PECO announces its entry into the TT gauge market

[bradfordbuffer]

42 minutes ago, Mr chapman said:

My thoughts as someone who was thinking about TT a year ago. 

 

It looked a nice scale, I saw a few layouts and thought why not give it a go. There was a particularly nice lyme regis layout that caught my eye. As a southern modeller a triang clan line would be a good starting point to detail and probably build an etched chassis for. So off to the 3mm section of Rmweb I went. After reading many pages of conflicting information and no one really seaming to agree on anything I quietly left. A niche scale dividing itself into yet smaller sub groups just felt odd. Talk of the prospect of a mk1, but to which scale? Should it be compatible with triang? Proper 1:100, even more proper 3mm? It put me off the scale completely. 

 

Now this announcement. A clear set of track, buildings and probable rolling stock... To a new standard, agreed on by the manufacturers. (You'd need to be daft if you thought peco hadn't run this by some rtr manufacturers)

 

THIS is making me have another look. I will buy a bit of track, a couple of buildings and a few wagons because it's nice and clear. We'll done peco. 

Sounds good don't it? 

Have you heard the 4mm models bickering between 00 EM P4? Sounds familiar even oo has factions

If it comes together like It says on the tin....its to 2.5mm scale not the nice 3mm scale you saw, to my eyes 1:120 European stock is starting to look small even though actually larger UK peco tt 1:120 will be a step closer to N gauge.

I wish the range well....can see some nice gwr branch lines popping up with a b set or two! Who knows the 3d printed stuff in 3mm might be shrunk to 2.5mm scale...only a click or two on slicing program ac 4wheel railbus.....gwr branch line......

[whart57]

38 minutes ago, Mr chapman said:

My thoughts as someone who was thinking about TT a year ago. 

 

It looked a nice scale, I saw a few layouts and thought why not give it a go. There was a particularly nice lyme regis layout that caught my eye. As a southern modeller a triang clan line would be a good starting point to detail and probably build an etched chassis for. So off to the 3mm section of Rmweb I went. After reading many pages of conflicting information and no one really seaming to agree on anything I quietly left. A niche scale dividing itself into yet smaller sub groups just felt odd.

 

 

Ah well, that's evolution for you. British 3mm scale (or TT-3, we can't even agree on that!) lost its fixed fulcrum - Triang - in 1965. Its development since then has been individuals doing their own thing and gifting their work to others. Occasionally the 3mm Society stepped in, codifying standards, producing finescale wheels, sponsoring a wagon kits programme from Parkside, creating a flexible trackbase and then producing wheels for a less exacting standard and so on. However, because the earliest serious modellers in the scale were dissatisfied with the fat Triang wheels with hefty flanges (as were contemporary OO scale modellers with their Triang offerings) alternatives proliferated. Much of this happened before the 3mm Society was born so we had two approaches to improving the scale/gauge ratio develop independently. Plus people rewheeling their Triang stuff with finer wheels from the likes of Romford. Three track gauges and three wheel standards, no wonder it seems no-one agrees.

 

 

[Revolution Ben]

 

Hello all,

 

This one is a surprise!   Well done, Peco!

 

For me the branding TT120 is simple and easy to understand, and at last the possibility of British outline models correct for scale/gauge straight from the box.  And there are potentially continental TT models that would suit British use.

 

For similar reasons to others I wouldn't be interested in one of the mish-mash 3mm scales, but TT120 is feels exciting and new.  I await developments with interest.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

 

 

 

[luke_stevens]

What about a repaint into Eurostar livery?

 

https://www.piko-shop.de/en/artikel/tt-ice3-db-v,-new-road-number-13933.html

 

It's the same part of the ICE3 family as the new Eurostars (Velaro e320) which is based on the Velaro D (DB Class 407).

 

So with a 66 we're getting read for a layout based on the the north bank of the Thames near Dagenham Dock. Many models of sliding door / soft wall vans already avaliable...

 

Luke

[Pmorgancym]

3 hours ago, luke_stevens said:

 I agree there is a lot proposed but the only significant expenditure they have made so far is on the track. Laser cut kits are low expenditure and the wagon is still a just a CAD image. 

 

If they get b****r all UK orders the track will still go ahead where as the other stuff will fade away.

 

The hobby is full of announcements that never materialised: I'm still waiting for the Wrenn Adams Radial to haul the Airfix Bulleids...

 

Luke

Yes there is that, but they also k ow the best way for the track to sell is for there to be stuff to run on it.  Be an interesting few months seeing what develops.

[PaulRhB]

3 hours ago, Flittersnoop said:

I'm still waiting. There's still very little continental Metre gauge stuff apart from the Swiss models.

and the German ones . .  😉

The HOm is a popular market on the continent though so it made it viable without UK involvement. 

