micklner

I have no idea !! I will have a look today. GW Rollers are recomended go for the 10 inch version far more useful, the Wheel Puller however is dire!!

Hornby have a big problem, the competition. The sudden glut of new companies over the last few years producing the same in quality , or in some cases far better quality products, again at the same/similar or even less prices. They need to look at the range(s) and decide what actually makes the money, and dump the rest as they are throwing good money at old goods/tat which no one wants anymore.

The NER/LNER version used a Plate wagon.

Thanks Mike, very interesting. Luckily I have added the 10BA screw in the right place. Your comment re restricting side play does that apply to OO as well please ?. The LRM B16 Bogie spacer is very narrow there are about 2mm gaps on each side when assembled. As below. I have seen a number of comments on other threads stating pivot the Bogie at the front , so far I have never seen the actual set up for that type of arrangement . Has anyone got photos ??. thanks

Yes a great shame the Radiators were not added to the Roof for the Rails LNER version. I sent my one back for that exact reason and was refunded. Rails were told at the time of announcement the LNER version was simply wrong as presented . Looking at the photos available it would have been a very simple matter of confirming the sizing , and then producing the Radiators and Exhaust system as a add on part . The buyer could then have fitted it , if they wished. It would have been much better idea, than ignoring a very prominent feature .

I will happily admit I have never even noticed any Tumblehome prior to you mentioning it. None on my Nucast version!! and after painting will it be visible from any normal distance ? Good luck with the build , a lot of interesting detail have been found , well done.

Mike Have you seen my comment re how the Bogie, how is it supposed to be fixed to the chassis?? Nothing in the instructions !!🤪

Well LRM design woes are now nicely covered , thanks. The B16 is at least now running well . A lot of lead has been added to the Boiler .Nothing screwed down at the moment. It had a mysterious short on running. The kit front steps were very thin and flimsy as supplied . I added 0.45mm behind the steps, which then made them much stronger. I then finally discovered the short was caused by the Con Rods rubbing against the added wire, filed the wire back and short was gone, I now know why the steps are made so thin , as there is almost zero clearance. As I said before how can this loco be able to ever run with EM/P4 Wheels spacing ??? .

PDK version http://www.pdkmodels.co.uk/PDK 62. B16-1.html

Chas, Have you tried to ask the builder of the one in the Worsley built Sentinel photograph, of his bending method?.

Thanks Mike . My main concern is the Driving Wheels lack of sideplay. The Bogie appears to have plenty of space. I will post on here, I have about 3ft curves at best. I forgot to ask , how have you set the Bogie up on your models?. It is not mentioned at all in the instructions . There is a large gap between the underneath of the Cylinders and the top of the Bogie. At the moment all there is a 10BA mounting screw sitting in the gap. cheers Mick

No glue needed , you need a Postbox and a Stamp.

No idea why you are gluing them ? Its not needed , much easier using a simple GW Models quatering press. Make a angle on the rear of each wheel, with a oversize drill before placing in the press.

Mike No problem at all in what you have said. I do wonder at times why makers of similar kits do not get together, and agree to use one range of castings. This would save money and time for everybody. This sadly is how the kit is listed on the LRM website. http://www.londonroadmodels.com/locomotives_pages/ne_locomotives.php Mine has about 1.5mm total sideplay on the drivers, this was only achieved by filing the axle bearings flush with the frames. I have serious doubts about how it will manage any curves at all . Do your models run ok on curves ? According to LRM this below describes the new footplate etch. "This footplate also provides more lateral clearance for the driving wheels, to readily accommodate EM and P4 wheels or more sideplay for tighter curves in OO." Thanks for your responses. Mick

Yes I totally agree re accurate fine detail. Sadly in the B16 case, the items already listed are missing or totally wrong , all are simply basic castings and small etches, other than the Side Coal plates which are larger and too long .Luckily the majority of the missing/wrong parts have been found or replaced with correct/better items from other suppliers.

Some additional photos re the Fire Iron support. The bracket is clearly above the top of the Tender in all the photos. Obvious as not a lot of use if its lower and buried under the Coal. I only photo I have found of a slotted plate is also of a Q7 Tender. I have found photos where the front plate is missing completly in that corner of the Tender. All photos posted for research only use.

