s-built fitted stock with Instanters had the 18" fittings. I think shortening of buffers is a frequent manufacturing compromise though, possibly to make them less prone to 'snappage'

I'm fairly sure the thread on the old forum covered this - with most DMUs it happened from c1978 but IIRC opinion being that the SR sets were generally a tad later

Nonsense. Utter nonsense. It was a B17

I remember it from the turn of the 70s, which is frightening enough Good to have a recap, Mike.

It may be fairly typical - I ordered two (one for a mate), and the first two both had problems running short bonnet first. With no fixed layout to run them in on, I wasnt prepared to risk them not improving, so they were returned. We ended up getting through five locos before settling on two we were happy with (other problems included damaged plastic handrails), and even then, one is noisier than t'other, although with minimal lubrication (a dab of Vaseline on the visible gear - no dismantling), it did quieten after a few minutes running. I will say that Hattons have been as helpful as you could reasonably wish for - follow the return instructions on their website and return postage is refunded, so all it cost me was the time in reparcelling and going to the PO (which I did on a normal Saturday shopping trip). I do have my doubts though about the overall spec and QC on these models, and I'm not a habitual moaner about RTR. I just wish I could feel it had been a model I really wanted to buy, one that brings that little smile to your face like the 15 and 17, rather than one I felt I had to

Uh? I know you're excited, but take a breath mate Not sure at all of the relevance of the 33 comparison - nobody's saying it's impossible. But it has been exhaustively proven I think, that the 3D/207 is so comprehensively different as to be a completely different model to the 2H/3H/205 - and yet one which to the casual buyer looks little different. I dont know about anybody else, but whilst I enjoy speculation about things that have a chance of happening, too many threads now are being given over to what is effectively a tedious wishlist of everything the SR ever ran. * BTW the term is 'tumblehome' - Tumbledown is in the Falklands

Perhaps BTH left a gap at the bottom as well, and had to push it down a bit

As far as I'm aware, they're not members here, so no. But they are contactable by other means

In terms of mathematical progression, that bodes well for the 16.

In the paint mix, or down your neck Smashing stuff Chris, all of it.

Cos it's the 'done thing' Beats me as well Pete, and not just on 73s - Lima has its faults, sure, but some of the mouldings were very nicely done

Interesting as always, Pete. If you've got some duff buffers BTW, I'm sure Roger will change them

There was something on the old forum when they first came out, but it's good that the second batch is here - my mate wants some of these

Be careful though - there's a fair bit of evidence that Heljan's numbering doesnt necessarily respond to the usual methods and is sturdier than their base livery paints. It might be worth trying a small piece of very fine wet and dry, folded so that just the numbers are targeted

Which reminds me, have they minced Deltic 16 yet?

From 'The Free Dictionary' (Farlex): a. Relating to colors or color. b. Relating to color perceived to have a saturation greater than zero. Doesnt help much (in fact as definitions go, it's as vague as buggery ), but does suggest that any 'metallic' connection is a bit of a red herring

After a period in store 79961/4 were transferred to Buxton (LMR) in July '66 where they replaced the Park Royal Railbuses on the Millers Dale services. From the same site, a few tabs further on

Objectively, it doesnt, but I think it goes deeper than that. If a model presents a convincing appearance via a good weathering process, the 'suspension of disbelief' (something that you have to exercise, because otherwise you'd never enjoy viewing any model because you know it's a model) becomes a more willing process and you wont be so automatically be drawn to its shortcomings. We all have different trigger points for that suspension, of course, and we all have some things that will always jar with us, but I think the principle's sound.

I certainly grow tired of the oft-repeated notion that all blue/SYP locos or units were chromatic, because they werent; it was only ever a Swindon phenomenon, so couldnt have applied to the 25s or Peaks, for instance. Having said that, I've seen at least one shot of a Western with a noticeably metallic appearance, but it doesnt follow even from that that all SYP hydraulics were chromatic. I doubt the full answer will never be known, unless it's in one of the specialist hydraulic publications

That's because he's put about the idea you can run literally anything on it, from a Beattie well tank to a prototype Deltic