Revision to eBay seller fees

[njee20]

1 hour ago, forest2807 said:

 

Yes, but how much is Ebay making by sitting on your money for those extra few days?!

Honestly… I don’t care. It makes no odds to me that it takes a couple of days. It is a bit daft, but so are all payment processing delays. I can cope without 2 whole days of 0.01% interest. 

[Butler Henderson]

Not keen at all giving ebay my bank account details so thinking of opening a separate one; seem to be plenty of US ones with nil deposit required but UK?

[Corbs]

If you are looking for an easy bank account to use, I use Starling Bank for all Railway Mania-related payments. Only took 24 hours to set up and didn't involve leaving the house, can do it all on my phone and use my thumb to unlock it. More intelligent payment tracking system than my personal account as well so good for doing expenses.

The virtual card is on my ApplePay so I can use it for contactless at the post office etc. Very pleased so far.

[njee20]

51 minutes ago, Butler Henderson said:

Not keen at all giving ebay my bank account details so thinking of opening a separate one; seem to be plenty of US ones with nil deposit required but UK?

Any of the challenger banks are probably a good place to start: Monzo, Revolut and Starling are the obvious ones. Also get great exchange rates on foreign purchases. 

[57xx]

On 14/04/2021 at 17:24, Bluemonkey presents.... said:

 

I have a First Direct account for this exact purpose. Now having to disclose account details to ebay I was advised by the helpful First Direct staff member to use the details for the automatically linked savings account. This account can only be paid into and not directly pay out of. Those funds have to be internally (by yourself anytime instantly) transferred to the general account in order to access the funds making them safer. 

 

Nice tip Matt, I have an unused linked savings account with them (I put any spare money into an unlinked savings account with has a fractionally better interest rate, at least it did a few years ago), off to check my ebay account now as I haven't used it for a while but have more bits I need to sell.

[D602bulldog]

On 21/02/2021 at 22:38, njee20 said:

eBay sold PayPal about 5 years ago though…

 

I’ve been using the new ‘direct to bank account’ payment for a month or so. It works well. I only list when there are £1 fee offers, and whilst it takes a couple of days to get the funds they are just transferred net of £1. No other fees. In the case of people buying multiple lots it’s even discounted, I paid £2.60 fees on three items. 
 

I never used my PayPal balance for buying stuff, and whilst it’s a bit of a pain that it takes a few days to get the money I’m better off, so I’m happy enough. 
 

No idea on the dispute resolution, but PayPal are happy enough to dip into your account!

Ive just read if there is a dispute and your the seller if ebay issues a refund to the buyer the seller gets charged £16 thats stupid has ebay always sides with the buyer also 12% final value fee and a 30p charge  

[SGP]

I won't be selling any more on eBay until the greedy ~@*+%<? go back to Paypal. 

In the meantime, I will either try BidBay (free to list and only 5% selling fee .... plus a Paypal fee).

Listings stay live until sold so if no sale, no costs. 

Not much footfall on there though but hopefully they will profit from eBay's mistake.

To be honest, stuff I have surplus can go in the bin anyway for all I'm bothered or car boot it for peanuts. 

I'm not hard up and I'd sooner chuck stuff down the tip than let eBay grub a share.

[cessna152towser]

My last listing ends tomorrow because my deadline for agreeing to managed payments is 30th April.   My wife and I have a joint account and we each have our own separate Paypal accounts, so I won't be opening yet another account to satisfy the whims of eBay.  eBay proudly boast that my sales total over the past 90 days total just over £900.  That's £10 per day or £70 per week which I will no longer have available to re-spend on eBay.   I've been buying a lot of "spares or repairs" model trains and plenty of spare parts from eBay sellers over the past few years, to fix up stuff which I could sell on.  With neither my usual shows nor eBay outlets to re-sell stuff there is no longer any point in buying for repair either and there must be many more like me so sellers' prices are going to be depressed.  I recently sold a camera.  The winning bid was tied and the earlier bidder won but didn't pay.  Then I gave a second chance offer to the other bidder which was not taken up.  Then I gave a second chance offer to a third bidder who had bid a slightly lower amount, which again was not accepted.  Then I relisted and the camera sold for less than the previous bids.  eBay is no longer worth the hassle.

 

[John M Upton]

People can and probably will still pay by PayPal as that is what the vast majority of Ebayers use, the one thing that confuses me though is if someone does pay by PayPal, is that still a direct payment to my PP account or does it still go through Ebay's silly new money laundering machine?