A short answer to the last post 6 A&B However Part 6 in the modern world should'nt exist. Trade Descriptions & Sales of Goods Acts apply to this as a product , just the same as any other item we all pay money for. This kit is £175.00 . That is without buying all the missing parts, wheels ,gearbox , motor , paint etc. in the region of £300.00 in total. It was'nt hard to actually build , but it was time consuming/frustrating . This applies to many other kits not just the B16 which are of the same era, or standard. To actually identify the missing parts , poor description/instructions or simply non existent description/instructions for how the kit could actually be built should'nt be necessary . Most of this has been said already in this thread, and elsewhere on numerous occasions by many people. In this case the only reason I managed to build the kit was because I was kindly sent the 7mm version of the instructions for the same kit, otherwise it would have never been built. Even today I have been caught out again over design defects/sizes in the Tender etches. Yes the etches are wrong, therefore they should be redone before selling the kit . Obviously this increases the kit price I presume. Personally I would happily pay the extra up front, instead having the hassle to buy from other suppliers. If you can even then you can find the needed parts. It would again make it much easier to build a proper complete kit from the start, instead of a semi scratch builders version. Any Kit should'nt be simply for sale when such known problems exist and in this case identified. Or the alternative is that are the known issues should all be listed in the actual advertisments for the product. I have spoken to John at LRM re all the issues, he states he is considering extra etches, castings and better instructions for this kit.

Exactly and well said. However some of the other obvious problems are :- How many Loco and other kits in 4mm are now sold nowdays ? If sales are low, a large amount of finance is therefore tied up for the seller. Thus preventing any other kits being made or improved for perhaps a considerable period, or even years in some cases. The vast majority of kits for sale are from years ago, very few new kits are being produced . Very few ever appear to be updated either. In LRM kits for example, it appears virtually all having been taken over by the current owner, from previous makers, some of those from many years ago. e.g ex Geo Norton kits 1970's or a even earlier era??. LRM claims that many of the kits are now made with new castings etc being supplied , on how many of those kits I have no idea. The ex Steve Barnfield B16 kit is from 30 years ago , as I now know very little has been done in the way of improvement in any way in the kit I was supplied with this year. 30 years ago it was perhaps cutting edge in design , I have no idea of its status at that time. Many things have moved on in 30 years, perhaps Railway Modelling needs a big shake up in methods , designs , quality etc etc. Current improvements in r.t.r has realistically consigned many kits to the sales bin or low sales at best. This is not helped by the asking prices for wheels etc etc to complete the kits as well. Any kit is now scary money prices , when you actually add up the total cost . One of the obvious reasons ebay and the like are so succesful.

Mike Re the Firebox bottom Washout plugs . Another strange omission from the kit, all the B16's had them from the early 1930's. I have made mine from 2mm Brass axle bushes with the top flange filed as thin as possible. Markits do the actual Plugs in turned Brass slightly undersize for 2mm hole. I cheated and superglued the plugs in place inside the bearing . I think soldering them in would have been very awkward to do, keep them central inside the Bush would have been a real pain. Re the well known Tender photo above the kit says BR period, the same photo in NER Locos by Hoole states in use in 1939. I went for the simpler front on my Tender.

Mike and Richard. Only via Janet his daughter a few months ago, he was progessing well at that time . Hopefully, I have been contacted today re the Toolbox saga and hopefully he has some spare ones. Once I know re the Toolboxes I will then email Janet to see how Arthur is, at the same time as finding out if she has any castings. Janet said the last time I emailed her that she hope to keep the kits going.

On the photos I have the Fire Iron stand was higher than the Coal Plate on all of them , no slot obvious.

Thanks Mike. A new kit is exactly what is needed. !! As said earlier I have made LRM aware of the kits multiple failings as regards to the Loco , the Tender can now also be added to the list. LRM even list "it" as seperate item for £50 !!! Another message will be sent to LRM re the Tender as well. Mick

Dave Bradwell only offers the Tender castings at £12 plus postage for a complete set and he will not split them. I have chucked enough money at this god awful kit already . I would probably wreck the Tender taking the others off as well , they can stay. Unless I can find something else in my spares. DJH are far worse IMHO!!. I have just looked at Hornby's Q6 they are wrong shape as well !! Thanks

Thanks for the info. The Tool boxes are from Dave Bradwell at a guess they are J27 versions. The LRM versions in the kit are just lumps of a similar shape. Any ideas where some could be obtained please ? The Coalguards are what came with the kit, which if you read my previous comments re its quality, it may make things more understandable . They appear to match the photos I have . Again where can you source any any alternatives? cheers Mick

B16 Tender ready for paint.