Andrew Barclay 14" & 16" 0-4-0ST in OO Gauge

[tomparryharry]

Thanks for this very helpful level of engagement.

 

Do the existing four cab variants include the one with long oval windows per the photie of Tiny at the top of the previous page?

The oval windows on a Barclay are an 'after market sales accessory', as sold by Barclays themselves. As sold, Barclays sold the locomotive with an open back, with an sales option to include the cab back sheet. I'd suggest that 'Tiny' has gained a backsheet, and it's made it to the front sheet.

 

Victory (AB2201/45) has a factory-fitted backsheet, as does 'Tom Parry' (AB2015/35). The vertical, oval, backlights are quite distinctive to Barclays, and I'm pleased to note that Hattons appear to have caught this very well.  

 

Ian.

[PenrithBeacon]

Thanks for that, there's a lot of detail under there too, very nice.

 

It looks like it will be interesting to regauge one but maybe not impossible, a Hornby Q6 didn't beat me so I think it'll be worth a try.

 

Even as a pre production sample that's very impressive.

I think it's impressive too. If you do manage to convert to P4/EM I for one would be grateful for a thread on RMweb

Regards

[Andy W]

One question if possible to answer - how difficult would it be to remove the number plate from the cab sides? I'm tempted to buy two and turn them into 'private ownership' with different running numbers and personalised nameplates.

I've not seen anything to say that these will have separately applied number (or name) plates as sold. Have I missed something?

I assumed they would be printed on, in which case Narrow Planet (no connection) already produce Barclay worksplates to order with your choice of works number and year that could simply be stuck over the printed ones. They also do custom nameplates in a variety of sizes and fonts, and custom cast numberplates.

I've done what you're thinking of with but with a Hornby Peckett and a DJM Hunslet/Austerity (for which the same worksplate service is available) and name plates that in my world are the names of female family members of the industrial concern's directors.

 

Edited to add: In my case I supplied the locos with number plates, but left the worksplates as they came, because I couldn't come up with a convincing works number/year combination for my imaginary industry. Others with access to more source material might be able to come up with works numbers that were unused for some reason (cancellations?) or in the case of the Austerities, were destroyed/lost at sea during the war, or simply never returned to the UK after military use overseas.

Edited September 12, 2017 by Andy W

[Bernard Lamb]

Interesting possibilities.

My first thoughts were East Anglia to fit in with my current layout. Felsted sugar beet factory had one.

Then I looked further north to the shale fields north west of Edinburgh.

They had many examples. Then I noticed the use of tenders, so typical of Scottish practice. Cobbled together with whatever was available. A bit like the LNER Y9s.

Then I looked at variants. What an idea for a competition. Create the greatest deviation from an as supplied model.

The Shotts Iron Company built the Bairds & Scottish Steel Company N0 8 from spare parts, some of which show a distinct family likeness. 

That might be a tempting challenge.

I shall start with Katie. Duly ordered.

Bernard

[bertiedog]

Decidedly a good announcement and also a much shorter lead time to the retail release of the new Barclay 040, and the new P Class. In the not too distant future perhaps then a small 060 industrial type?

 

It would also perhaps be nice to have available an undecorated version as well, with no plates or name plate fitted.

It looks from the underside shot Dave provided, that P4 conversion would be easy, as there is a spacer making up the centre line of the cylinder to the connecting rods centre line. With the minimum sideplay needed, the rods could be spaced near prototype distance apart, and although tight, it should just fit behind the crosshead ( but might need changing to metal ).

 

Order in and awaiting the delivery news.

Stephen

[Caledonian]

The oval windows on a Barclay are an 'after market sales accessory', as sold by Barclays themselves. As sold, Barclays sold the locomotive with an open back, with an sales option to include the cab back sheet. I'd suggest that 'Tiny' has gained a backsheet, and it's made it to the front sheet.

 

Victory (AB2201/45) has a factory-fitted backsheet, as does 'Tom Parry' (AB2015/35). The vertical, oval, backlights are quite distinctive to Barclays, and I'm pleased to note that Hattons appear to have caught this very well.  

 

Ian.

 

I was just offering Tiny as an easily accessible example. My ambition is to run at least one of the Aberdeen Gas Works Barclays - which had oval windows both back and front, just like Tiny.

[maq1988]

I've not seen anything to say that these will have separately applied number (or name) plates as sold. Have I missed something?

I assumed they would be printed on, in which case Narrow Planet (no connection) already produce Barclay works plates.

 

 

Nothing missed, just hoping to confirm the works plates would be either printed on or be easily removable separate parts. Just don't want two 705's in BR black.