[Alcanman]

1 minute ago, John M Upton said:

People can and probably will still pay by PayPal as that is what the vast majority of Ebayers use, the one thing that confuses me though is if someone does pay by PayPal, is that still a direct payment to my PP account or does it still go through Ebay's silly new money laundering machine?

The buyer's PayPal payment will still go directly to e-bay who will then process and send the money through to your bank account.

 

I don't sell a lot of stuff and now simply wait for Ebay to offer £1.00 selling fees. I've found the new payment system works enough and I'm not really bothered about waiting 2 or 3 days for money to go into my bank account.

[njee20]

29 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

People can and probably will still pay by PayPal as that is what the vast majority of Ebayers use, the one thing that confuses me though is if someone does pay by PayPal, is that still a direct payment to my PP account or does it still go through Ebay's silly new money laundering machine?

eBay are now using Adyen for processing payments. No need for stupid "money laundering" language. They're still using a third party payments provider, it's just one which is seamlessly integrated, rather than having a separate interface like PayPal. Here is Adyen's website if you want to educate yourself. They're a huge multinational company.

If someone pays via PayPal the money still goes to your bank account. Buyers now have more protection as a seller has to have a UK bank account. This is better than PayPal.

 

The misplaced histrionics about this is madness. As a seller you pay less. As a buyer you have better protection and can still use PayPal. Ebay are still outsourcing payments, just not to PayPal.

The only legitimate grievance I can think of is for those who left the money in their PayPal account for funding onward purchases. To those people... just set up another bank account.

[njee20]

1 hour ago, SGP said:

I won't be selling any more on eBay until the greedy ~@*+%<? go back to Paypal. Why would that make them less greedy? Becuase it'll cost you more money and offer less protection

In the meantime, I will either try BidBay (free to list and only 5% selling fee .... plus a Paypal fee). So similar to eBay then, and actually given the frequency of £1 fee offers that's more expensive than eBay

Listings stay live until sold so if no sale, no costs. So just like eBay?

Not much footfall on there though but hopefully they will profit from eBay's mistake. The mistake which benefits their customers...?

To be honest, stuff I have surplus can go in the bin anyway for all I'm bothered or car boot it for peanuts. Cutting your nose off to spite your face, some might say 

I'm not hard up and I'd sooner chuck stuff down the tip than let eBay grub a share. Well good for you! Banks make more money than eBay - why not request your salary in cash, and burn it. Really stick it to the man.

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by njee20

[adb968008]

I have noticed a big drop off in ebay listings the last few weeks.

 

I sold off a lot of stuff between Nov -Mar, then, I stopped getting the £1 offers, suddenly they asked me to change to a business account which I didnt really want to do.
So after that Ive dropped off the radar and not bothered listing anything else, as i’d mostly sold what I wanted to get rid of anyway by that point.

 

Ive not been asked about this new payments thing either.

So i’m somewhat out of touch with the changes.

 

certainly my wifes commented at the lack of packages arriving and my B&Q gardening spend has gone up.

 

Oddly ebay has thrice recently sent me money off vouchers to spend, which ive never had before, but ive actually not found anything worth to buy... maybe they noticed I closed my wallet ?
 
it does feel that not having an easy window to sell also means its not an easy window to buy either.
 

The reason for my mega clear out was because I do think we are in a bubble that will blow later this year, so I think  sitting it out anyway isn't such a bad thing.

 

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by adb968008

[SGP]

Quote

I won't be selling any more on eBay until the greedy ~@*+%<? go back to Paypal. Why would that make them less greedy? Becuase it'll cost you more money and offer less protection

In the meantime, I will either try BidBay (free to list and only 5% selling fee .... plus a Paypal fee). So similar to eBay then, and actually given the frequency of £1 fee offers that's more expensive than eBay

Listings stay live until sold so if no sale, no costs. So just like eBay?

Not much footfall on there though but hopefully they will profit from eBay's mistake. The mistake which benefits their customers...?

To be honest, stuff I have surplus can go in the bin anyway for all I'm bothered or car boot it for peanuts. Cutting your nose off to spite your face, some might say 

I'm not hard up and I'd sooner chuck stuff down the tip than let eBay grub a share. Well good for you! Banks make more money than eBay - why not request your salary in cash, and burn it. Really stick it to the man.

Your red remarks make no sense.

[njee20]

Why? Which don’t make sense?

[John M Upton]

The biggest two issues seem to be:

 

1 - Ebay now have direct access to your bank account and will deduct refunds when a buyer complains without notice plus a reported fee on top.

