William's Workbench - LBSCR, LC&DR & SER in 4mm, and Gauge 1

[burgundy]

9 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

Also, there's no way in hell I'm hand-lettering "Stephenson Clarke & Co Ltd. London" on the next one, despite my reservations I think it'll have to be a transfer!

As others have pointed out, these kits go back to Woodham Wagon Works but have moved around a bit since then. I can only assume that some of the small bits have been swapped around.

Before you despair with the lettering for SC (and the Parry hand lettering looks very impressive), you might want to look at the POWSides range. The lettering for these two wagons was specifically commissioned from that company, although I have not looked recently to check availability. 

Best wishes 

Eric  

[Lacathedrale]

@Nick Holliday the floor in my kit was etched and marked specifically Chatham Kits - so presumbly a generic one? Honestly as it's come together I've enjoyed the finished wagon and painting it very much, but the initial construction was very painful. Also, this was my first proper whitemetal wagon kit so that probably paid more of a role than the specifics of the kit.  @burgundy is the POWSides transfer just the lettering, or also the grey of the wagon side? I'm not sure about getting a tonal match from a transfer - but not a bad option at all!

 

EDIT: Just seen their website suggests all transfer production is on hold. Also £4 postage for a £7 transfer. Maybe I _WILL_ try hand lettering it after all? "LONDON" was surprisingly straight forward...

 

Right now it's had the first coat of oil washes and I'll need to let it sort itself out for a couple of days before wiping it down.

 

Rather than finish the LNWR horsebox or start on the high level chassis, I thought I would do another of the wagon kits - and I've just started the Prickly Pear SER Ballast Wagon - the moulding is super crisp, there is positive registration for the sides and ends, and comes with Evergreen V-groove sheet for the floor. It also comes with a bewildering array of coupling options - safety chains, double hooks, etc. How the rest of it goes together, time will tell...

Edited May 17, 2022 by Lacathedrale

[Lacathedrale]

I got an oil wash on the Parry wagon and after buffing it out I'm quite pleased with it:

 

[Penlan]

On 16/05/2022 at 23:28, Lacathedrale said:

....... I've just started the Prickly Pear SER Ballast Wagon - the moulding is super crisp, there is positive registration for the sides and ends, and comes with Evergreen V-groove sheet for the floor. It also comes with a bewildering array of coupling options - safety chains, double hooks, etc. How the rest of it goes together, time will tell...

I left off the side chains etc., though again used shackle 5 link couplings on my two of these kits.
Agreed this is well cast and goes together nicely.

[Lacathedrale]

I cannot fully express how cross I am with Fox Transfers only putting one set of "SER" lettering transfers on their wagon sheets. There are tare and 'to carry' markings, large and small numbers, etc. to mark up half a dozen wagons - but they only give you of SER so you have to pay £5 per. I'm going to hand letter it, I don't care if it looks bad.

 

 

Still very much WIP but slowly getting there.

[Mikkel]

I see what you mean, annoying.

 

That graphic look you're acheiving on the wagons looks really good in photos.  I can see it becoming a distinctive style on the layout. 

[Gareth Collier]

2 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

I cannot fully express how cross I am with Fox Transfers only putting one set of "SER" lettering transfers on their wagon sheets. There are tare and 'to carry' markings, large and small numbers, etc. to mark up half a dozen wagons - but they only give you of SER so you have to pay £5 per. I'm going to hand letter it, I don't care if it looks bad.

 

It is baffling how they came to that decision unless it was to make you buy a complete sheet for every wagon but that's not their style. As you say you have enough transfers for numerous wagons but not the most important ones!

[Lacathedrale]

1 minute ago, Gareth Collier said:

It is baffling how they came to that decision unless it was to make you buy a complete sheet for every wagon but that's not their style. As you say you have enough transfers for numerous wagons but not the most important ones!

 

I think it may well be a commercial decision, the difference between their Ballast Wagon and non-Ballast Wagon sheets is literally a single sans-serif "B" and the addition of one tare/to-carry mark.

 

Gareth, as connoisseur of all things SECR in N gauge, I was wondering if you had any LCDR monogram transfers I might be able to purchase from you?

[Gareth Collier]

5 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

Gareth, as connoisseur of all things SECR in N gauge, I was wondering if you had any LCDR monogram transfers I might be able to purchase from you?

