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Heljan announces the development of a Class 50





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#1 MGR Hooper!

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 13:50

https://www.facebook.com/heljanas/

 

Heljan 'O' new loco announcement

It has come to our attention that another manufacturer may be considering producing a locomotive that we have already started development of.

This locomotive is the English Electric/BR class 50.

Our plan is to produce the class 50 in its refurbished form in up to six livery options.

We are working closely with preservationists on this project and will release further updates as the model develops further.

 

 

 


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#2 Trains4U

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 13:54

Well that's unfortunate, 

 

I see in the e-mail the word 'may' is in italics.

 

I'd have preferred if they'd done a class 66 to be honest.


Edited by Trains4U, 05 April 2017 - 13:56 .

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#3 MGR Hooper!

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 13:57

Well that's unfortunate, 

 

I see in the e-mail the word 'may' is in italics.

 

I'd have preferred if they'd done a class 66 to be honest.

Or a Class 56?


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#4 Stevelewis

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 14:14

Heljan's  Class 50  news,  is  now  appearing  on Tower-models.com  website  currently  in  brief   with  updates  to  follow....



#5 woodenhead

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 14:23

So Dapol drop a 50 in N and go for O or perhaps Hornby have some O gauge plans - that scaled up 87 3D print at exhibitions always struck me as interesting.

 

Of course having just read through the Heljan O 37 thread and seen the blacked out cowling and incorrectly positioned engine room windows will this be a rush to market on both sides.



#6 admiles

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 14:30

Sorry Heljan. I'm sticking with the LLC one if it gets released.  The timing of your announcement does you no favors at all IMHO.



#7 F-UnitMad

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 14:32

So Dapol drop a 50 in N and go for O or perhaps Hornby have some O gauge plans - that scaled up 87 3D print at exhibitions always struck me as interesting.
 

Neither. The 'other' 50 is a Crowd-funded plan, involving the Little Loco Co. Heljan have just had a Brown Trousers moment, I reckon, as with their track record of errors major & minor, it's about time they had some good competition to put the wind up them.
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#8 woodenhead

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 15:23

There is a danger with all their O models they have locked out entrants as there is little to go at but that 37 looked like they had reached the pinnacle of not giving a stuff.


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#9 red death

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 15:44

The timing of Heljan's announcement is inevitable given the announcement from others particularly if they have already spent money on CAD and tooling (have they said what stage they are at)? I don't think you can really blame Heljan for speaking up now better now than when others are much further down the road. First to announce is not necessarily most advanced in work, nor should announcements be used to block others!

Having said which both potential manufacturers now have to weigh up return on investments and decide whether to proceed. It may be both can make it work - I've no concept of potential sales or scale of the O gauge market.

Cheers Mike
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#10 Wolf27

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 16:50

The LLC have stated they intend to carry one. Being largely crowdfunded shouldn't make to much of an impact, it is offered much cheaper and to a higher spec.

Cheers

Shane
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#11 47606odin

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 08:12

going with LLC log. hopefully at least, it won't get split gears


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#12 jjb1970

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 20:09

I'm finding the threads about the new O gauge class 50 models a bit odd.

 

On the one hand we have people complaining because one model is being promoted via facebook and excluding people who don't use facebook. If somebody wants to fund a model then it is entirely up to them how they want to market it, quite frankly is somebody was mad enough to pay a factory to produce an O gauge 50 just so they could smash them all up for fun then it's their money and it's a free world.

 

On the other hand we see people whinging because Heljan announced a model as if they're doing something wrong. Heljan appear to have been working on this longer than the crowd funded one and it is entirely reasonable for them to let the market know that they're working on one. They're not asking for crowd funding or anything so people are free to see what the model looks like when it arrives and then make a decision whether or not it is any good.

 

There is no state committee for the allocation of prototypes to model producers, people might not like duplication but there is nothing wrong with it and it is for the producers to make their own decision whether or not to proceed when they are aware a model will be duplicated. Personally, and this is just my personal opinion and is not meant as a slight on crowd funders, I'm not into crowdfunding and don't use facebook so the LLC managed project wouldn't be of interest to me but I certainly don't object to crowdfunding or using facebook. So for me, I'd rather take a punt with a regular release as I can make a decision whether or not to buy based on what I think of the model and not get involved in paying up front to produce models but that is just me. It's a free world and the market benefits from choices.


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#13 Karhedron

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 15:25

There is no state committee for the allocation of prototypes to model producers, people might not like duplication but there is nothing wrong with it and it is for the producers to make their own decision whether or not to proceed when they are aware a model will be duplicated.

 

Whilst certainly true, I think the frustration with duplication stems from the fact that as companies have limited R&D resources, duplicating a particular prototype means that another is not getting modelled at all. Sadly I don't think that there is a way of avoiding this.


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#14 F-UnitMad

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 16:50

It's a free world and the market benefits from choices.

That's more-or-less the point; until recently the only choice for 7mm diesels was various kits, or Heljan R-T-R.
Heljan thus seemed to adopt a "take it or leave it" attitude with the accuracy or otherwise of their models. The emergence of other 7mm R-T-R manufacturers is surely a wake-up call to HJ to improve their standards and review their pricing (*think Shunters*) if they want to keep a big slice of the R-T-R market.
I happen to like HJ locos; I can't afford to own many of them, but if they're the best option of a duplicated class I wanted, I'd go for that. If someone else does a better version, well there's the choice... ;)
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#15 jjb1970

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 20:07

I can understand that people would prefer that model companies directed their resources into projects that avoided duplication but unfortunately it is inevitable there will be duplication unless there was some sort of anti-competitive cartel arrangement to slice up the market between the producers. And cartels don't benefit anybody, they don't even benefit producers in the longer terms as it tends to suck competitiveness and innovation out of companies which operate within the safe confines of a cartel. I really don't see anything wrong if two producers go head to head with the same release and I don't see much evidence of nefarious intent in duplication.

