Oxfordrail - Adams Radial

[Dunsignalling]

So, does anyone know the source for the Sound version or is it just another cobbled together 'generic'?

The prototype hasn't steamed since 1990, so what do you think?

[Guest Midland Mole]

Well I am prepared to scoff a serving of humble pie. After being slightly negative about the EKR livery, we sold one today....only 24 hours since it came in.

 

- Alex

[SDJR7F88]

The prototype hasn't steamed since 1990, so what do you think?

 

So, does anyone know the source for the Sound version or is it just another cobbled together 'generic'?

My guess would be the M7 from Swanage. Heard it has a similar cylinder and wheel size, so guess it would be the closest real sound recording. Hearing the prototype at Warley it pretty good. Here's a link to my video of the stand and it can be seen and heard near the beginning. Hope it's of help. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIalnjuuW4U

Edited December 16, 2016 by SDJR7F88

[adb968008]

The prototype hasn't steamed since 1990, so what do you think?

Could always use the sound track of Sheena Eastons video with it...

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=76wW2KASmtA

:-)

Edited December 19, 2016 by adb968008

[JSpencer]

I wonder what research Oxfordrail used for their EKR livery. I have not yet found a photo which matches that of their model. However she was on the EKR for a while it might be based on a photo from a moment in time that I have not seen.

 

Admittedly photos of this loco on the EKR are rare indeed.

 

Here is one I found online : https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/RAILWAYS/BRITISH-STEAM-LOCOMOTIVES/LOCOMOTIVES-OF-RAILWAYS-NOT/i-gPc9fDX/A

 

You will notice that the lining on the side tanks are completely different in style to that on the model. The model follows the same style as the preserved LSWR livery which is not beyond the realms of impossibility, as she may have been like that when first brought (the photo clearly dates more towards the end of the EKR). Another difference is the number. It is not just a 5 but a No.5 on the bunker.

[Edwardian]

I wonder what research Oxfordrail used for their EKR livery. I have not yet found a photo which matches that of their model. However she was on the EKR for a while it might be based on a photo from a moment in time that I have not seen.

 

Admittedly photos of this loco on the EKR are rare indeed.

 

Here is one I found online : https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/RAILWAYS/BRITISH-STEAM-LOCOMOTIVES/LOCOMOTIVES-OF-RAILWAYS-NOT/i-gPc9fDX/A

 

You will notice that the lining on the side tanks are completely different in style to that on the model. The model follows the same style as the preserved LSWR livery which is not beyond the realms of impossibility, as she may have been like that when first brought (the photo clearly dates more towards the end of the EKR). Another difference is the number. It is not just a 5 but a No.5 on the bunker.

 

Ready to be shot down here in flames, as I profess no knowledge of the EKR, but, to me, the lining style on 488 as EKR No.5 resembles the LSW's Drummond lining style.

 

This I would not have expected for a couple of reasons.  First, because I would have thought she might have needed a repaint at some point between whenever she last received Drummond livery and 1919 when she went to the EKR.  Second, the RCTS volume (2) states that she went to the Ministry of Munitions on withdrawal by LSWR in September 1917 and "left Eastleigh Works painted dark green and numbered 27 in the following month"

 

LSWR livery was Urie sage green from 1914, however, RCTS volume 1 states that Drummond's lining style, chocolate borders with white edged black bands, continued to be applied until October 1917, precisely the point in time Eastleigh was repainting 488 as MoM No.27.

 

It is possible that as No.27 the locomotive was outshopped in plain, unlined dark green.  I wonder, though whether Eastleigh nevertheless lined the locomotive in LSWR style?  Would MoM even have had/specified a lining style?

 

Now the lining style looks, to me, to resemble Drummond's, and does not seem to resemble what I have seen of Urie's.  The similarity between Drummond's lining and that on EKR No.5 is surely not coincidence.  Was she sent off in 1917 in dark green but with Drummond chocolate borders and black edged white lining, the only EKR change in 1919 being the EKR initials and number?

[JSpencer]

There is a second photo in Bradley's books showing lining and numbering like the Oxfordrail one. I assume this to be taken earlier.