Not really I'm afraid. For the tender monogram I screen grabbed it from a photo I found on the web, reduced it down and printed it out on clear transfer paper. When the loco enters the paint shop I add a square of white transfer paper slightly smaller than the monogram one before applying it. I did try printing straight on to white transfer paper but it didn't work as effectively. I have done exactly the same for coach monograms.

 

The image I have isn't as crisp as I'd like but I couldn't source a better one even being in the SECR Society,

The main reason printing more is an issue is my printer died and finances meant it's replacement struggles to print things this small as clearly :(

 

[Lacathedrale]

More tidying up yet, but the first pass is looking OK and it as at least 'me' rather than Fox :)

 

[Gareth Collier]

23 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

More tidying up yet, but the first pass is looking OK and it as at least 'me' rather than Fox :)

Great job but there is a possible Fox alternative: https://www.fox-transfers.co.uk/alphabet-in-white-33401

Not quite the correct font but the 2mm lettering is approx the correct size for the 7 inch SER and you can do 3 wagons for £6.65.

I've used the 1mm ones for my 'N' gauge stock as Fox didn't want to reduce their 4 & 7mm transfers to 2mm even though they did reduce the LCDR ones.

[Lacathedrale]

2 hours ago, Mikkel said:

I see what you mean, annoying.

 

That graphic look you're acheiving on the wagons looks really good in photos.  I can see it becoming a distinctive style on the layout. 

 

That would make me very happy :)

[Gareth Collier]

Here's a couple of my 'N' ballast wagons using the Fox alphabet sheet.

[Lacathedrale]

Certainly neater than my efforts!

 

Here are the wagons I've built to-date (LNWR Horsebox excused as I'm still girding my loins to line it out and letter it):

 

 

I've had the little display plank they're on knocking around forever - it was originally 00/S/0-MF, so I removed the 00 and S laying a new EM-SF gauge rail and some 0.8mm check rails. Nothing is tweaked so far out of the (Alan Gibson) packet and yet runs through very smoothly. I should probably chop out one of the sections and add a dummy vee, but for now it works.

 

EM-SF Test/Display Plank

 

Maybe I should regauge the outside rail from 0MF (31.5mm) to 28.06 for Broad Gauge EM-SF? 🙈

[t-b-g]

Those wagons look lovely William.

 

Gareth is right. They have a certain "character" to them which is very appealing.

 

 

[Lacathedrale]

That means alot, thank you.

 

It's been a bit of a hot and stuffy evening so not really fancying getting even hotter with the soldering iron, so I whipped up a CAD of the Second Sondes I'm hoping to build. Originally built in 1865 as a 4-4-0T, then rebuilt in 1878 as a 2-4-0T and again in 1906, they survived on suburban services until 1909.

 

 

The pink frames are external, the red are internal.

 

I really am leaning towards mounting the horn blocks to the outside frames and leaving the inside frames cosmetic unless someone can give me a compelling argument!

 

The wheels I have available to me are 1.5mm too small, or 0.8mm too large - so I guess i'm going with the smaller ones, and an added benefit is that I guess I will not need to increase the depth of the horn slots when using beam suspension. Do I understand correctly that the bottom of the beam should rest on the top of both axles at their normal resting position (i.e. a little bit of travel up and a little bit of travel down?)

 

Whatever feedback, it's going in the bank- R-class next!

[Regularity]

You will find life easier with either inside or outside hornblocks, but not with both!

It will look better with outside hornblocks, and there is enough space between the inside face of the outside frames and the wheels to have compensation beams there. You could even make the inside frames entirely cosmetic, and part of the body, with slots dropping down over the axles.

[Lacathedrale]

Thank you. Do you have any recommended hornblocks/horn guides for beam suspension? And the position of the beam in the normal position?

[Regularity]

I use whatever I can lay my hands on, but the London Road Models brass bearings used to be a favourite. As you have a lathe, you could make your own.

As for the beam, something like this:

 

[burgundy]

3 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

Thank you. Do you have any recommended hornblocks/horn guides for beam suspension? And the position of the beam in the normal position?

Perhaps heresy, but I would not bother with hornblocks on the inside frames if that is where the compensation is being done. In the sketch above, instead of a beam bearing on top of a hornblock, drill the beam to take plain brass bearings. While you are at it, solder another couple of thicknesses of brass to the beams so that you drill through the coupling rods and the beams at the same time, to guarantee that they match. The pivot point in the centre of the beam gives you two legs of the three legged stool and a centre pivot on the leading axle gives you the third. 

This works perfectly well for most three axle locos - but then, who needs more than three axles?

