What locomotives and rolling stock should be produced first?

[D9020 Nimbus]

There are actually quite a few EMUs in N—more than in any other scale, unless you model the Southern Region. As well as Revolution Trains, Farish have produced 4-CEP, 319 (and related), 350/450.

[natterjack]

I have a bit of a problem here as TT120 strikes me as an excellent size for layouts with full length trains ( e.g 8+ coaches) with the scale dimensions to accommodate the necessary motors and current expectations in fidelity- most discussion seems to concentrate on the smaller focus of a layout. I'd like to see a range of coaches to start with (perhaps Mk2), and ambition towards contemporary DMU and EMU and perhaps some new offerings of powered bogies (plus the Blue Pullman of course Bachmann).

 

Oh, and one last thing- will Hornby be looking to power up the Corgi Rail Legends? I'd love a Silver Jubilee or two.

 

Apologies for any repetition from previous pots

 

 

[natterjack]

Forgot to say- for the scratch builder, wheels, wheels and wheels. And more wheels.

[Hobby]

I suspect Mk1 coaches will be first, they are still seen on the main line, virtually the go-to for preservation groups and have been around 70 years. That covers most people's requirements.

Edited July 6, 2022 by Hobby
Spelling

[natterjack]

Appreciating the layout versatility of the Mk1s, any new gauge/scale venture should have a marketing eye to the future and resonate with the collective memories of  the younger generations, and that definitely includes trains without chimneys.

[luke_stevens]

On 04/07/2022 at 15:30, luke_stevens said:

 

It's not quite a repeat. I've been intouch with https://www.shapeways.com/shops/recreation21?li=pb and he's been happy to rescale to 1:120. I've ordered a building and will see how things go :)

 

Luke

 

I had an e-mail thsi morning confirming that my order has moved to preproduction, which means it has pass the "can this be printed to TT120?" stage.  It is still on schedule for arrival on 15th July.

 

Up-dates and photos to follow, of course.

 

Luke

[britishcolumbian]

7 hours ago, luke_stevens said:

 

I had an e-mail thsi morning confirming that my order has moved to preproduction, which means it has pass the "can this be printed to TT120?" stage.  It is still on schedule for arrival on 15th July.

 

Up-dates and photos to follow, of course.

 

Luke

I just received my print of his 16t mineral... and promptly broke it trying to fit an axle in - and this was with HP wheels, with narrower treads than BTTB/Tillig wheels... this material is rather fragile.

[luke_stevens]

11 minutes ago, britishcolumbian said:

I just received my print of his 16t mineral... and promptly broke it trying to fit an axle in - and this was with HP wheels, with narrower treads than BTTB/Tillig wheels... this material is rather fragile.

 

I don't think I've heard of HP wheels. Do you have a link?

 

Sorry it broke. I suspect I'll do the same with the staircase of the signal box I ordered...

 

Luke

[britishcolumbian]

43 minutes ago, luke_stevens said:

I don't think I've heard of HP wheels. Do you have a link?

There's no link - HP was Hal Joyce's company, the originator of TT scale back in the late 1940s. These wheelsets are likely 60 years old. 

 

I'll see about gluing the piece back, but I'm now at a loss as to what to do for wheels. 

[TEAMYAKIMA]

On 23/06/2022 at 21:49, andythenorth said:

Steam engines on heritage lines are liked caged zoo animals to me.  

 

Apologies for drifting slightly off topic, but your comment is exactly how I feel  -  post 1980 I spent tens of thousands of £'s travelling the world to see the remaining real steam operation, but heritage railways are just a family day out and, as I don't have a family, I tend not to visit them.

Edited July 8, 2022 by TEAMYAKIMA

[maridunian]

8 hours ago, britishcolumbian said:

I just received my print of his 16t mineral... and promptly broke it trying to fit an axle in - and this was with HP wheels, with narrower treads than BTTB/Tillig wheels... this material is rather fragile.

 

What's the axle length of those wheelsets and the distance between the W-Irons? 

 

Fine Detail Plastic will bend a little, especially if warmed in water (below 70°C) first. Even so, if the W-Iron gap is more than a millimetre narrower than the axle, you should file grooves to lead the pinpoints into the axle boxes.

 

Plastic axles in plastic axle boxes are likely to bind, so metal axles are preferable. 

 

Mike 

[Hobby]

8 hours ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

 

Apologies for drifting slightly off topic, but your comment is exactly how I feel  -  post 1980 I spent tens of thousands of £'s travelling the world to see the remaining real steam operation, but heritage railways are just a family day out and, as I don't have a family, I don't visit them!

 

Again apologies for the drift. But I don't think that's correct in every case. Certainly some places fit the description of caged beasts, my local one, the SVR, and one I've just been on fits that description, large locos and long trains on a single track branch. But conversely many recreate well what their railway used to be, especially many NG lines but also some of the smaller concerns. I don't feel its fair to tar all with the same brush.