 

Either way another great addition to small industrials, props to Hattons for giving it a shot. Will be my first OO purchase in about a decade.

[TheSignalEngineer]

Who needs a cab backsheet?

http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/misc/misc_indust1478.htm

[Captain Kernow]

At the risk of sounding ungrateful I still have to ask, will the final version have daylight under the boiler as Hornby managed to do with the Peckett? I understand that what has been shown is an EP and therefore not the final version.

 

I don't to sound ungrateful either, but this particular point hasn't, as yet (to my knowledge), been picked up by Dave of Hattons.

 

The 'slab side' effect on the engineering prototype is, for me, rather unfortunate, as it does seem very obvious when looking at the loco, almost a harking back to the 'bad old days' of Triang Hornby or other early models, where daylight under the boiler was (presumably) not cost effective or too difficult from a moulding point of view.

 

The Hornby Peckett does indeed have a properly curved boiler, yet ironically there is so much pipework in the way, that you hardly see it. Yet you know it's there.

 

If the final versions or the Barclay have a correctly curving boiler right all the way round, then I'll happily eat my hat (as long as it's made of milk chocolate and isn't too large), but the 'slab side' does put me off this otherwise excellent model slightly.

 

Oh dear, it's scarcely a day since this excellent news, and already I'm sounding like a miserable old git.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, hang on, I am.

[Legend]

No , it's a sensible question. Sometimes we all get carried away and need a reasonableness check. Maybe Dave can answer the point.

Edited September 12, 2017 by Legend

[Porcy Mane]

Who needs a cab backsheet?

http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/misc/misc_indust1478.htm

 

Looking at the improvisation seems like the crew were desperate for one.   I'm pretty pleased that my planned MOS 2L didn't have a back sheet in 1966. Looks like the only thing I need for that conversion is some paint, different buffers and a saw.

 

Nice tippler btw.

 

I may also be a bit premature in congratulating Hattons on fitting, what looks like a working three link.

 

P

[Dunsignalling]

It doesn't have the right combination of features - the chimney is different, the safety valve casing is (obviously?) different, the buffer housings are different, and Dave Mylett has already stated there were differences in respects of the cab.  The Hattons version in GWR/BR liveries is basically a model of a 'redecorated' preserved engine which it looks to represent fairly accurately but would require some surgery to make it accurately represent 701/1140.    

 

An odd thing is that both Hornby with the Peckett and now Hattons with the Barclay have modelled a class of industrial engine which operated on the Swansea Harbour Trust's railway but in both cases - for perfectly good manufacturing reasons - neither can offer an accurate model of the Swansea engines (in fact it's even more difficult with the Pecketts as nobody yet seems to have uncovered photos or drawings which show all the details, but particularly the cabs and backsheets, of engines withdrawn c.90 years ago).

Thanks Mike, I had a feeling it wouldn't be as easy as sticking a set of plates on it.

 

My next question is: your second paragraph indicate that none of the others announced have the right Swindonising bits, but do any of the others come close?  

 

Swapping boiler fittings and repainting into BR unlined black are things I can manage.

 

More thanks in anticipation

 

John

 

EDIT: I've just managed to find the outline pics on Hatton's website and the answer is clear - a big fat no.........

Edited September 12, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[tomparryharry]

Hi Folks,

 

I haven't seen the EP photos either, other than what we've seen here. What I might respectfully add, is that you won't normally see daylight through the real thing. The 14" Barclay is a much bigger beast. As such, this alters the main springing arrangement on the main frames. On the smaller 12" locos, the rear springs are separate, across and above the rear drivers. On the larger 14" locomotives, there is a balance bar, which passes under the boiler barrel, and comes around, and atop the main rear axleboxes. With this, and the main saddle balance pipe, there's not too much to see. Also, in between the frames, the motion plate bisects the place between, where the valve gear passes through to the lifting links and the eccentrics. Some of the larger Barclay locomotives have an recess arc, to allow the boiler barrel to clear the motion. The 16" locomotive simply exacerbates this problem. On nearly all of the Barclay saddle tanks, the boiler cladding goes in first, underneath the barrel, Any fitter will use any, or all the space they can take to make a neat job, with the saddle tank going on top of that. From what I've seen, the 0-6-0 is a better bet, as the boiler gets lifted up a bit, with a slightly different smokebox saddle and firebox support bracket either side.

 

If you're expecting an 9F daylight experience-oh dear!

 

Ian.

[Caledonian]

Looking at the improvisation seems like the crew were desperate for one.   I'm pretty pleased that my planned MOS 2L didn't have a back sheet in 1966. Looks like the only thing I need for that conversion is some paint, different buffers and a saw.

