Basic customer service at exhibitions

[OOgaugeJaf]

In the case of Warley I suspect very few will be interested in anything other than stampeding to the Bachmann returns jumble sale, so enjoy your breakfast.

It’s not been worth it the last couple of years. Nearly new prices on a lot of items

[OOgaugeJaf]

I think it all comes down to insurance risk. If setup is not complete due to late arrives it’s only right to keep the general public out.

[hayfield]

Doors open at X o'clock. Tickets are sold from X o'clock........Volunteers job done. 

 

 

But I NEED to get in first so I can fill my rucksack with ALL* the bargains so I can annoy everyone else all day! 

 

 

* Obviously there are only enough bargains for me hence the need to be first. 

 

 

Like a lot of senior management, they know the theory but have no knowledge of the real world.

 

 

I think it all comes down to insurance risk. If setup is not complete due to late arrives it’s only right to keep the general public out.

 

 

As usual things go off on a tangent and everyone demands that their own pet hates are satisfied

 

1/   I don't think the poster wanted to get in early, but avoid avoidable delays

 

2/   Selling tickets early takes pressure off those selling the tickets, and shows due consideration to ones customers

 

3/   When ever I have been a steward a big part of my job is to ensure the paying guests ( public) are having a good time, yes they are paying for the privilege of attending and the traders who have paid handsomely to attend and sell their wares do not want unhappy prospective customers

 

4/   Some of the replies do show up traits of jobsworth, their way or no way, clipboard dictators what ever we call it does a disservice to our hobby, we are not talking about the Mongol hordes attending, on the whole they a bunch of very nice and considerate customers. To all the jobsworth's this comes to mind  "rules are for the guidance of wise men and obedience of fools"

 

5/    Whilst health and safety and insurance requirements must be observed, the extension of incorrectly using these two areas as an excuse not to do something is wrong.

 

6/   If you think giving a good service to your customers is demeaning, then give up stewarding, you are both doing yourself and the public a disservice. If someone wants a moan, they may be right some of the time,  otherwise just smile and get on with life

 

7/   The aim of most shows is to obtain funds to support a clubs existence, its in the clubs best interests (especially if we are talking about annual shows) to look after their guests, so they are happy to come back. In the end they are guests who are financially supporting your club

[Mike Buckner]

That's one point of view. Many others have disagreed. It's not helpful to call them jobsworths, or suggest people should break rules when it suits them. Many good reasons for opening at the advertised time have been put forward.

[hayfield]

That's one point of view. Many others have disagreed. It's not helpful to call them jobsworths, or suggest people should break rules when it suits them. Many good reasons for opening at the advertised time have been put forward.

 

 

Mike

 

I have not called all those who run or assist at show's "jobsworth's", but those of us who have freely given up our time to assist at shows, do come across them and sadly quite often they push themselves to the front, thankfully the vast majority of those working at shows are a credit to the hobby

 

Secondly please read what I have said  rules are for the guidance  If it is a case that the rule has to be obeyed then that's fine, however quite often it is the way the rules are interpreted that is the issue, not the rule itself. Something the H&S governing body has stated  is quite often misused just as an excuse not to do something, insurance is the latest objection again being used

 

For example in golf Law of the game is to be obeyed, but rules are open to interpretation. There is a book which is revised every other year by the R&A "interpretation on the rules of golf". For golfers can be quite an amusing read, but is often used at clubs to adjudicate after a competition.

 

Lets just say for the benefit of both event holders and visitors to shows, look at ways we can do things rather than not doing them 

[Clive Mortimore]

As usual things go off on a tangent and everyone demands that their own pet hates are satisfied

 

1/   I don't think the poster wanted to get in early, but avoid avoidable delays

 

2/   Selling tickets early takes pressure off those selling the tickets, and shows due consideration to ones customers

 

3/   When ever I have been a steward a big part of my job is to ensure the paying guests ( public) are having a good time, yes they are paying for the privilege of attending and the traders who have paid handsomely to attend and sell their wares do not want unhappy prospective customers

 

4/   Some of the replies do show up traits of jobsworth, their way or no way, clipboard dictators what ever we call it does a disservice to our hobby, we are not talking about the Mongol hordes attending, on the whole they a bunch of very nice and considerate customers. To all the jobsworth's this comes to mind  "rules are for the guidance of wise men and obedience of fools"

 

5/    Whilst health and safety and insurance requirements must be observed, the extension of incorrectly using these two areas as an excuse not to do something is wrong.

 

6/   If you think giving a good service to your customers is demeaning, then give up stewarding, you are both doing yourself and the public a disservice. If someone wants a moan, they may be right some of the time,  otherwise just smile and get on with life

 

7/   The aim of most shows is to obtain funds to support a clubs existence, its in the clubs best interests (especially if we are talking about annual shows) to look after their guests, so they are happy to come back. In the end they are guests who are financially supporting your club

Hi John

 

I think you missed my two main points.