[BernardTPM]

I like the irony of this 'Continental' scale using 1/10th inch to the foot...

[HSB]

7 minutes ago, BernardTPM said:

I like the irony of this 'Continental' scale using 1/10th inch to the foot...

It actually started in America.

[BernardTPM]

I know, but it's still a nice irony, I think.

[jpendle]

1 hour ago, BernardTPM said:

I know, but it's still a nice irony, I think.

I thought it was Nickel Silvery. 🤔

 

Hat, coat, etc.

 

John P

[RichardT]

13 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

More importantly, the Dean Goods has no waggly bits to go wrong, wheras both Flying Scotsman and Mallard have a full set that will need to be scaled down and then hand-assembled on to each model

It’s funny you should say this Phil, as I’ve been pondering this new development since my last post (not much else to occupy my mind on a 7 hour trans-Atlantic flight - how sad am I?)

We’ve had several posts about how TT is “an ideal compromise” between HO and N: but that’s a bit meaningless.  All scales are an “ideal compromise” between the one above and the one below (“Z is an ideal compromise between N and T”; “OO is an ideal compromise between O and TT” etc etc).

 

However, as you go smaller, some aspects of rtr model railways do become harder to achieve at a reasonable price, because of the mechanical difficulties involved, and reproducing realistic-looking steam locos is one of those aspects.  I model in N, and I favour LNER steam and US transition-era: but I have to admit that diesels and electrics look far far better in N than steam does: both in terms of fine accuracy of detail and also realistic operating performance.  I’m tempted by the range of LNER locos available in 4mm, I don’t have room for a layout in that scale.  But I’m *not* tempted to go HO for my US interests, because the US diesel models in N are pretty damn good. And, if you want to model British diesels and electrics in a small space, the current crop of rtr N models would likewise be hard to beat for looks and performance. I can’t see what TT would bring to that party.

 

So, despite all the postings above about the 66 and an 08, I do wonder if TT would actually be the best smallest scale for modelling rtr steam: you get more in the same space (like N) but the models are big enough to have accurate outside motion and body outlines without the crudity of even the best current N, and the expensive assembly costs of the same, and to perform as well as 4mm models. (The same point goes for British 3mm scale as well of course).  
 

So, TT-120 for a new era of decent rtr steam-era models??

 

Sorry - jet lagged rambling!

 

Richard

Edited June 8, 2022 by RichardT
Typos. Lots and lots of ‘em. Jet-lagged, as I said

[Dunsignalling]

Agree, who is going to desert the N gauge cornucopia of diesel-era (US or UK) models for one or two classes and something that takes up more room?

 

Whatever "recruitment" does take place is more likely to come from OO modellers who want to get more railway into the space they have available but think N is too small.

 

I would, however support the 08 as the ideal first small loco, given that they worked alongside steam for a good few years. I think that would have wider appeal than something region-specific like a Pannier or Jinty. 

 

John  

[Pmorgancym]

24 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Agree, who is going to desert the N gauge cornucopia of diesel-era (US or UK) models for one or two classes and something that takes up more room?

 

Whatever "recruitment" does take place is more likely to come from OO modellers who want to get more railway into the space they have available but think N is too small.

 

I would, however support the 08 as the ideal first small loco, given that they worked alongside steam for a good few years. I think that would have wider appeal than something region-specific like a Pannier or Jinty. 

 

John  

Might be the ideal shunting plank scale?  More space efficent than 00 and less fiddly than N

[Keith Addenbrooke]

I don’t normally comment on Trade Matters (I can’t keep up) but I’ll admit I’m intrigued / tempted by TT 1:120.  A couple of years ago now I invested a lot of time going through several planning iterations for a OO Gauge GW Branch Line, only to find my space at home getting squeezed each time I thought I’d got there.

 

So I switched to overseas Narrow Gauge modelling (a mix of H0e / HOn30 and H0m), and the space saving has proved more than significant.  I do find smaller H0e / 009 models and components fiddly, which points me away from N-Scale, so it would need something between N and OO for me to try UK standard gauge modelling again at the moment.  I have some 12mm (H0m) track already, and I found it a very comfortable size to work with - it makes my OO track look very big, but I can still see the detail.

 

In other words, I’m the kind of “target customer” that @Dunsignalling and @RichardT perhaps have in mind in their posts just above.  Having seen the proposed prices for the laser cut buildings, they don’t seem too expensive, which is helpful, and of course for me the GW theme is appealing.

