daveyb

There you go, I thought those twin-crane-on-a-flat things were a modern idea modelled first by LGB!

People may have seen this previously, some of you elder railway employees may even have been shown it on the job. It is another fantastic example of how the British Transport Films (and other industries' film units) produced clear, concise, unequivocal material for training and information. What is truly amazing in this day and age is how quickly everything could be brought in to assist (though I do realise that it would not be as quick as the film might suggest). It was not efficient, I am sure, but it was in order to return service to normal in the shortest possible time and not wait for the ambulance chasers. I'm sure that finding a complete breakdown train ready to move, a light engine to remove carriages (before an investigation has been started, let alone completed), a fleet of spare buses and drivers, one ambulance and a doctor to treat everyone and all those ready personnel on hand would be an operating officer's dream today (not to mention the WRVS, TWG, WI or church committee lady to make tea). When did it all change? Both from an operating perspective and a rules perspective. Clearly privatization has had an impact but the 1958 alternative routes and arrangements went a long time before that. The You Tube notes on this film are very informative, to scroll down to see the details of where it was filmed, etc. I hope this is a cheer for a Sunday!

In 'Diesels out of Kings Cross' there are few shots of a 15 or 16 paired with 30/31 hauling rubbish on the GN Hatfield / Luton branch to Blackridge tip near Wheathamstead

Where and when was that calamity? I spent 5 happy years posted to Brüggen and we never had a train there even once! It was Javelin Barracks by then so no need for fuel or bomb deliveries... the Royal Signals had ruined it by then. That line also served Arsbeck (all lifted by my time in thd 2000s) which was a training area but had formerly been the site of 3 BPAD fuel depot. (Base Petroleum and Ammunition Depot, the rear stores for pushing the stocks forward). The line took a long and circuitous route around to the south side of Moenchengladbach. The fuel depot had long closed as supply lines across Europe were reinstated, but ammo was still being stored at Bracht until 1995 when it was road and rail moved back to UK and some 'forward'to Wulfen. The last remaining fuel depot - Pet Det - at Warendorf near Gutesloh closed in 1995. The Army loco at Wulfen was moved to MoD Kineton for a while but being continental loading gauge was limited in its use and little used until its disposal.T The Royal Engineers had the trains again by then, after the Royal Corps of Transport had been in charge as they were at Longmoor, before them going back to the Royal Logistic Corps and finally being wound up a Reserve operation around 2002. The two RE railway men at Wulfen (Mick Swann and Mel Chappel) were the happiest soldiers I ever met!!! Their civvies and they had a splendid bar set up in the remains of a former ambulance train, alongside the former MT hangers dating from WW2 when the rest of the ammo depot had been rebuilt in the late 80s early 90s

Yes, you're half right, of course, I meant Reddish. I've never had a dry weekend in Manchester!!!

Were the EM2s painted with the same paint? There are accounts of Longsight mixing their own from Nanking Blue, Deep Bronze Green and whatever they had to make the EM2 'electric blue'. That might account for it's longevity. Applying it with a brush and coating it with a varnish would change its colour, too.

The flat tailed rat was dropped due to cost in the mid 00s. Im not sure that all the SD70ACU received a beaver, but They re not as common around here as the GECs. There are significant variations on the basic design. Hood units (GP/SD) changed in the 70s when CN developed the safety (wide) cab for their SD40-2 and Centuries, which has become almost a standard feature of road locos. That essentially is a return to the cowl/nose locos of the 40s and 50s (E and F varitions). Many of the the passenger service locos reverted to single ended cowl designs in the 70s, simply losing the external walkways (FP40 etc through to Acela). Most freight locos kept the walkways but are single ended hood units. Its only really smaller, switcher types that keep the 'drive both ways' cab on a cowl design. They have evolved rather than had a revolutionary redesign. In short, I'm sorry to disagree but that 'basic design' of one varies hugely and really dates back nearly 170 years (engine one end, cab, other bits behind the cab - could describe a steam loco, an F Unit, a GP, or a new Acela type). They have never really bothered with two cabs... those some exist

That also suggests CP have gone back to the Golden Beaver... Yet another variation on the modern red (post Action Red/multimark/system).

I had heard that a major reason for the change to open seating was to do with it being easier to clean. I have fond memories of Mk1 FK/BFK rides to Lime St from Euston or Watford Junction on my way to my grandmother's in the 70s. Bouncy, sprung, horse-hair stuffed seats in grey moquette with only a tiny table under the window for a pop and a coffee, wondering what would happen if we opened the the ventilator windows beyond the arrows...