[Jeff Smith]

13 hours ago, maridunian said:

 

What's the axle length of those wheelsets and the distance between the W-Irons? 

 

Fine Detail Plastic will bend a little, especially if warmed in water (below 70°C) first. Even so, if the W-Iron gap is more than a millimetre narrower than the axle, you should file grooves to lead the pinpoints into the axle boxes.

 

Plastic axles in plastic axle boxes are likely to bind, so metal axles are preferable. 

 

Mike 

Perhaps the 3D print should be designed with one side of the chassis, with W irons, as a separate piece to be glued on with the axles in position.  Some Peco O16.5 plastic and white metal kits are like this - you can't spring axles into white metal horn blocks!

[TEAMYAKIMA]

13 hours ago, Hobby said:

 

Again apologies for the drift. But I don't think that's correct in every case. Certainly some places fit the description of caged beasts, my local one, the SVR,  and one I've just been on fits that description, large locos and long trains on a single track branch. But conversely many recreate well what their railway used to be, especially many NG lines but also some of the smaller concerns. I don't feel its fair to tar all with the same brush.

 

Yes, I agree, my original post was slightly over the top and I have gone back and toned it down a bit. I think you're right about ng - for example, I would exempt lines like the Ffestiniog - it was originally a self-contained railway and still is.

 

 

[Hobby]

It's interesting with NG, the Garratts on the WHR could fit the bill for caged beasts but actually they suit the line well, unlike a Pacific on the SVR! However the continued use of such locos in locations they wouldn't have been during their working life does give modellers a reason to buy them, so adding to their appeal to the manufacturers. Hence I suggested that one of the better known Pacifics will probably turn up sooner rather than later in 1:120. 

Edited July 8, 2022 by Hobby
Spelling

[Keith Addenbrooke]

50 minutes ago, Hobby said:

It's interesting with NG, the Garratts on the WHR could fit the bill for caged beasts but actually they suit the line well, unlike a Pacific on the SVR! However the continued use of such locos in locations they wouldn't have been during their working life does give modellers a reason to buy them, so adding to their appeal to the manufacturers. Hence I suggested that one of the better known Pacifics will probably turn up sooner rather than later in 1:120. 

Tornado?

[Hobby]

I doubt it, Mallard or Flying Scotsman, both are more widely known outside enthusiast circles.

[Keith Addenbrooke]

1 hour ago, Hobby said:

I doubt it, Mallard or Flying Scotsman, both are more widely known outside enthusiast circles.

Fair point - although Tornado was in the Paddington 2 movie, the time to bring out a model would probably have been when it was new (the loco or the movie 🙂).
 

As I understand it, the Corgi Collectors range includes Flying Scotsman (and at least one other A3), Tornado and several A4s, as well as a Britannia, which may mean they could sell well - or conversely they’ve been done as far as Collectors are concerned.

 

I’ll guess we shall see, Keith.

[jmh67]

I've dabbled in Continental TT since I was a schoolkid in the 1970s, am still playing 1960s/1970s DR mostly with BTTB rolling stock, and only know the UK railways in the 1998 - 2012 era. Hence I may be heavily biased, but for what it's worth:

As nice as the classic and semi-classic rolling stock is, I'd rather see models of more modern eras from, say, the 1980s on. In particular:

• Pacers, Sprinters, Networkers on the passenger side. High-speed trains of any kind are too long for most layouts, so no real need for these. Perhaps some single carriages.
• Locomotives: the long-lived classes 31 and 37 would make sense, class 08 also because it's been the shunter. I'd rather use a class 20, however - it's got a longer wheelbase. Also classes 56, 66, and maybe 67 if some suitable passenger stock is available. Electric locomotives and catenary are too fiddly for me.
• Freight: if I only knew the designations! But some of the usual 4-axle steel-bodied open wagons surely won't be amiss, likewise some tankers. I am not too sure about others (covered vans?) as there wasn't much local freight in the time I could observe. Nuclear flask trains (dare I say it) sure are interesting, but a bit of a niche.

On a general note, if this idea gets off the ground, I hope that they take a sensible approach, no matter what era(s) they concentrate on first. "Bread-and-butter" rolling stock first! No use starting with exotic stuff just because it looks "nice" (think of DRG class 81, only 10 of which were built).

 

Martin

[KAR 120C]

Some exciting stuff in Ben Ando’s column in the August edition of Model Rail.  He is very positive about the introduction of UK TT:120 and holds out the possibility of Revolution Trains entering this market.  In particular he refers to the IZA cargo wagons, IWA hold-all vans and IPA car carriers, all of which Revolution have already produced in OO and N gauge, as likely candidates for rescaling to TT:120 as they would not only appeal to UK modellers but those across the Channel due to their use in other European countries.  A definite plus point for sales potential.

 

Given that a Class 59 (003 Yeoman Highlander) worked in Germany for a time, I wonder if Revolution could also be persuaded to rescale its forthcoming 59 to TT:120?

