Oxford Rail announces - OO gauge GWR Dean Goods

[6892 Oakhill Grange]

About time the deans got a new model.

And I was just wondering what Hornbys new exclusive face book press releases would be over the next few months.

Oxford Rail are taking a bit of a risk. Hornby could knock up a new chassis quote quickly (no proto research, no laser scans etc) and armed with some new boiler fittings and some Chinese labour to paint the cab fittings they could out manoeuvre this.

 

There was very little wrong with the Airfix DG.

 

Oakhill

[WD0-6-0]

Oxford Rail are taking a bit of a risk. Hornby could knock up a new chassis quote quickly (no proto research, no laser scans etc) and armed with some new boiler fittings and some Chinese labour to paint the cab fittings they could out manoeuvre this.

There was very little wrong with the Airfix DG.

Oakhill

They won't get it developed before this one is out and they'd be silly to try. Besides I imagine there is a lot more work than that required to do that. They'd be much better off starting from scratch with another class of loco (I have several in mind but this is neither the time or place to wish list)

[Dunsignalling]

Oxford Rail are taking a bit of a risk. Hornby could knock up a new chassis quote quickly (no proto research, no laser scans etc) and armed with some new boiler fittings and some Chinese labour to paint the cab fittings they could out manoeuvre this.

 

There was very little wrong with the Airfix DG.

 

Oakhill

That's always supposing the tools are in a decent state; they are, after all, over 40 years old and Hornby haven't produced anything from them in a long while.

 

If they were still usable, I think we'd have seen a loco-driven Dean Goods released alongside (or soon after) the ex-Airfix 2P and 4F revivals. 

 

In any case, changing the boiler fittings effectively means a complete re-tool, refurbishing and modifying such elderly moulds would probably take longer than doing the whole thing from scratch.  

 

John

[The Stationmaster]

Oxford Rail are taking a bit of a risk. Hornby could knock up a new chassis quote quickly (no proto research, no laser scans etc) and armed with some new boiler fittings and some Chinese labour to paint the cab fittings they could out manoeuvre this.

 

There was very little wrong with the Airfix DG.

 

Oakhill

 

They won't get it developed before this one is out and they'd be silly to try. Besides I imagine there is a lot more work than that required to do that. They'd be much better off starting from scratch with another class of loco (I have several in mind but this is neither the time or place to wish list)

In reality we don't have the faintest idea whether or not Hornby are working on one and if they are (which we don't know) we don't know how far they might, or might not, have got with it.  The Q6, in more or less production state, came as a surprise to many people although in its case there were at least rumours about it early last year.  Someone might have heard rumours about Hornby working on one of these but if they have they are keeping their mouths shut  so discussing it would seem to be pure conjecture.

[Phil Parker]

They would have to work fast too. This isn't a 3D print Oxford are showing, it's a fully working model made from real tools. If you wanted to produce a spolier, it would need both loco and tender chassis tooling created from scratch and nowadays we expect more from these than the wheels being in roughly the right place.

 

Then what do you have?

 

An old model with a new chassis. Would it be better than the Oxford one? No.

 

Would it be cheaper? Probably not.

 

So why would anyone other than obsesive red box fans buy it? I can't see Hornby wanting to bother, the Oxford Radial is currently soaking up sales of that loco (I know some are waiting for the Hornby version but the OR one does seems to be shifting) and there are plenty of other prototypes out there demanding attention. If there is anyone looking at Oxford, they will be planning more models that can be produced in a million liveries. The Sentinel and Peckett will do a lot for the cash flow.

[melmerby]

Oxford Rail are taking a bit of a risk. Hornby could knock up a new chassis quote quickly (no proto research, no laser scans etc) and armed with some new boiler fittings and some Chinese labour to paint the cab fittings they could out manoeuvre this.

 

There was very little wrong with the Airfix DG.

 

Oakhill

As long as it was a "Railroad" item that would be feasible without the new boiler fittings, anything more IMHO would need to be done from scratch.

 

I can't see Hornby competing head on with this unless they have managed to keep a new-tool version totally secret up to now!

 

Keith

[6892 Oakhill Grange]

They would have to work fast too. This isn't a 3D print Oxford are showing, it's a fully working model made from real tools. If you wanted to produce a spolier, it would need both loco and tender chassis tooling created from scratch and nowadays we expect more from these than the wheels being in roughly the right place.

 

Then what do you have?