 

2 - The two to four day 'processing period' during which your money is in limbo.  PayPal was direct payment with security guarantees and you could spend it straight away, now a seller is under pressure to post an item immediately on sale but may not see the cash for the sale for days, longer if a bank holiday weekend for example and there is still the risk the payment may bounce.

[njee20]

PayPal gave you the illusion of instant payment, by giving a bridging loan. You can be assured that if the payment failed they’d have the money back sharpish though. The risk of bouncing is not remotely different. You do have access to the money sooner, I appreciate. however SGP has told us he’s wealthy enough to throw away anything he would have sold on eBay, so clearly a non-issue for many!
 

I don’t get the issue with the refunds thing. If eBay found against you in a dispute and mandated a refund you had to ensure you’d divorced any external payment types from PayPal anyway, and it doesn’t admonish the responsibility you’ve signed up to.  

Edited April 28, 2021 by njee20

[adb968008]

4 hours ago, njee20 said:

PayPal gave you the illusion of instant payment, by giving a bridging loan. You can be assured that if the payment failed they’d have the money back sharpish though. The risk of bouncing is not remotely different. You do have access to the money sooner, I appreciate. however SGP has told us he’s wealthy enough to throw away anything he would have sold on eBay, so clearly a non-issue for many!
 

I don’t get the issue with the refunds thing. If eBay found against you in a dispute and mandated a refund you had to ensure you’d divorced any external payment types from PayPal anyway, and it doesn’t admonish the responsibility you’ve signed up to.  

The idea that ebay can help itself to your bank account is the fodder of newspapers later this year, you just know watchdog etc is waiting for this.

 

imagine, seller, poor, sells items.
Sudden event happens, illness, accident etc preventing them posting.

Ebay empties their bank account, multiple £16 fines, mass overdrafts on their bank accounts, interest impact, bank charges not to mention impact on existing scheduled payments.. mortgage etc.

 

one accident could bankrupt the person and lose their home, for a few tatty items sold for a few quid on ebay.

 

I dont think this will happen to model railway sellers, but there are thousands of breadline sellers on ebay, enough hardluck stories will bring legislation closer to ebay.

 

it does sound like an abuse of the direct debit process..

Quote

Simply, a Direct Debit is an instruction from you to your bank or building society. It authorises the organisation you want to pay to collect varying amounts from your account – but only if you’ve been given advance notice of the amounts and dates of collection.

Once you have agreed those, the money is deducted automatically. If the organisation you are paying wants to change an amount or date of collection, they have to tell you about it first.

 

Paypal for its part, freezes funds and instigates some kind of recovery mechanism.. I dont think ive ever heard of paypal just dipping into your bank account based on random computer algorithms and helping itself without warning.

 

The obvious first legal test would be agreeing your consent to that amount being deducted... if your in hospital unconcious, I dont see how they can prove that.

 

I wonder how long it is until a specialist auction site mimics ebay for modellers.. given the disquiet expressed, it cannot be far away... ebay used to have a good trade on whisky 5 years ago, then they messed about and a hugely successful spin off for Whisky occurred, whiskyexchange setup whisky.auction.  In Poland ebay has been beaten into a corner by Allegro.pl so it can happen... someone with warehousing & high secondhand selling power like Rails or Hattons could easily breakout with some software and do it themselves, and open it to a wider market.

Edited April 28, 2021 by adb968008

[njee20]

But why do you think PayPal was any different? PayPal were less regulated.
 

The payment dispute fee isn’t new. If a buyer initiates a chargeback with their payment provider and you fight it (and lose) you are eligible for the fee. If you don’t fight it and just refund there’s no fee. It was £14 under PayPal, set out in their fees. Here’s an old eBay thread discussing it. 
 

Obviously that won’t stop the tabloids dining out on some sob story about fees meaning little Timmy can’t afford Christmas, but let’s not let facts get in the way of a good story!

Edited April 28, 2021 by njee20

[andyman7]

I have now had the call to go to managed payments. It's a bit of a faff but actually more straightforward that the money from sales gets paid to my bank account. Every time there is a change in ebay processes some people throw their toys out of their pram and say that they will not bother. But frankly, for my surplus model railway items, given that I am perfectly capable of listing, packing and sending stuff and dealing with the very occasional buyer issue, there is still nothing comparable that comes close to letting me realise the maximum value of my sale items. 

[Crosland]

11 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I dont think ive ever heard of paypal just dipping into your bank account based on random computer algorithms and helping itself without warning.

 

Can you quote the part of the eBay Ts&Cs that say they will do that?

 

The biggest problem is that people just don't like change.

