SECR 10t Covered Goods Wagon & 2 Plank Ballast Wagon

[The Stationmaster]

36 minutes ago, mdvle said:

 

If the latest Hunslet video with Andy's choice of reading material is any guide I fear for your poor bank account, though I am sure the sacrifice would be worth it to make many people happy.

As long as there's no duplication and from one of his remarks above I read between the lines that it will be avoided and he'll be making me spend even more money than would have otherwise been the case. 

[watfordtmc]

5 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

PS if you are going to see the light and give some thought to any vehicles from the real railway have a word with me first because my dwindling bank account 

Whilst I note the jibe at the expense of the SEC, I would observe that when REL Maunsell set up his management team at Ashford, as well as Harold Holcroft, he also recruited GH Pearson and Lionel Lynes from Swindon.

 

Pearson, who became Maunsell’s assistant and Ashford Works Manager, had been the Carriage and Wagons Works manager at Swindon, whilst Lynes became Maunsell’s Chief Carriage and Wagon Draughtsman, having held a senior C&W post in the drawing office at Swindon.

 

The ensuing wagons are described as having “details … of Great Western practice…” so perhaps they should be seen, as it were, as the spawn of Satan, err Swindon and therefore worthy of purchase by GW types…

 

Responsibility for any resulting damages to bank balances is disclaimed!

 

Reference

An Illustrated History of Southern Wagons Volume Three: SECR, Bixley G, Blackburn A, Chorley R, King M, Oxford Publishing Co (Shepperton) 2000.

 

Regards

TMc

28/01/2022

 

[Wickham Green too]

3 hours ago, watfordtmc said:

.... The ensuing wagons are described as having “details … of Great Western practice…” ....

Yep - just look at those heavyweight buffers .............. I'm not sure they're exactly the same as Swindon ones but that's what I'll be ordering from Lanarkshire ( for springing ).

[Dunsignalling]

54 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

Yep - just look at those heavyweight buffers .............. I'm not sure they're exactly the same as Swindon ones but that's what I'll be ordering from Lanarkshire ( for springing ).

The GWR self-contained buffers are close enough, IMHO, and Mr. Lynes, who designed these vans, had previously worked at Swindon....

 

The ABS cast equivalents (non-sprung) are what I used on my Cambrian SECR kits.

 

John

Edited January 29, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Wickham Green too]

13 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

.... The ABS cast equivalents (non-sprung) are what I used on my Cambrian SECR kits. ....

I've drilled out and sprung a good few ABS buffers over the years ....... these ones are, shall we say, not for the faint hearted !

[gwrrob]

Asking for a friend who wants to know whether mixed companies wagons were seen on ballast trains. In particular, could he run these 2 plank SR with his GWR types in the same train.

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, gwrrob said:

Asking for a friend who wants to know whether mixed companies wagons were seen on ballast trains. In particular, could he run these 2 plank SR with his GWR types in the same train.

Possibly in later BR days, but not pre-1948, I'd think.

 

I'm not sure there would have been too much intermixing even between ex-SECR/ex-LBSCR/ex-LSWR departmental wagons on the SR/Southern Region, as such vehicles generally seem to have been sourced on a fairly localised (divisional?) basis.

 

My pre-ordered black 2-plank and van are earmarked to partner my Oxford Rail 'Stewart's Lane' crane and a Hatton's 6-wheeler in the role of a riding van when those arrive.

 

John

Edited January 30, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Wickham Green too]

13 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

... I'm not sure there would have been too much intermixing even between ex-SECR/ex-LBSCR/ex-LSWR departmental wagons on the SR, pre-1948, as such vehicles generally seem to have been sourced/commandeered on a fairly localised (divisional?) basis. ......

Except, of course, the source of ballast changed dramatically after the Sevenoaks incident ...... I don't know whether the Southern then got ALL its ballast from Meldon ( in wagons from  the three constituents' ) but shingle from Dungeness and The Crumbles was very definitely off the menu.

Edited January 30, 2022 by Wickham Green too

[Dunsignalling]

11 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

Except, of course, the source of ballast changed dramatically after the Sevenoaks incident ...... I don't know whether the Southern then got ALL its ballast from Meldon ( in wagons from  the three constituents' ) but shingle from Dungeness and The Crumbles was very definitely off the menu.

True, but Meldon ballast was generally distributed in 40-ton hoppers if it had to go much further than Exeter, and I doubt the 2-planks would get mixed in with those other than (maybe) within a possession.

 

John

[Wickham Green too]

Plenty of stone left Meldon - in later years - in Grampus wagons, so I guess something low- or medium-sided would have been used in Southern days : this may have been scalpings for shovel-packing rather than bulk relaying ballast ??!?      Older vehicles would, no doubt , have been used for spoil ........ I've no idea where that was tipped - other than, perhaps 'new works'.

[Dunsignalling]

33 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

Plenty of stone left Meldon - in later years - in Grampus wagons, so I guess something low- or medium-sided would have been used in Southern days : this may have been scalpings for shovel-packing rather than bulk relaying ballast ??!?      Older vehicles would, no doubt , have been used for spoil ........ I've no idea where that was tipped - other than, perhaps 'new works'.