That press release also mentioned there may be further batches built for the Central, Bakerloo and Waterloo & City lines. Those trains are almost 25 years junior to the Piccadilly line '73 stock, so longevity is clearly dwindling as stock becomes more lightweight. The 90s stock has had more than its fair share of problems over the years. The various 67/72/73 evolutions show the benefits of a fairly constant renewal program allowing that evolution over revolution. It will be very interesting to see how the new stock fairs with no doubt a lot of lessons from S Stock introduction. I am sure Siemens will thoroughly test the early German built stock at Wildenrath before it sets foot (wheel?) on British metals. Time will tell if there is a Class 56-like batch distinction.

When did the last explosion in the Irish Sea occur? Never, that's when. There are lots of occasions when cable and pipe laying operations have disturbed uxo in that area but without incident so far. One of the issues is that the uxo tends to migrate due to changes in sea density and salinity affecting the buoyancy of said debris. Last deep sea dump was Sep 91 into the English Channel/North Sea well off the NW coast of the Netherlands. The ammunition was prepare at CAD Bracht and was obsolete and surplus WMR stock following Options for Change in 1990. The time frame for this proposal means very few of us will see it even start. Not worth frothing about...

This is very impressive work. Where are you? Near Puget Sound? Which CFB is holding your pictures hostage? I have a similar situation at CFB Suffield, though we don't have any 7.5in railway at Suffield, just the CPR mainline at the bottom of the road...

Hi Dave, The second photo is not an ISO, its a specific role closed flatrack, you can see the lift bar set into the LH end. Also note the conlocks on the bottom appear like 'feet', not part of the frame of the box. I've no idea what role it fulfills. That third pic, LH, green, container is a real relic. Numbered in the RCTU series and painted deep bronze green would make it over 15 years old then. The last RCTU boxes were red before the switch to RLCU numbers sometime after Apr 1993. All the RLCU I ever saw were shades of red, from almost orange to oxide primer colour. Nice to see the PFA wagons in use. I always thought they were a versatile little wagon that got overlooked for its usefulness... Though I fully appreciate the economics of the KFAs, etc as what will hold a lot will hold a little, for fewer wheels!

Standard ISO containers, moved by road and rail. As FC says above, Didcot sees almost all rail ammunition traffic as it moves to Kineton or up from Marchwood. There is a fair amount moved to the Scottish former Navy (RNAD) ammunition depots. Again, as FC says, the ISOs are fairly non-descript. Some are hired, some are owned, some are bought off hire. The orange/red full side opening type are MoD owned and were all originally numbered with RCTU or RLCU but they, too, have changed. There are blue full side openers seemingly randomly numbered, but are RN 'owned'. Full side openers are much easier to load/unload with rough terrain forklift trucks when on operations, but their tare weight is much higher. They also cost more... No prizes for guessing why we have fewer now! It doesn't matter they are easier to use if you can save a few quid buying them. Much older (70s/80s) full side openers had doors at both ends, a full side of doors (two doors with a hinge in the middle) and a 3/4 height square door on the opposite side. Later ones have one end door and both full side openers, again, two doors hinged in the middle like a VDA. Ammunition supply and management has been tri-service, in most cases, since about 1999. There are still special to arm types and storage but it is all managed by Defence Equipment and Support at Abbeywood, and held by Defence Munitions. I was under the impression that the GPV/Mink design was all metal to avoid fires/sparks/embers/static getting to the load, which as I mentioned earlier, was usually a bulk explosive not in an ammunition item. I would expect they were wood lined originally, again, to avoid sparking. No nailed boots was a rule for loading ammunition trains. I was also surprised to see explosives trains (class 7 noted above) at Llantrisant as late as the 70s. I was under the impression the production of explosives ceased much earlier when the plan to move the Mint there from London was hatched.

