cravensdmufan Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 As reported in The Times today. Intercity 125's will deliver Amazon parcels GB Railfreight are planning to operate Britain's first high speed cargo service with refitted 125's between distribution centre near Doncaster and London. GBR spokesman said that each train will be able to carry as many parcels as six lorries. Trains will be refitted after they are replaced by new trains on EC and GW main lines. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Can't see how refitting a HST for parcels will be cheaper then 6 standard lorries Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravensdmufan Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 Can't see how refitting a HST for parcels will be cheaper then 6 standard lorries I would assume that speed is a major factor in their plan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Is it April the first already ?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesperus Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 If you factor in loading time it would be quicker to use 317 EMU's without seats even if they had to drag them into the loading dock with a Gronk. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 If you factor in loading time it would be quicker to use 317 EMU's without seats even if they had to drag them into the loading dock with a Gronk. Probably a job for redundant 319s with their 3rd rail capability. Can't see why HSTs are being considered on an AC electrified route! If they are going to use Mk3 coaches (presumably fitted with roller doors) why not use DVTs with 90s or 92s and run longer trains. It is not like the catenary will get in the way of loading into coaches. 2x 43 = 4500HP 1x 90 = 5000HP (+11%) 1x 91 = 6480HP (+45%) 1x 92 = 6760HP (+50%) I guess holding out for the 91s (or using them at night as originally intended) might be favourite for speed and power, should get 13x Mk3 + DVT going at 125mph with similar performance to HST. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 So that's the new contract that Vivarail were hinting they had lined up for ex D78 stock... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Aren't there already a load of dual voltage EMUs specifically designed for parcels traffic in the form of 325s? A HST or other 125mph train would make sense if the idea is to run them during the day - not a ridiculous idea now that Amazon it's doing some degree of same day delivery, it would help them to expand that service. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 You can't cut big holes for roller doors in a HST Mark 3, will they be using just the power cars with other stock? If diesel is necessary would not 67's be more suitable since that is what they were designed for? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Can't see how refitting a HST for parcels will be cheaper then 6 standard lorries Me neither. These would be short HSTs because 8 Mk3's would fit a lot more than 8 lorry loads & you would be waiting all day to get enough orders to fill it, which misses the point of their quick delivery. Electrics have been mentioned. Amazon have more than 1 distribution centre, one of which is close to J13 of the M1, right next to the Bedford-Bletchley line which is diesel only. They may not be considering this location at the moment but if successful, a diesel service could be expanded to include this site. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 And where are these train paths on the ECML? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 The ORR might have something to say about this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 11, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 11, 2017 Will they be able to fly as well? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted February 11, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 11, 2017 So just how much weight can a mk3 hold? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted February 11, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 11, 2017 And where are these train paths on the ECML? Overnight, one presumes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 There's no mention of Amazon in this FT article. https://www.ft.com/content/39276ea8-ed53-11e6-930f-061b01e23655 It seems to be a speculative punt by GB Railfreight. Presumably using existing stock means keeps costs down, and I guess you'd strip the insides out of the Mk3 trailer and load the parcels in to trolleys narrow enough to fit through the doors. So just how much weight can a mk3 hold? At a guess, at least 6-7 tons, based on how many passengers you can cram in to one at crush loading. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 There's no mention of Amazon in this FT article. https://www.ft.com/content/39276ea8-ed53-11e6-930f-061b01e23655 It seems to be a speculative punt by GB Railfreight. Presumably using existing stock means keeps costs down, and I guess you'd strip the insides out of the Mk3 trailer and load the parcels in to trolleys narrow enough to fit through the doors. At a guess, at least 6-7 tons, based on how many passengers you can cram in to one at crush loading. Link requires subscription! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 I guess six lorries equates to around four container flats, so perhaps it will be a HST based version of Network Rail's MPV with a dozen containers?. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peanuts Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Me neither. These would be short HSTs because 8 Mk3's would fit a lot more than 8 lorry loads & you would be waiting all day to get enough orders to fill it, which misses the point of their quick delivery. Electrics have been mentioned. Amazon have more than 1 distribution centre, one of which is close to J13 of the M1, right next to the Bedford-Bletchley line which is diesel only. They may not be considering this location at the moment but if successful, a diesel service could be expanded to include this site. believe me having worked for Argos for the last 13 weeks on there fasttrack delivery system you wont .order before12 am goods in store by 4pm or 12pm in store by 7 am ,started out with 12 7.5t trucks to cover the routes now switched over to 10 12t trucks due to capacity issues (mainly weight ) thats just covering 14 hubstores in the northwest of england and its only going to get bussier as it rolls out across the country . first few weeks we were taking four deliverys on one 7.5t truck by the end we were taking two 7,5 t trucks to each delivery and argos are about 3 years behind Amazon believe me a six coach train would fill up very quickly with cages Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted February 11, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 11, 2017 Probably a job for redundant 319s with their 3rd rail capability. Can't see why HSTs are being considered on an AC electrified route! If they are going to use Mk3 coaches (presumably fitted with roller doors) why not use DVTs with 90s or 92s and run longer trains. It is not like the catenary will get in the way of loading into coaches. 2x 43 = 4500HP 1x 90 = 5000HP (+11%) 1x 91 = 6480HP (+45%) 1x 92 = 6760HP (+50%) I guess holding out for the 91s (or using them at night as originally intended) might be favourite for speed and power, should get 13x Mk3 + DVT going at 125mph with similar performance to HST. The spare 319s are being lined up for conversion into bi-modes (which thanks to their 3rd rail capability is fairly easy to arrange) In any case if this trial is to work, flexibility in routing is key - and the way UK OHL electrification is restricted to radial main lines (with limited connections between them) is a big disadvantage of electric traction (including the 325s). HSTs thus have the potential other trains don't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mow Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Link requires subscription! Parcel plan offers new life for Intercity 125 trains Type above words into google - look for cached version. Looks like an overnight service from Doncaster to unnamed London Terminal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Boar Fell Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 I suppose the benefit of a HST over a unit is if the trial is successful, adding extra vehicles back into the formation is a good bit simpler than converting an extra unit. Also the point has been made elsewhere, the HSTs may well be going cheap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Doncaster to London - the route being discussed - is fully wired, right from the line just by the Amazon warehouse. With GOBlin now being wired there can't be many places in London that are not electrified. Perhaps this is just a proof of concept with available redundant stock that is cheap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted February 11, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 11, 2017 What a lot of negativity! Just go to any motorway and watch the convoys of trucks each night . There has got to be scope to get some of that on rail. And if it sorts the daily M6 grind especially between junctions 15 and 27 with overtaking lorries , one travelling 2mph faster than the others, then great. Just taking a small portion off the roads would help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 The benefit of a HST is that if the service is over night and the ECML is blocked, it can just go another way (MML I guess). The explosion in parcels traffic the last few years is something that rail really ought to be able to take advantage of, with generally fast links between city centres, and platforms that could be used over night in many other places too. Whether the speed that rail can offer can be usefully exploited is the thing - if it has to leave dispatch centre by 2100 and be at the distribution hub by 0600, the fact that rail takes 2-3 hours compared to 5-6 on a truck is no benefit. Running a train during the day to offer same-day delivery (order by 11, on the train by 1, dispatched from the distribution centre by 4...) would be something that road couldn't match. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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