Best wishes 

Eric  

[Lacathedrale]

Interesting! what kind of fit between the bearings and the axle? Presumably some slop otherwise the beams wouldn't work?

 

In other news, rather than start the R-class chassis I'm wrapping up the two half-built wagons I've had knocking around - the LNWR Horsebox and the Peco/Ratio Iron Mink. Honestly I was not hopeful for the end result and frankly they are quite a dissapointment you might see them in the background of some other shots but I won't be featuring them here for now!

[burgundy]

13 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

Interesting! what kind of fit between the bearings and the axle? Presumably some slop otherwise the beams wouldn't work?

 

Since the axle is running in a bearing in the compensating beam, you do not need another bearing in the frames. You simply have an oblong slot to allow for vertical movement. It sounds crude but it is simple and, because the axles remain exactly the same distance apart in the beams, you do not need slop in the coupling rods. 

Best wishes 

Eric 

[Lacathedrale]

Sorry, I understand what you mean about the use of the tubular bearing on the beams, but depending on the thickness of the bearings, there must be some slop between the inside face of the bearing and the outside face of the axle, otherwise the axle couldn't roll and would be held parallel to the axis of the bearing?

Edited June 13, 2022 by Lacathedrale

[burgundy]

7 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

Sorry, I understand what you mean about the use of the tubular bearing on the beams, but depending on the thickness of the bearings, there must be some slop between the inside face of the bearing and the outside face of the axle, otherwise the axle couldn't roll and would be held parallel to the axis of the bearing?

Alan Gibson, and other sources, supply 1/8th" bearings to match their standard driving wheel axles. You also need a 1/8th" parallel reamer(?), which will ensure that any burrs are cleaned off and that the axle turns smoothly and freely. That is the only clearance between bearing and axle. If you are concerned that there will be a tendency to twist, when the wheel on one side drops and the other does not, it is not a problem that I have noticed. It is possible that this may be taken up by the fit of the pivot point between the beam and the crossbar between the frames, which is probably slightly sloppier. Hopefully, you only need to deal with very small amounts of movement caused by the odd gap or change of gradient.

[Shortly after I retired, I paid a visit to Eileen's Emporium, to kit myself out with the additional tools that I needed to tackle a first etched kit. Derek suggested the reamer - and also one for 2mm carrying axles. They have been absolutely invaluable.] 

I hope that this helps.

Best wishes 

Eric 

[Lacathedrale]

Beams for Second Sondes

Thank you that makes alot of sense and I'll consider that my method, then!

 

I'm sorry if I'm being a thicko but I'm still not sure how cosmetic axleboxes will work on the outside frames - with this method I'll have a nice square slot in the outside frames with a round axle going through the middle of the void? If I have something tight fitting/etc.

 

Rescuing a GWR Iron Mink

The GWR Iron Mink is a Peco/Ratio kit of vintage.that had been sitting neglected in my box of bits without wheels, brake gear, and not only were the transfers silvered and oversized, they were not period correct for a Victorian layout either. Given the known dimensional issues of the kit, rather than spend a bunch of money to buy transfers and parts I thought I'd mend and make do.

 

Early Iron Minks had grease axleboxes so I cut away the front of the oil axlebox mouldings to give a flat fronted approximation. I used some NS rod between the brake hangers, but at some point the brake push-rods and shoes will need to be located and fitted, too!

 

I gave it a few light coats of Vallejo Red Leather (my base 'red oxide' colour) mixed with Red Ink to make it richer. With SER Red Oxide (terracotta), P.O. Red Oxide  and GWR Red (darker) I've got lots of reds and not much grey.

 

This was my first experiment lettering with the Easi-Liner and it didn't go well - I will need to experiment further but I get a much finer line and control with a brush. If the LNWR Horsebox ever shows up, you can see how badly that went 😬. I may re-do this in future with transfers, but for now it's sufficient.

 

I tried to use acrylic ink washes instead of oil washes and I now remember why I defer to the latter - there's a palpable lack of depth and variance in specularity that oils provide, so I may go back over this with a thinned oil wash in future. To add some of that depth back in, I drybrushed with the base tone mixed with Vallejo Pale Sand to catch the edges and corners.

 

It still need 3-link couplings installed (and I need to figure out if I'm going to standardise on those for my layout or some kind of auto-coupling system) but is basically complete and is now at least ready for use on a layout instead of languishing sans wheels and with a botched transfer job:

 

 

Thank you for reading.

 

Edited June 14, 2022 by Lacathedrale