My experience is purely military explosives and relatively recent, but the type of explosives affects how much can be carried, what separation is required and where it can be held. I never saw GPV or Mink in mainline service, but we had a few in the internal fleet. They were specifically designed to avoid sparks (from grating ferrous metals) and were intended for explosives not in explosive articles, so bulk for use as is or to be put into ammunition items. Heavy cased articles (e.g. shells and bombs) used to be moved in plain vans or open wagons and were secured buy chocks, but nothing has been moved like that for a long time. The reason for the change was to aid efficient handling by mechanical handling equipment (MHE - forklifts) rather than moving them with lots of men. Another point for quarrying explosives is that it is often mixed on site. The use of gunpowder reduced significantly as safer slurry explosives were developed, meaning that the components wouldn't necessarily be explosive until mixed and would then require a detonator rather than a burning fuze. Commercial explosives (such as Roburite from Gathurst) had different (very old) regulations and were only updated in 2006, previously being regulated under the various Gunpowder Acts and Regulations from the turn of the century and the Explosives Acts and regulations from the 1930s and 50s. Most ammunition now moves in ISO containers where possible, in fact I have loaded 34 20ft ISOs with explosives over the past week. We used to use VAA and VGA/VKA for palletized loads in UK and HBIS or HBLLNS ferry type vans in Germany. VKAs are still used between ammo depots and ports for some pallet loads, but far less than they used to be.

My first ever train set had the medium wheelbase van in the Beatles set. It was a black 0-4-0 tank No 6042, a van and a girder sided open wagon on the same chassis as the van. Mine had a boat on it but it also came with wheelsets as a load. That was before all this licence rubbish, but it was a Cadbury branded van in the Dairy Milk purple/cream with gold script name. Did those vans have a prototype?

Probably not the right section... I would ask on a scale models radio control forum. Those in that field have much more liPo experience than in model railway applications.

Does this kit cover the ones built for the Royal Ordnance Factories? Or did I miss the bit where they were the 0-6-0 version? Thanks

Yes, poorly worded there, for certain! I meant similar in design rather than 'that'll do'.

Having caught up with the complete thread (it took some reading) and looking at the superb models, I'd love to join the fray... Not sure which suits, but likely an MoD Steelman Royale. Have I missed any more on Michael's background project of the EM1 ? I bought some Heljan/Olivia's versions but they were a disappointment - sold them on. It would be good to finally get an accurate model to market, even if it sat on a Heljan chassis (though the NE Bo-Bo frames mentioned a few post ago may be close enough).

I would argue that it is equally irrelevant as too many external variances will affect the objectivity of any testing for a situation which will always be open to subjectivity because no two events with two different people can ever be the same or exactly repeated.

Having been subject to psychometric testing during a career that a great many people would find stressful to the point of frightening, I would suggest it's not very effective. Despite the testing being carried out by some very experienced people with well funded scientific support from a Govt agency, most of us were intelligent enough to work out the answers required rather than giving the 'reaction' sought. Some of us passed then displayed,regularly, the attributes the testing was supposed to weed out. Some of us placed other people in danger (more danger, it was a dangerous situation anyway). Some of us were assessed ideal but invariably failed to make the required decisions quickly enough, compromising delivery of the effect necessary. Some of us who passed are dead. Very early in my career, was deemed unsuitable for trade training or even for further service, but we were short of people so I was trained anyway and managed 25 years without incident. Psychometric testing is definitely not the answer here; this was simply an unlucky course of events initiated by a lapse in concentration, the cause of which can be legislated against if not eradicated.

We always used to load 'doors inward' on standard end-door containers for explosives if we had a lifter... often not an option and often we used our own (RCTU or RLCU) full side openers, loaded while on flats. I'm not sure we even have MoD owned containers anymore The incident you note above was a number of anti-tank mines that were stolen from a VKA when stopped at a signal near Arpley. It wasn't discovered until Didcot but we did get them all back in the end... I was on duty for that incident!

I bought a Rocket, and I have ordered an APT... I was 10 when we went to the Rainhill cavalcade and these were stars amongst many, so i wanted to relive a memory. Similarly, my father worked for LT for 32 years and I remember watching red trains with Grandpa while Grandma and Mum went shopping in Barnet, so im ordering an Efe 38 stock train. I live in Canada and have Gauge 1 for the garden and a small CP plank in the cellar so none of those are going to get run, but I will display them; the memories are priceless and the modern models are a fantastic sight.

In my area (admittedly a VERY different pitch to UK) there were already worries about city centre office revenue. That trend looks to be cemented by the current Covid restrictions. Despite the comparatively low rate of infection, the office workforce seems petrified of even leaving home. Retail numbers are down and online purchases are significantly up, but the commute here is completely different. Out here on the Prairies we don't have any passenger trains, and in Calgary there is limited tram availability and a very suburban bus service. Lessons around the world need to be learnt before leaping into new franchise structures and new Govt spending. Before paying for a reduction in season ticket revenue, the 'Western World has got to work out how to pay for furlough and equivalent, and for a testing and treatment regime. Covid has not settled yet, the future is as ever, unknown...