 

Interesting times!

[Keith Addenbrooke]

1 hour ago, KAR 120C said:

Some exciting stuff in Ben Ando’s column in the August edition of Model Rail.  He is very positive about the introduction of UK TT:120 and holds out the possibility of Revolution Trains entering this market.  In particular he refers to the IZA cargo wagons, IWA hold-all vans and IPA car carriers, all of which Revolution have already produced in OO and N gauge, as likely candidates for rescaling to TT:120 as they would not only appeal to UK modellers but those across the Channel due to their use in other European countries.  A definite plus point for sales potential.

 

Given that a Class 59 (003 Yeoman Highlander) worked in Germany for a time, I wonder if Revolution could also be persuaded to rescale its forthcoming 59 to TT:120?

 

Interesting times!

Thank you for this - for those like me who don’t read Model Rail it’s good to know.  
 

Both @Revolution Ben and @Revolution Mike have made some positive and balanced comments in the discussions on RMweb about TT:120 and the opportunity for modelling UK outline with a correct scale / gauge combination.  I’m not surprised they’re thinking about possible opportunities - and prototypes they’ve already covered that are used in Europe makes sense.  There’d still be a commercial risk with tooling for a third scale with an unknown market though, and I also wouldn’t know if they have an Overseas Distribution network for their existing products, so I expect the piece has been written with all due caution.

 

I’m not an industry insider, but from what I’ve seen of RevolutioN as a company, they make sensible business decisions carefully, so I also wouldn’t want to speculate / overstate anything, but this is welcome news nonetheless.  Thanks again for sharing it here, Keith.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Keith Addenbrooke

[britishcolumbian]

8 hours ago, jmh67 said:

No use starting with exotic stuff just because it looks "nice" (think of DRG class 81, only 10 of which were built).

 

The BR81 made little extra effort, though, since its chassis is the same used for the BR92.65 and the V36, just needed to modify the tooling of the BR92.65 body and presto.

[mdvle]

Speaking generically (with no knowledge of Revolution or anyone else's plans) I think it is a bit early in TT:120 for anyone to be considering a crowd funded (of whatever variety) product - I don't think there are sufficient people willing at this point to put up money in TT:120.

 

While the possibility of cross-Channel sales can potentially help make a few models more viable that could potentially be offset by the various issues that now must be faced by the seller (and buyer) in cross-Channel selling - and this will impact the viability of cross-Channel crowd funding as well.

 

So for the first several years my guess is that TT:120 will be supported by traditional RTR methods (the company fronts all the development costs and takes the risks) and by smaller cottage operations.

[Keith Addenbrooke]

28 minutes ago, mdvle said:

Speaking generically (with no knowledge of Revolution or anyone else's plans) I think it is a bit early in TT:120 for anyone to be considering a crowd funded (of whatever variety) product - I don't think there are sufficient people willing at this point to put up money in TT:120.

 

While the possibility of cross-Channel sales can potentially help make a few models more viable that could potentially be offset by the various issues that now must be faced by the seller (and buyer) in cross-Channel selling - and this will impact the viability of cross-Channel crowd funding as well.

 

So for the first several years my guess is that TT:120 will be supported by traditional RTR methods (the company fronts all the development costs and takes the risks) and by smaller cottage operations.

Hi @mdvle, fair point: re-reading my own response to @KAR 120C’s post about the column in Model Rail, I realise I haven’t clarified what is (and is not) being meant about timescales when I use phrases like “thinking about possible opportunities”.  In my mind that could be a three to five year timeframe while a manufacturer sees how the land lies and how Peco sales go, so no rush.

 

In addition to crowd-funding,  I think RevolutioN may have also used a ‘pre-order’ model for confirmed expressions of interest.  This is not crowd funding, as the capital is put up by the manufacturer against the value of firm orders placed (I don’t work in Finance anymore, but to my mind I wonder if this may even be an insurable business risk?).  

 

When it comes to trade related matters, I tend to rely on your posts here on RMweb for keeping up to date of course, as I know your finger is on the pulse when it comes to announcements, particularly for North American product lines and manufacturers.  I’m just pleased to read that RevolutioN may be interested in TT:120.  Keith.

[andythenorth]

2 hours ago, mdvle said:

Speaking generically (with no knowledge of Revolution or anyone else's plans) I think it is a bit early in TT:120 for anyone to be considering a crowd funded (of whatever variety) product - I don't think there are sufficient people willing at this point to put up money in TT:120.

 

This seems perfectly logical but might not be 🙂  If crowd-funding isn't viable, then capital-at-risk RTR probably isn't viable.

 

Unless Hornby come in with a full range (I'm not betting either way on that), TT:120 is highly niche stuff, it will be driven by a core set of interested people who are prepared to stake funds on it, which tilts towards crowdsourcing and sales guaranteed in advance of production.

 

But we will see.  Predicting the future is hazardous 😉

Edited July 13, 2022 by andythenorth