And, of course, in later years, 4-wheel hoppers (mainly Dogfish) also became common, but the bulk movements over longer distances continued to be in hoppers of either kind. Usually to Woking in the first instance, for onward movement to their final destinations to arrive when needed.

 

The Grampus wagons were indeed used for finer grades, as were similar older SR-built vehicles (Ling etc.) and those would  have intermingled the ex-SECR 2-planks in traffic  in a way that the hoppers seldom would have.

 

In latter years, at least, loads of remaining 2-plank wagons would generally have been ballast/chippings from local p-way depots to site and/or spoil in the other direction. Ultimately, the growing numbers of Grampus and their like are what sealed the fate of most smaller ballast wagons. 

 

John

 

 

 

 

Edited January 30, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Wickham Green too]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

....... the growing numbers of Grampus and their like are what sealed the fate of most smaller ballast wagons. 

Not to mention the increased use of ex-traffic opens - of all shapes and sizes - for spoil.

[Pteremy]

There is a photo of SECR 2 plank ES62461 (originally SECR 547) in 'Railways in Profile Series, No 7: Engineer's Stock - 1', p13. It is at Meldon in 1959, between 2 Grampus wagons.

[Dunsignalling]

15 minutes ago, Pteremy said:

There is a photo of SECR 2 plank ES62461 (originally SECR 547) in 'Railways in Profile Series, No 7: Engineer's Stock - 1', p13. It is at Meldon in 1959, between 2 Grampus wagons.

 

Lettered "Return Empty To Broadclyst", where the main SR Permanent Way depot for the Exeter area was situated. That suggests that spoil was tipped into the exhausted parts of Meldon Quarry.

 

My apologies if that's common knowledge!

 

John

 

[The Stationmaster]

20 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

And, of course, in later years, 4-wheel hoppers (mainly Dogfish) also became common, but the bulk movements over longer distances continued to be in hoppers of either kind. Usually to Woking in the first instance, for onward movement to their final destinations to arrive when needed.

 

The Grampus wagons were indeed used for finer grades, as were similar older SR-built vehicles (Ling etc.) and those would  have intermingled the ex-SECR 2-planks in traffic  in a way that the hoppers seldom would have.

 

In latter years, at least, loads of remaining 2-plank wagons would generally have been ballast/chippings from local p-way depots to site and/or spoil in the other direction. Ultimately, the growing numbers of Grampus and their like are what sealed the fate of most smaller ballast wagons. 

 

John

 

 

 

 

Low wagons such as Grampus and Lings were always used for chippings for ease of unloading at sites.   I don't think that any stone dust or scalping type material came out of Meldon by rail - that was definitely the case in the 1970s when the trains were running via Westbury (i understand that the 'waste' was sold off locally if it could be). 

[gwrrob]

Although this is a video featuring their Hunslet tank engine, the new range of wagons feature heavily.

 

 

[Dunsignalling]

That'll do.....

[Wickham Green too]

WOT ! .... no brake van !! .......................... must be the cue for a 'dancehall'.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Wickham Green too

[No Decorum]

On 01/02/2022 at 09:51, Wickham Green too said:

WOT ! .... no brake van !! .......................... must be the cue for a 'dancehall'.

Aha! Not only are we getting these but we have Bachmann SECR wagons (I know they aren’t the right mouldings) and SECR locos. Heck! Even SECR coaches. Is a brake van too much to ask for?

[Dunsignalling]

2 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

Aha! Not only are we getting these but we have Bachmann SECR wagons (I know they aren’t the right mouldings) and SECR locos. Heck! Even SECR coaches. Is a brake van too much to ask for?

If we are talking common chassis, Bachmann is the place to look for a Dancehall.

 

Same underframe as the 25t Pillboxes that superseded them...

 

John

[Nile]

But they would be SR built dancehalls. Even the SECR ones came very late in the era.

A much better choice for a brake van would be the type that shared a design with the Midland, killing a few more birds with that stone.

[Big James]

My pre-orders in. They look lovely.

 

As someone else said what’s the chances of a brake van. Seems like an open goal now. 
 

big James  

Edited February 5, 2022 by Big James

[Dunsignalling]

49 minutes ago, Nile said:

But they would be SR built dancehalls. Even the SECR ones came very late in the era.

A much better choice for a brake van would be the type that shared a design with the Midland, killing a few more birds with that stone.

 

Perhaps, but all the wagons are pretty late, too.

[Wickham Green too]

That's all a matter of relativity ........... yes, they're pretty late in terms of pregroupingness.

[Dunsignalling]

32 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

That's all a matter of relativity ........... yes, they're pretty late in terms of pregroupingness.

 

The comparison being drawn was between a late pre-group brake van and an earlier one being suggested as follow-ups to Maunsell/Lynes era wagons (post-1917).

Edited February 5, 2022 by Dunsignalling