 

As soon as you start to sell tickets early or in advance people want to come in earlier as they have their ticket. You see that with the advance ticket holders getting in half an hour before the lower mortals at the bigger shows. Surely the idea of advance tickets is so you don't have to queue, not to get in early.

 

Bring the opening time forward or if the guys on the door are bullied enough letting people in early then what time will the exhibitors have to set up, leave home etc. I am leaving home so I can get to Warley for the advance ticket holders at 5.00am next weekend. It is a hobby, we are exhibitors not employees, it is supposed to be enjoyable. Why have people got to be first in and if they can early, the exhibition will be the same no matter what time it starts?

 

If start times do creep forward to align with the likes of Warley I for one will not being doing one day shows where accommodation is not provided on the Friday night.

Edited November 14, 2018 by Clive Mortimore

[RedgateModels]

You have my sympathy Clive,

 

The last time I exhibited Fourgig East other than our own show I used some of my travelling expenses to book a cheap b&b on the Friday night, I'm getting too old to get up at 6, drive an hour or so, set up and operate all day.

 

It worked out really well as the venue had a very good fish & chip shop next door, supper at the venue then off to the B&B for a good rest

[PaulRhB]

Warley only starts early to manage the NEC crowd flows, it’s not their choice as such.

What next 24hr opening?

 

Ok so show times are limited by a reasonable day for some of the more local exhibitors to get there and set up and go home. Most average size clubs can only afford a few staying over because of the cost of accommodation.

Does selling tickets to the queue get people expecting to get in before the advertised start time? Probably for a vocal minority, personally when I have ended up in a queue I’m happy to wait. Usually I aim to arrive just after opening but on longer trips you can get there a bit early so if it’s raining, cold, etc I will look to wait where there is shelter, car, station etc.

If you turn up before advertised times I don’t think it’s unreasonable to take part in our national specialty, queueing, and ponder that it was your choice to be there not anyone else’s. Where do we stop demanding more and trying to compare a volunteer run show to commercial enterprises? Many big commercial shows, New Forest Show, Football, motorsport and Concerts are notorious for queues and ‘poor’ queue management on social media.

How do you stagger arrivals though when there’s a lot to see and people travel long distances so want to get value for money?

There’s just no way to do it that pleases everyone, so acceptance of queues is the only real answer. They are one off events with unusual demand. Big stadiums can design systems for that, a local hall or school isn’t going to be designed with it in mind.

[hayfield]

Clive

 

In an earlier post I agreed with you and others that start times must be fixed so that both layout operators and traders have time to set up. That does not mean that either advanced tickets and or selling the tickets prior to opening time cannot be done, and this is what the OP was talking about

 

I repeat my self at Railex and Scaleforum tickets could be bought early and the customers could then go to the cafe or join the queue, this does depend on the logistics at the show, but what's the problem if there are stewards available for said stewards walking along the line and selling tickets and programs. Two different topics.  I think Scaleforum this year allowed early entry on the Saturday ?

[Hobby]

The original request (I have to say I read it more as a "demand") was that tickets be sold prior to opening and people let in 5 mins early and if they didn't it was somehow "bad customer service", sorry but I don't see it that way. It is the person's choice to turn up early, not the show's organisers. I'd refer you back to my earlier post, you wouldn't get a pub setting up pints before opening time so why should we have to. "The customer is NOT always right" to correct a bad quote especially when they are asking or demanding something that is not advertised - in this case service before opening time. 

 

If there are staff available then perhaps it can be done but no-one should turn up and expect it... If you don't want to queue then turn up 10 minutes after opening...

Edited November 14, 2018 by Hobby

[Clive Mortimore]

OK if every show where a queue forms was to sell them their tickets while waiting......how long before we get a thread titled "I was sold my ticket but still had to wait half an hour. Why couldn't they let us in". There will be exhibition manager scared his show will be seen in bad light on RMweb  who would and be running around the layouts "Quick, hurry up and finish setting up as we are letting them in early".

 

Sorry if that was to happen I would start to pack up....let them in early I am going home early.

 

It is bad enough at the end of day two when the exhibitors out number the visitors, so you start tidying up and the exhibition manager tells you to stop as it is not closed and if you carry on you will never be invited again. I reminded on exhibition manager that when he reinvited me.

Edited November 14, 2018 by Clive Mortimore

[LNERandBR]

Its all very simple in my mind.

 

If you arrive before opening then expect to wait in a queue for opening time to then buy your ticket.

If the show is selling tickets to the queue before opening time then all good. However that is the exception rarther then the rule.

 

If you don't want to queue then arrive after opening time so you can get your ticket and walk straight in.