 

An old model with a new chassis. Would it be better than the Oxford one? No.

 

Would it be cheaper? Probably not.

 

So why would anyone other than obsesive red box fans buy it? I can't see Hornby wanting to bother, the Oxford Radial is currently soaking up sales of that loco (I know some are waiting for the Hornby version but the OR one does seems to be shifting) and there are plenty of other prototypes out there demanding attention. If there is anyone looking at Oxford, they will be planning more models that can be produced in a million liveries. The Sentinel and Peckett will do a lot for the cash flow.

Take your old Dean goods and examine the boiler wash out plugs. Then compare this with the Mainline Collet Goods of the same era. The plugs on the DG are simply famtatic The only area that OR have improved upon is below the running plate and the rivets on the same!

As long as it was a "Railroad" item that would be feasible without the new boiler fittings, anything more IMHO would need to be done from scratch.

 

I can't see Hornby competing head on with this unless they have managed to keep a new-tool version totally secret up to now!

 

Keith

I have just compared my Mainline on Comet with the photos on this thread. Above the running plate the only thing I see going for the OR version are the rivets on the running plate. These are nice. Below the running plate, OR have improved dramatically on the older model, love the wheel centres / axle ends and the brake pull rods. Inside the cab, the only improvement over the older model is the plank effect, If anyone is watching and there is time for changes, please can we have cab seats and an ATC bell, where appropriate for livery. The safety valve cover seems behind where Bachmann had got to, so please can we have a better representation of the valves inside the cover.

 

The 2500 gal tender looks good.

 

My Mainline on Comet has so far cost over 300 quid, taken 150 hours and still does not run after 6 years fiddling. My just ordered OR one has cost 95 + pp and took 10 mins to buy and will run much better.

 

Oakhill

[coachmann]

It would be useful if someone would post an image of their Mainline or Hornby 'Dean Goods' so that we could all share this knowledge of old and new.

[J C Fenton]

These guys at Oxford are stars.  They don't shilly shally around - they just go for it.

 

I'm having a couple of these.

[john dew]

It would be useful if someone would post an image of their Mainline or Hornby 'Dean Goods' so that we could all share this knowledge of old and new.

 

 

Will this do?

 

Regards from a very damp Vancouver

 

John

[BG John]

It would be useful if someone would post an image of their Mainline or Hornby 'Dean Goods' so that we could all share this knowledge of old and new.

Is this any use? It's been like this for several decades, so I don't remember what it looked like when I bought it .

 

It's why I might buy an Oxford one, although if takes the same time to make the necessary changes, my executors will have to finish it for me!

[Craigw]

As it has not been mentioned thus far (that I have seen) it might be worth noting that there was a fairly significant variation in the Dean Goods. 

 

The early locos - 2301 -2450 had a narrower footplate (6" narrower), plain coupling rods and a different cab cut out.

 

If the model is based on 2516 (as seems likely) then it will only be suitable for a loco in the range from 2451-2580. 2491 - 2510 were rebuilt as 3901 class tanks between 1907-1910.

 

That said, it does look very nice indeed. Finally a model comes out that would be useful for my mid 1920s era and I already have a finished Finney model and another one to build.

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

[coachmann]

Thanks for a peek at the earlier Dean Gods. As far as appearances go, it doesn't look such a bad model. 

[Edwardian]

I recall that it was not at all a bad representation of the class, though it was tender drive.

[melmerby]

I recall that it was not at all a bad representation of the class, though it was tender drive.

Tender drive because it was an Airfix model that was in their catalogue but only appeared after Airfix Model Railways had been bought by Palitoy (Mainline) as a Mainline model with an Airfix number:

Note the GWR version was 2516 in the catalogue!

http://www.airfixrailways.co.uk/DeansGoods.htm

 

General Mills then sold Mainline to Dapol and Hornby eventually bought the Airfix tools from Dapol.

AFAIK Hornby have done little to the original Airfix design.

 

Keith

 

EDIT the majority of "Mainline" tools were always owned by Kader hence Mainline designs generally ending up with Bachmann

Edited January 31, 2016 by melmerby

[melmerby]

Here's 4 views of my Hornby one (R2064):

Untouched apart from DCC decoder

 

It has a decoder in the firebox as there was no room in the tender and a plug of lead in the boiler to replace the removed mazak weight originally provided.