 

Nice tippler btw.

 

I may also be a bit premature in congratulating Hattons on fitting, what looks like a working three link.

 

P

 

A hacksaw may not be necessary, the side views on the first page of this thread suggest that at least two of the models offered are open-backed

[Andy Y]

Whoo-hoo! MOS No. 2.L. (AB 2119)  here I come.   Would that be this vid from earlier in the thread?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_--QC4BL0M P

Here is 'part 2' where I talk to Dave about the EP components and tooling for the model and the checking process that Hatton's go through on the Digi version of the mag.

[Ruston]

I don't to sound ungrateful either, but this particular point hasn't, as yet (to my knowledge), been picked up by Dave of Hattons.

 

The 'slab side' effect on the engineering prototype is, for me, rather unfortunate, as it does seem very obvious when looking at the loco, almost a harking back to the 'bad old days' of Triang Hornby or other early models, where daylight under the boiler was (presumably) not cost effective or too difficult from a moulding point of view.

 

The Hornby Peckett does indeed have a properly curved boiler, yet ironically there is so much pipework in the way, that you hardly see it. Yet you know it's there.

 

If the final versions or the Barclay have a correctly curving boiler right all the way round, then I'll happily eat my hat (as long as it's made of milk chocolate and isn't too large), but the 'slab side' does put me off this otherwise excellent model slightly.

 

Oh dear, it's scarcely a day since this excellent news, and already I'm sounding like a miserable old git.

Quite right, Cap'n. I too think this lets the model down and am hoping that the finished item doesn't have this boxy,slab-sided thing under the boiler but it won't matter as most people won't notice it because of all the froth surrounding it.

[Flying Pig]

If you're expecting an 9F daylight experience-oh dear!Ian.

Not daylight, but the deep shadow evident in most photos. A vertical surface such as a solid chassis block reflects more light than the curved underside of the boiler cladding would and the current trend towards modelling boilers fully round* is a step forward for that reason, even if the boiler is low pitched or surrounded by clutter.

 

*building on the example of the Mainline J72 from forty years ago.

[Caledonian]

Had a look on the Hatton's site; the Fina one looks to be the closest livery match to Aberdeen Gas Works - that little shield won't last long against a cotton bud and Brasso - but what about the cab windows. Anybody know?

[Porcy Mane]

Here is 'part 2' where I talk to Dave about the EP components and tooling for the model and the checking process that Hatton's go through on the Digi version of the mag.

 

 

Ermmmmmm?   

[adb968008]

Nothing missed, just hoping to confirm the works plates would be either printed on or be easily removable separate parts. Just don't want two 705's in BR black.

 

Either way another great addition to small industrials, props to Hattons for giving it a shot. Will be my first OO purchase in about a decade.

I'm thinking of a 705, remove the BR lion, and the cover the number with a works plate (remove the excess)...leave it at that. Edited September 12, 2017 by adb968008

[Bon Accord]

Had a look on the Hatton's site; the Fina one looks to be the closest livery match to Aberdeen Gas Works - that little shield won't last long against a cotton bud and Brasso - but what about the cab windows. Anybody know?

 

Stuart,

Isn't it the wrong type of Barclay for the gasworks locos? I think they were the size below (12" cylinders?), atr least for Bon Accord and Mr Therm.

[60B]

The 12" cylinder Barclays as used in Speyside were noticeably smaller all round than the much chunkier 14" and 16" locos. The suggestion of standard gauge Barclays with 9" cylinders is, politely, incorrect. They did produce narrow gauge side tank locos, eg 'Fair Maid of Foyers'.

 

Dava

Havent put either side to side but the smaller tank is the giveaway. Is there anything else wildly different between the 12"s and the 14"?

[Andy Y]

Ermmmmmm?   

It should have read "there is a part two..." - fat fingers on a phone.

[Caledonian]

Stuart,

Isn't it the wrong type of Barclay for the gasworks locos? I think they were the size below (12" cylinders?), atr least for Bon Accord and Mr Therm.

 

This is the closest I'm ever going to get RTR, so its a question of which of those on offer is going to look most convincing rather than fussing with calipers and throwing my teddy in the corner. Even if the windows are wrong the Fina one is still going to look closer than an L&Y Pug - or a Peckett for that matter

[tomparryharry]

Havent put either side to side but the smaller tank is the giveaway. Is there anything else wildly different between the 12"s and the 14"?

Not to me, but I'd guess an HO version. Probably still a 4mm cab & buffers.

 

Ian.