[hayfield]

OK if every show where a queue forms was to sell them their tickets while waiting......how long before we get a thread titled "I was sold my ticket but still had to wait half an hour. Why couldn't they let us in". There will be exhibition manager scared his show will bee seen in bad light on RMweb  who would and be running around the layouts "Quick, hurry up and finish setting up as we are letting them in early".

 

Sorry if that was to happen I would start to pack up....let them in early I am going home early.

 

It is bad enough at the end of day two when the exhibitors out number the visitors, so you start tidying up and the exhibition manager tells you to stop as it is not closed and if you carry on you will never be invited again. I reminded on exhibition manager that when he reinvited me.

 

 

Clive totally agree with you, open at the advertised time, not 5 mins early or 5 mins late. However if the visitors can be accomodated in the warm prior to opening time then that's a plus, the exception is always if refreshments can accommodate those who arrive early without compromising the viewing area, a great way to top up club funds

[Chris M]

Large exhibitions will of course do what the professionals in charge of the venue tell them to. It’s about managing crowds and keeping everyone safe and this is best left to those who do it for a living.

[Steamport Southport]

The original request (I have to say I read it more as a "demand") was that tickets be sold prior to opening and people let in 5 mins early and if they didn't it was somehow "bad customer service", sorry but I don't see it that way. It is the person's choice to turn up early, not the show's organisers. I'd refer you back to my earlier post, you wouldn't get a pub setting up pints before opening time so why should we have to. "The customer is NOT always right" to correct a bad quote especially when they are asking or demanding something that is not advertised - in this case service before opening time. 

 

If there are staff available then perhaps it can be done but no-one should turn up and expect it... If you don't want to queue then turn up 10 minutes after opening...

 

It depends on where you drink...

 

Quite a few pubs I know will let regulars in before opening time.

 

It's the old joke "We're not open yet, but would you like one while you wait"

 

 

 

Jason

[Clive Mortimore]

Clive totally agree with you, open at the advertised time, not 5 mins early or 5 mins late. However if the visitors can be accomodated in the warm prior to opening time then that's a plus, the exception is always if refreshments can accommodate those who arrive early without compromising the viewing area, a great way to top up club funds

Get up early, have breakfast, 2 hour drive, hour and a bit to set up, quick cuppa before the show opens. Join the queue of visitors who have been let in to have a cuppa before the show starts. Sounds great, until you realise there are no operators at the start of the show.

[Colin_McLeod]

The OP never suggested letting customers in early. He suggested selling tickets to the queue so that people could actually go in the moment the exhibition opens.

 

 

 

If I buy a ticket days, weeks or even months in advance for a concert I don't expect to get in early just because I already have my ticket.

 

Why can't people read the OP properly.

Edited November 14, 2018 by Colin_McLeod

[Pacific231G]

OK if every show where a queue forms was to sell them their tickets while waiting......how long before we get a thread titled "I was sold my ticket but still had to wait half an hour. Why couldn't they let us in". There will be exhibition manager scared his show will be seen in bad light on RMweb  who would and be running around the layouts "Quick, hurry up and finish setting up as we are letting them in early".

 

Sorry if that was to happen I would start to pack up....let them in early I am going home early.

 

It is bad enough at the end of day two when the exhibitors out number the visitors, so you start tidying up and the exhibition manager tells you to stop as it is not closed and if you carry on you will never be invited again. I reminded on exhibition manager that when he reinvited me.

Exhibition managers who think they're doing layout owners a great favour by allowing them the privilege of being part of the Barchester MRC annual exhibtion need a reality check. Towards the end of the day is though often a good time to look at layouts when theyre not surrounded by an admiring crowd. .

 

When I'm a visitor I hate it when stands- it tends to be traders rather than layout owners- are being dismantled half an hour before closing time and when operating I always keep trains running until the actual close, I see nothing wrong in the layout owner starting to pack the stock away and gradually run down what's on the layout so long as there's enough left for the operator to play with. The final goods train tends to be clearing the yard to the fiddle yard but that can be done in a railwaylike manner and If the very last train out is an autorail so be it. 

Edited November 14, 2018 by Pacific231G

[Steamport Southport]

The OP never suggested letting customers in early. He suggested selling tickets to the queue so that people could actually go in the moment the exhibition opens.

 

 

 

If I buy a ticket days, weeks or even months in advance for a concert I don't expect to get in early just because I already have my ticket.

 

Why can't people read the OP properly.

 

Erm

 

Selkent, on 07 Nov 2018 - 07:44, said:

The winter months are on us and it is no fun waiting outside in the cold, so maybe even if there is a bit of a queue, let us in 5 mins early. Rant over.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jason

[Phil Parker]

Does selling tickets to the queue get people expecting to get in before the advertised start time? Probably for a vocal minority, personally when I have ended up in a queue I’m happy to wait. Usually I aim to arrive just after opening but on longer trips you can get there a bit early so if it’s raining, cold, etc I will look to wait where there is shelter, car, station etc.