 

Keith

[coachmann]

Melberby's model looks okay. Cumbersome looking driving wheels have let many a 'lightweight' design of 0-6-0 down and they do here.  Let it down so let us hope any new models has finer wheels.

Edited January 31, 2016 by coachmann

[melmerby]

Melberby's model looks okay. Cumbersome looking driving wheels have let many a 'lightweight' design of 0-6-0 down and they do here.  Let it down so let us hope any new models has finer wheels.

This is a 35 year old design and I think it generally holds up well. it's a pity about the plastic tender wheels with outside gearing.

If they were metal and the gears were on the inside it would have been a major improvement in look.

However, IMHO It was  much better than the "Tri-ang" era products of the period

 

I've thought of a new chassis for it but keep expecting re-tooled model to appear, so never bothered.

Looks like Oxford Rail have obliged.

 

Keith

[DavidR]

I have a Mainline Dean Goods, bought in the late '80s. It was never a good runner and despite taking the motor and gears to task it has always squealed and run poorly. I was considering converting it (as per 'Knobhead' of this parish) using a 4F tender drive unit, but I have decided that life is too short and ordered an Oxford Rail model last week.

[Quarryscapes]

I have a Mainline, a Hornby and a Dapol Dan Goods in various states of undress and it has to be said the running is actually very good, exceptionally good considering it's aged mechanism! All 3 are in various states of conversion (including one to a Stella 2-4-0)

A few queries - have Oxford 3D scanned 2516? Is that a 2500 gallon tender I spy? EDIT: Doesn't look like it on the EP, but the CAD pics certainly show one.

 

I have skimmed through the thread, apologies if I missed the relevant posts. 

 

Edited to add: My finger slipped and I just pre ordered a GWR green one, oops! 

Edited January 31, 2016 by Quarryscapes

[JSpencer]

I have a Mainline Dean Goods, bought in the late '80s. It was never a good runner and despite taking the motor and gears to task it has always squealed and run poorly. I was considering converting it (as per 'Knobhead' of this parish) using a 4F tender drive unit, but I have decided that life is too short and ordered an Oxford Rail model last week.

If it squealed, if probably means that it needs oil on the motor bearings.

[Edwardian]

I am starting to think that I must dig out my childhood Mainline Dean Goods and give it a new lease of life (if it will work!), as it is rather better even than I remembered.  Of course, I would still want several of Oxford.  For me, it is likely to prove the most useful release in years.

 

With 5'2" drivers, spaced, front to rear at 7'3" and 8'3" centres, presumably it could be adapted to many other uses.

 

Staying with the Great Western:

 

• If the wheels could be replaced with ones for outside frames, the numerous Armstrong Goods would seem possible (the wheel centres being only an inch out at 7'4" and 8'4"). 

 

• The 6 Cambrian Railways R Stephenson 0-6-0s of 1903 (GW 844 Class), had the same wheel centres as the Dean Goods, and looked rather like in GW rebuilt state.

 

• I wonder if the centre axle will be the driven one on the Oxford model?  Removing the front wheels could create a 2-4-0, though most Great Western 2-4-0s had 8'6" centres to the coupled wheels (generally larger, of course, though the Stella had 5'2" drivers).  If you can live with a millimetre less between wheel centres, and can re-wheel to either larger drivers and/or cranks for outside frames, you can have pretty much any GW 2-40 you like. 

 

• More intriguing, removal and replacement of the rear wheels might produce an 0-4-2.  The 517 tank (the precursor to the 4800/14XX, but much prettier) had 5'2" drivers at 7'4" centres.

 

• A 2-4-0T, Small Metro Tank, had 8'3" centres to the driving wheels.  

 

• Ex-Barry Railway No.s 1322 and 1323 (2-4-2Ts) might also be possible.

Turning to other railways:

 

• SE&CR O Class had 5'2" Drivers at 7'4" and 8'2" centres.

 

Doubtless there are many more conversion candidates.

[BG John]

Presumably Mainline ones will drop in price when it appears, and tender drive means you can knock the chassis about more easily. It opens up more possibilities with the body too, if you don't have to worry about fitting a motor. Of course that assumes that the tender drive still works.

[ady77014]

Anyone with some talent could turn the new 'Dean Goods' chassis in to a '3900' tank fairly well.... Just like the GWR did....

[Dunsignalling]

Anyone with some talent could turn the new 'Dean Goods' chassis in to a '3900' tank fairly well.... Just like the GWR did....

Somebody like Oxford Rail, perhaps?