[tetsudofan]

Collected my sound-fitted EKR Radial from The Hobby Shop at Faversham yesterday and been playing around with it this morning. Quite impressed so far:

 

 

....and with some more Kent coalfield wagons with an SR Pillbox on its way to Shepherdswell to hand over the train to the big railway:

 

 

Most important thing for me is that this version of the Oxford Radial can actually climb gradients which my first Oxford Radial could not do. The EKR Radial took this short train up the gradient with no problem but don't think it can mange too  many more wagons on the gradient.

 

Loco comes fitted with a Loksound V4.O sound decoder with the speaker completely hidden from view. I've not taken the body off to see how they have done this!!

 

What I do like is that straight out of the box the sound level has been set at, what for me, is a sensible level - no need to quieten the decoder.

 

Apart from the Operations and Maintenance the model also comes with a very detailed Operating Manual for the decoder which, at the moment, I've not read in detail. Maybe bedtime reading....

 

Compared with the first release Radials Oxford, in my opinion, have certainly moved forward. So far I'm a happy bunny.

 

Keith

[amdaley]

It looks to be a lovely model.

Would anyone be kind enough to let us hear what it sounds like please ?

[mikeharvey22]

Ready to be shot down here in flames, as I profess no knowledge of the EKR, but, to me, the lining style on 488 as EKR No.5 resembles the LSW's Drummond lining style.

I believe that the EKR livery is based on Plate 5 in "The East Kent Railway" by Vic Mitchell and Keith Smith published by Middleton Press in 1989. ISBN 0 906520 61 4. The image is attributed to H. C. Casserley. The loco has plain 5 on the bunker, plain E K R on the tank side, and No. 5 on the front buffer beam but in shaded lettering. There is a similar photo taken at Shepherdswell in one of the EKR or Colonel Stephens monographs, as well as a rear view at a different date showing the lamp brackets, cab steps, mis-matched buffers and coal rails.

 

There is a bleached out photo of no 5 on this page. http://colonelstephenssociety.co.uk/the%20colonels%20railways/east%20kent%20light%20railway/east%20kent%20light%20railway%20photo%20gallery.html

Edited December 22, 2016 by mikeharvey22

[Edwardian]

I believe that the EKR livery is based on Plate 5 in "The East Kent Railway" by Vic Mitchell and Keith Smith published by Middleton Press in 1989. ISBN 0 906520 61 4. The image is attributed to H. C. Casserley. The loco has plain 5 on the bunker, plain E K R on the tank side, and No. 5 on the front buffer beam but in shaded lettering. There is a similar photo taken at Shepherdswell in one of the EKR or Colonel Stephens monographs, as well as a rear view at a different date showing the lamp brackets, cab steps, mis-matched buffers and coal rails.

 

There is a bleached out photo of no 5 on this page. http://colonelstephenssociety.co.uk/the%20colonels%20railways/east%20kent%20light%20railway/east%20kent%20light%20railway%20photo%20gallery.html

 

That is interesting, thanks.  Unfortunately I don't have that volume.  Does it show the same livery as that in the linked picture on the Col. Stephens site?

 

It's not the clearest picture for the purposes of gauging the lining, but it is sufficiently clear for me to suggest that this livery is different from the one depicted here https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/RAILWAYS/BRITISH-STEAM-LOCOMOTIVES/LOCOMOTIVES-OF-RAILWAYS-NOT/i-gPc9fDX/A (which is what I had referred to).

 

My best guess, would be:

 

- This picture https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/RAILWAYS/BRITISH-STEAM-LOCOMOTIVES/LOCOMOTIVES-OF-RAILWAYS-NOT/i-gPc9fDX/A shows the original livery when the loco was acquired.  As I say, this looks to me very much like the Drummond lining scheme.  The green shade is debatable.  RCTS has it as a dark green as opposed to "apple" Drummond green (might they have used Holly goods green?), and this might be what Oxford is intending to represent, however, it certainly looks like Drummond style lining.