 

[adb968008]

51 minutes ago, Crosland said:

 

Can you quote the part of the eBay Ts&Cs that say they will do that?

 

The biggest problem is that people just don't like change.

 

Quote

How refunds work

When you offer your buyer a refund, the amount will be paid from the total of your Available, Processing, and On hold funds. If you don’t have enough funds to cover the cost of the refund, the amount will be paid from your payout checking account or on-file credit card. Please ensure your credit card information is up to date to avoid any charge failure.

For example, if you issue your buyer a £100 refund and only have £80 in Available, Processing, and On hold funds, your payout checking account or on-file credit card will be used to fund the remaining £20

i dont mind reading the T&Cs...unlike some.
 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/refunding-buyers-as-a-managed-payments-seller?id=5182

With paypal, they gave you a choice on the refund, you could chose to refund from the balance, chose charge it to your card, or you could add funds to your account. There was also a little latitude as to when you did it too.

 

Ebay’s priority order is clear in the text above, if your funds aren't in their bank account.... 1st take from your bank, 2nd your credit card as a fallback.

 

if you dont have sufficient funds in your bank account, and your bank allows you to go overdrawn and dump loads of fees onto you.. you no longer have control to prevent it happening, as ebays withdrawal of cash would be approved leaving you in the merde.

if your bank account refuses..it goes to your credit card. 

 

emphasis on who has control of your finances.. you.. vs they.

 

setting up a separate bank account isnt going to save you from unexpected fees, if 6 months down the line a chargeback hits you when your on the beach spending that cash, or your mortgage payment isnt met because ebay took a penny more than you needed the night before.

 

Happy with that change ?

 

***

its not that I am resisting change, its that I am looking at the risks.

***

 

Personally, i’m going to wait and see how this falls out,  I like to control my own finances.

Edited April 29, 2021 by adb968008

[Sir TophamHatt]

41 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

How refunds work

When you offer your buyer a refund...

What if you don't offer the refund?

 

To be fair, I've had an item bought that the buyer decided it wouldn't work with their (foreign) electrical system and asked for a refund.

I said no.  They opened a case through ebay, who promptly closed it in my favour when I showed screenshots of them clearly buying something that was located in the UK.

 

Interestingly, they opened a case on PayPal, who then sided in their favour.

A quick call and PayPal said they didn't know why it was decided in their favour so wait until the item arrived back and they'd just refund me anyway.

That's £20 up for me, but hassle of having to resell the item!

[adb968008]

15 minutes ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

What if you don't offer the refund?

 

To be fair, I've had an item bought that the buyer decided it wouldn't work with their (foreign) electrical system and asked for a refund.

I said no.  They opened a case through ebay, who promptly closed it in my favour when I showed screenshots of them clearly buying something that was located in the UK.

 

Interestingly, they opened a case on PayPal, who then sided in their favour.

A quick call and PayPal said they didn't know why it was decided in their favour so wait until the item arrived back and they'd just refund me anyway.

That's £20 up for me, but hassle of having to resell the item!

Its a risky game refusing a refund.

 

Most (almost always) of the time ebay sides with the buyer.

If you chose to resist, its highly likely the buyer will get to keep your item, and ebay will give them a refund, and a strike against you.

 

tbh its not worth it.

 

ive never had someone say they “didnt want it”, its always “xyz is wrong”.. as buyers know they are immediately on a winner.

 

Best thing is take it back, give the refund and then just ban them.

To be fair though, in model railways returns are really low.. like 1 in hundreds.. but outside of model railways ive found so many dodgy sellers and assume buyers are no different..

 

I barely buy or sell anything outside of model railways, I just dont trust it, too many bad experiences. Personally i’d be really happy if a specialst model auction web mimicking ebay was set up.. Ive tried buying on vectis, but I find its too old school, too high in fees and too buyer beware, i’d certainly never sell on it.

Edited April 29, 2021 by adb968008

[Sir TophamHatt]

On 29/04/2021 at 11:18, adb968008 said:

Its a risky game refusing a refund.

 

Most (almost always) of the time ebay sides with the buyer.

If you chose to resist, its highly likely the buyer will get to keep your item, and ebay will give them a refund, and a strike against you.

 

Or is that how it was?

 

As I say, ebay sided with me this time around so it's not a given that they will ALWAYS side with the buyer.

 

Plus, having a strike against you does what?

Sounds scary but people open, close and run three ebay accounts all the time.  Unless you're regularly doing something wrong, a "strike" probably isn't worth the time it spend reading about it.