 

I note the possible tie-in with existing European TT: the announced Gaugemaster range has a number of OHLE / Catenary components, and the couplings on the proposed Peco wagon look the same to me as European TT.  For someone with my interests that opens up another range of possibilities.

 

Only thing is, I’m enjoying Narrow Gauge modelling far too much at the moment, but I’ll be keeping an eye on this scale too now.

[Hobby]

A lot of us will, Keith, I've been a narrow gauge modeller for over 50 years now but I've always said that if I was to return to standard gauge it would be in TT, not the British TT3 but the true TT, 1:120, and quite probably German/Czech. I've modelled NG in TT and it truly is the ideal scale for the type of layout I like, scenic with detail. Back in my 00n3 days the BTTB/Zeuke stuff was what I used rather than the cruder and less well running Triang mechanisms, though to be fair all the 12mm gauge stull ran better than the early N. It's a real shame that Triang didn't do 1:120 way back then as I doubt N would have taken off quite so well if they had. I'll be following with interest how this goes.

[Phil Parker]

The 3D print market is already jumping on this bandwagon:

 

https://www.shapeways.com/product/EY897TGXH/peco-tt-1-120-lner-j70-scratchaid?fbclid=IwAR1tVfFfn9Pq6dEnCtrro02dS46omMrLS6-ayKM_AF7zLpAn3HJY1WCg0So

[Phil Parker]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

I would, however support the 08 as the ideal first small loco, given that they worked alongside steam for a good few years. I think that would have wider appeal than something region-specific like a Pannier or Jinty. 

 

Surely the benefit of the Pannier or Jinty is that they can haul trains out on the line as well as shunting. 08s might have performed some trip working, but it was far more limited than the others.

[bradfordbuffer]

14 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

The 3D print market is already jumping on this bandwagon:

 

https://www.shapeways.com/product/EY897TGXH/peco-tt-1-120-lner-j70-scratchaid?fbclid=IwAR1tVfFfn9Pq6dEnCtrro02dS46omMrLS6-ayKM_AF7zLpAn3HJY1WCg0So

Arnold köf 11 shunter has a silky-smooth 21mm wheel base 4 wheel underframe, underneath a skirted loco no need for valve gear

[PaulRhB]

9 minutes ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

GW Branch Line, only to find my space at home getting squeezed each time

 

10 minutes ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

Only thing is, I’m enjoying Narrow Gauge modelling far too much at the moment,

And once the Modelrail VoR tank becomes reality you’ll be able to combine both 😉

 

Going back to the wagon Peco announced as the “first of a number of vehicles we’ve got in development” that coupling does look huge and more intrusive than a tension lock due to its solidity! I know it’s a standard european one but it’s one thing I’d want to see a smaller replacement for, even the 009 loop would be preferable for me. 
 

screenshot from the video copyright Peco

[JohnR]

Isnt there a TT model of the DB V200 that could be used for a WR warship?

[Moxy]

16 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Going back to the wagon Peco announced as the “first of a number of vehicles we’ve got in development” that coupling does look huge and more intrusive than a tension lock due to its solidity! I know it’s a standard european one but it’s one thing I’d want to see a smaller replacement for, even the 009 loop would be preferable for me. 
 

 

If it has an NEM pocket (which it probably will), then changing the couplings will be a doddle. Peco even do 009 couplings to fit NEM pockets.

[spamcan61]

8 minutes ago, JohnR said:

Isnt there a TT model of the DB V200 that could be used for a WR warship?

I guess if you squint hard; must admit I find it odd to take the trouble to get the track gauge right, and then use very approximate rolling stock on it.

[Allegheny1600]

7 minutes ago, JohnR said:

Isnt there a TT model of the DB V200 that could be used for a WR warship?

There probably is but like the prototype, it’s much larger than it’s British counterpart, sorry.

Perfect if you’re happy with just a repaint though.

[HSB]

Not many people appear to have picked up on the fact that the PECO track is being made to quite fine standards which will probably mean any existing Continental models will have to be re-wheeled.

[Dunsignalling]

43 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Surely the benefit of the Pannier or Jinty is that they can haul trains out on the line as well as shunting. 08s might have performed some trip working, but it was far more limited than the others.

True, but if there is also going to be at least one "main line" engine (which is just as necessary early on if enough people are to adopt a new scale), the 08 can support that irrespective of its regional origins or whether it is a steam or diesel prototype. A Pannier or Jinty would only "go with" a much more specific choice of bigger engine. 

 

One reason for OO modellers to downscale might be to enable them to fit more than a BLT or shunting plank into their "pint pot", and only producing small branch-line/trip working/shunting locos could easily become off-putting for some.

 

John

Edited June 8, 2022 by Dunsignalling