 

- The photograph you linked.  This looks to be a different lining scheme.  A single line and I note the splasher-sandbox treatment.  I would have guessed that this picture represents the repainting to standard Southern green, which I assume was Maunsell olive green.  If so, Oxford's model does not match this shade, or the earlier Sage for that matter.  Obviously Oxford's is not in a Southern green, but also Oxford's white lining on the tank side (though not on the bunker!) has curved corners on the model, and square ones on the photograph. 

 

There is at least one key physical difference, too, the safety valves are covered on the model, but not in the linked photograph.  This is also the case with the earlier picture in Drummond-esque livery.

 

Fascinating stuff.  So I remain intrigued by the various liveries this locomotive wore. 

Edited December 23, 2016 by Edwardian

[Edwardian]

There is a second photo in Bradley's books showing lining and numbering like the Oxfordrail one. I assume this to be taken earlier.

 

Noted, but I would suggest this is the later livery, as it seems unlikely that it would have gained full Drummond style lining later on, and would only have worn this if sold out of SW service with it.

 

Having re-read your first post, I see what you mean by the similarity with 488's preserved livery - the light green and the black border and single white line - but this is Adams livery, so would not still be worn or applied 24 years after Drummond introduced his darker green and the complex lining scheme seen on the picture you found.  The picture you found must be earlier and the other pictures later.  How much later, I don't know.  

 

As the picture in the RCTS volume is one of Casserley's; might this help to date it?

Edited December 23, 2016 by Edwardian

[JSpencer]

Got mine today. A DCC sound fitted EKR version. Now this is design clever. A very small 8 pin sound and tiny speakers.

 

 

There is still an issue with the bogie though. While first run could not cope with change in incline at the bottom of the slope, the bogie on the new one now lifts off at the top of the slope.

 

Sounds great however.

Edited December 23, 2016 by JSpencer

[Mr chapman]

Well that tare's it. Changing my southern green preorder to sound fitted. Thanks chaps Hopefully when someone gets the time they can upload a clip of the sound version running

[JSpencer]

Well that tare's it. Changing my southern green preorder to sound fitted. Thanks chaps Hopefully when someone gets the time they can upload a clip of the sound version running

Hopefully my camera will do the sound version justice. It does sound very good and certainly loud enough. On mine the sound appears to be synced will the wheels in both DC and DCC too.

This is remarkable considering how compact the DCC set up is inside the loco which is all but within the footplate at the rear of the cab next to the bunker. And very invisible it is too.

 

They clearly used an 8 pin loksound V4 micro decoder. And here was me early in the thread saying they should have used a 6 pin like certain other manufacturers, well being pre fitted is even better regardless of chip type.

 

I will say that it appears that they did do some minor retooling to allow this so I am not sure how easy it would be to take the sound gubbins out of the latest batch and retrofit in the first especially as the sound part is fitted on the body side and not the chassis.

 

Build quality on this new batch is MUCH better. 30853 from the first batch had a slightly curved footplate (it should be flat), and in service, one set side steps fell off as did one buffer (in fairness both of my Hornby ones have each had one piece drop off) but this new model has none of these build issues. Wheel profile has improved too and I feel Oxford did a better job adding colour to the EKR wheels than Hornby did with 488. Well, that is just my feeling and there is not much in it (both are now good models).

Daylight is still blocked just under the boiler on the Oxford model, but that is the only advantage that the Hornby one now has. You don,t notice that in day to day use, both can quite happily sit side by side on shed without one having the sentiment that one looks better than the other.

 

Now how about Kent coalfield wagons to go with her Oxford?

Edited December 25, 2016 by JSpencer

[JSpencer]

Here is quick video I've done showing the sounds. Sorry the camera is out of focus, I'll try and do a better one later.

 

 

 

Overall, the sounds are very good. The shoving coal is at a background level (for a nice change), the whistles need to be louder, however Oxford do provide a complete list on the CVs and have special section on modifying the volumes of each sound.

 

Running wise, track work really needs to dead flat, my layout is modular to allow transportation, so there can be slight angles where the boards meet.

Edited December 28, 2016 by JSpencer

[D9020 Nimbus]

The video gives the impression that only the "coal-shoveling" and whistle sounds work when the loco isn't moving, is that in fact the case?

[amdaley]

Here is quick video I've done showing the sounds. Sorry the camera is out of focus, I'll try and do a better one later.