On prices I'd expect a crowd funded model to be significantly cheaper. Crowd funding de-risks a project and also manages cash flow, whereas if a company develops a model in the conventional sense they carry their own risk and manage cash flow and finance. In that respect there are clearly some big attractions of the crowd funding model and it does lend itself to the more obscure prototypes. Dapol are pricing some of their O gauge models very aggressively but I tend to think that Dapol are offering terrific value more than Heljan being over priced for the most part.

With regard to quality/realism, I've never had issues with Heljan quality but it's true that they have often had a habit of making models which are so nearly there but not quite there which can be very frustrating. But, until models are released it is speculative to imagine which of duplicated releases might be better. Personally I welcome the choice and think that the market benefits from it.



#16 Gary H

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 20:37

Hmm, so Heljan are producing a 50.

This should be good for a laugh!



#17 Roy Langridge

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 21:47

Hmm, so Heljan are producing a 50.
This should be good for a laugh!


Why? Their Peak has been pretty well received.

Roy

#18 Gary H

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 09:20

Why? Their Peak has been pretty well received.

Roy

Indeed. The Peak is fine.

The worrying thing for me referance a 50 is the fact that since its Lima inception in circa 1980 ish, no one has yet managed to get it right.

I cant honestly see Hejan being any differant.

If I am wrong, il be one of the first to buy one. 

OOC1975.jpg

 (16).jpg

The one fundamental flaw in all of them is the slope downwards of the windscreens spoiling the 'face' of the loco.


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#19 Gary H

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 14:26

Another usefull picture of that windscreen slant that seems to alude all the models produced to date, shown to good effect here-  https://www.flickr.c...s-93867311@N07/

It would be nice if Heljan could crack this one once and for all!

JLTRT came close but still no cigar unfortuantely.



#20 The Nth Degree

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 16:49

I really do not like contributing on another manufacturer's product thread, so please do excuse me, but I simply wanted to point out a couple things.

 

Little Loco Company will be producing the 'as-built' loco AND the refurbished loco. The additional tooling costs are pretty negligible over the entire run, so it make sense to me. We're also producing all of the liveries carried by both types – there's no 'upto' or 'maybe' in our line-up.

 

As is the normal procedure for LLC, we are working with preservation groups, owners and specific charities to give something back to the railway community. None of the groups we are working with have knowingly been approached by any other manufacturers recently.

 

Finally, to clarify the crowdfunding position, these early funders are paying a good proportion of the development and production costs of the model. In return for that they will receive a significant discount on the RRP. After all the early funder's orders have been satisfied the models will be available directly from us and from our small band of valued and faithful retailers – most of which are family owned.

 

I personally welcome competition to us in the same way that LLC will provide competition – and we all benefit. Keener prices and better quality models are the result, and being a modeller myself I'm very interested in that. LLC is committed to two things: that we produce the most accurate models we can afford; and we give anything we don't need back to the people and organisations that preserve our industrial heritage. A part of that ethos is that we now produce as much of our models in the UK as possible.

 

I don't want anyone to read this as any sort of detriment or critique of Heljan or any other manufacturer, I'm simply pointing out there is a choice and everyone is free to make it.


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#21 Hilux5972

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 17:38

I preordered 2 for my display cabinet. I’m not an O Gauge modeller so this could lead down a dangerous path.

#22 uk_pm

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 19:37

I preordered 2 for my display cabinet. I’m not an O Gauge modeller so this could lead down a dangerous path.

 

You need to be careful.  I started with a few display models, and then realised it was cruel to keep such magnificent beasts cooped up in captivity. And now have a (small) O gauge layout beside my (rather larger) OO gauge one!  Enjoy.  


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#23 Hilux5972

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 23:22

You need to be careful. I started with a few display models, and then realised it was cruel to keep such magnificent beasts cooped up in captivity. And now have a (small) O gauge layout beside my (rather larger) OO gauge one! Enjoy.


Yeah I fear I may end up doing the whole “oh I need a short length of track and a controller just to see them run” thing which will end up being huge lol.

#24 delticfan

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 17:16

Yeah I fear I may end up doing the whole “oh I need a short length of track and a controller just to see them run” thing which will end up being huge lol.

Be very careful, be very careful five years on....starting with a Class 20 bought because it looked good!!
Class 37
Western
Class 31
Prototype Deltic
Production Deltic
Class 40
Falcon - Blue
Falcon - Lime Green
Warship
Class 25
Class 08 green
Class 08 blue
Class 45
Class 37 blue

Good job the Mrs is understanding!

#25 Hilux5972

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 05:39

Be very careful, be very careful five years on....starting with a Class 20 bought because it looked good!!
Class 37
Western
Class 31
Prototype Deltic
Production Deltic
Class 40
Falcon - Blue
Falcon - Lime Green
Warship
Class 25
Class 08 green
Class 08 blue
Class 45
Class 37 blue

Good job the Mrs is understanding!


Yes I may well be the same haha. Oh well, enjoy life.