 

 

 

Overall, the sounds are very good. The shoving coal is at a background level (for a nice change), the whistles need to be louder, however Oxford do provide a complete list on the CVs and have special section on modifying the volumes of each sound.

 

Running wise, track work really needs to dead flat, my layout is modular to allow transportation, so there can be slight angles where the boards meet.

 

Cheers for the video.

Nice to hear what the loco sounds like.

When you say track needs to be dead flat do you mean the loco doesn't like gradients or is unforgiving of poorly laid track ? 

[cromptonnut]

Thanks for the video, I've got the Southern green one on pre-order, due soon apparently.

[JSpencer]

Cheers for the video.

Nice to hear what the loco sounds like.

When you say track needs to be dead flat do you mean the loco doesn't like gradients or is unforgiving of poorly laid track ?

 

Basically there is almost zero down play on the front bogie, so any change in incline in a negative sense causes the wheels (now of much finer profile than the original batch) to just clear the top of the rail, causing the front end to derail.

My rails switch from flat to super elevation on the curves, and this loco has a 50/50 chance of derailing each time it takes it.

It can come of where the boards join. The rails are flat and perfectly aligned, there is just sometimes a slight change in angle. Only these radials exhibited this fussiness, rather odd for prototype that lasted so long because it was the only one which could cope with an awkward route!

We are talking about track work, that it's rival, the E4, I3, O2 and every other type of RTR copes with easily.

Edited December 28, 2016 by JSpencer

[amdaley]

Basically there is almost zero down play on the front bogie, so any change in incline in a negative sense causes the wheels (now of much finer profile than the original batch) to just clear the top of the rail, causing the front end to derail.

My rails switch from flat to super elevation on the curves, and this loco has a 50/50 chance of derailing each time it takes it.

It can come of where the boards join. The rails are flat and perfectly aligned, there is just sometimes a slight change in angle. Only these radials exhibited this fussiness, rather odd for prototype that lasted so long because is the only one which could cope with an awkward router.

We are talking about track work, that it's rival, the E4, I3, O2 and every other type of RTR copes with.

 

Time to get the Dremel out so 

[BG John]

Basically there is almost zero down play on the front bogie, so any change in incline in a negative sense causes the wheels (now of much finer profile than the original batch) to just clear the top of the rail, causing the front end to derail.

My rails switch from flat to super elevation on the curves, and this loco has a 50/50 chance of derailing each time it takes it.

It can come of where the boards join. The rails are flat and perfectly aligned, there is just sometimes a slight change in angle. Only these radials exhibited this fussiness, rather odd for prototype that lasted so long because is the only one which could cope with an awkward router.

We are talking about track work, that it's rival, the E4, I3, O2 and every other type of RTR copes with.

I could get interesting when I eventually convert mine to P4 then!

[tender]

Here is quick video I've done showing the sounds. Sorry the camera is out of focus, I'll try and do a better one later.

https://youtu.be/qRYW_S7jqdE

Overall, the sounds are very good. The shoving coal is at a background level (for a nice change), the whistles need to be louder, however Oxford do provide a complete list on the CVs and have special section on modifying the volumes of each sound.

Running wise, track work really needs to dead flat, my layout is modular to allow transportation, so there can be slight angles where the boards meet.

Is there any indication as to what manufacturer the sound chip is?

[SRman]

I succumbed just before Christmas and ordered the BR early crest version from Rails. I got it for £69.50 minus VAT, but must have got in just in time, because I noted it was £10 dearer in Rails' sales section after Christmas. I was looking to the Hornby model, but when that price came up, I decided I could certainly live with the minor shortcomings of the Oxford model. It's called excellent value for money!

It could take a little while to get here to Australia with the holidays and seasonal mail traffic, but I can wait.

I was considering getting a sound-fitted radial, but would like to know how good (or bad) the sound is first, and also, echoing tender's post, what manufacturer the sound decoder comes from.

[JSpencer]

Is there any indication as to what manufacturer the sound chip is?

 

Loksound V4, 8 pin micro size decoder. My post 1796 shows that it tightly hidden in a space between the back of the cab and the bunker.