 

At the recent NEC classic car show, I had the misfortune to be stuck in the large queue next to a bloke who took exception to the security staff moving the crowd to the side of the aisle to let people get past. He then started shouting that we should be let in NOW! Ignoring the fact we were all there 15 minutes before the advertised opening time. 

 

I've been that person managing the crowd. Trust me, it looks very different when you are responsible for the safety of people you'd happily let drown/burn/be eaten by a lion.

[Phil Parker]

 

"Surely the idea of advance tickets is so you don't have to queue, not to get in early."

 

 

It depends how cynical you are. The beauty of selling advanced tickets is the show gets some early, non-refundable cash. A tiny number of people will unexpectedly not be able to make it to the event, but you've still got their money. Gift cards for shops work a similar way. 

 

To sell more advanced tickets, you let people in early so they can bag the BARGAINZZZZZ!!!!!

 

[Rivercider]

Although I have attended between 8 and 12 shows a year over the past 10 years I have no idea how often there is a queue before opening time. Last month for the first time I did arrive early and joined a queue of 20 to 30 that was promptly dealt with after opening time. 

I can see that this is not a 'one size fits all' solution, as it would be unfair to compare a large regional or national show, who might have greater resources, with a local club show where there is only a small membership. Also at some venues the queue will be inside, or under cover anyway.

 

If a large show regularly has queues before opening each year then I can see that perhaps some thought could be given to supporting the door staff (at opening time) to clear the queue promptly.  However I understand it would be unrealistic for a smaller local club show with a small membership to be able to do this.

 

From my point of view if I realised that at most exhibitions there was likely to be a queue at opening time then I would simply aim to arrive 15 minutes later,

or be prepared put up with a little delay, quite simple really.

 

cheers

[pete55]

The OP never suggested letting customers in early. He suggested selling tickets to the queue so that people could actually go in the moment the exhibition opens.

 

 

 

If I buy a ticket days, weeks or even months in advance for a concert I don't expect to get in early just because I already have my ticket.

 

Why can't people read the OP properly.

 

My reading of the OP is quite the opposite. He says...

 

"The winter months are on us and it is no fun waiting outside in the cold, so maybe even if there is a bit of a queue, let us in 5 mins early.           

 

Is that not asking to be let in early?

[Selkent]

I wrote origional post and was not asking to be let in way early, just a  few minutes before opening time if long queues or come down line and sell tickets so at least the first 20 through the door on opening.   I myself run 3 shows for our group each year and we insure like many with magnets for our exhibition insurance.    Had a look at policy and no where does it state the opening or closing time, only setting up from which you enter a date and breaking down time again entering a date.  Checked with the venue also and they just have it as a booking from 7.30am to 5pm on the day and a few hours the night before.  The venue we use has 36 hire venues around the UK, so I think they know what they are doing.   

 

Also out of interest I checked the insurance for the theatre I own and again, nothing about opening times and public access, in fact as a theatre we advertise the actual show start time, not the time audience allowed into the venue, so not sure if maybe some exhibition managers being a little over zelous and over reading into insurance cover rules.

 

On our Bexleytheath show we pre sale about 80 / 100 tickets before the event and have a general public opening time of 10am and a pre ticket holder entry of 9.45am and those waiting till 10am we go along line and sell tickets.   We don't have everyone turning up then, but still a good 20 or so pre ticket holders.  If places like the Warley venue have rules about no public access until the allocated time, that is a odd stipulation on their insurance as if considered a construction site, all persons will need to be in hi vis, wear steel toe boots and sign in on arrival and defo no pre trading before opening time to other exhibitors.  It would also mean that every van on arrival on the site, which brings most of the layouts and traders must have a back man positioned when reversing into or out of a space, which is a requirement for every commercial based van on any construction site.  Only time we have to stipulate an opening time is at our Sevenoaks Model Railway show and that is because we sell booze and it is a licencing requirement. 

 

I can't see also the security risk of having cash stolen going down a line, as one person stated, don't think many toerags would be up that early or be anywhere  near a model rail show and just as much chance of someone just nicking the cash box at the entry and doing a runner.

 

Totally agree that at busy times like opening times, resources should be put on the door to get people in quickly.

 

Not every show is going to have a queue, I understand that, but those that know they get queues at the start, should really make entry as easy and as quick as possible. From posts I see some already do, while others stick to the minute before anyone sets through the door.   If a layout isnt ready at 10am, it wont be ready at 2 mins past or 2 mins to the hour.  2 mins early should get about 10 at least in and a shorter queue. 

Edited November 14, 2018 by Selkent

[LNERandBR]

The end of the day is a different kettle of fish. I'm a firm believer that where possible something should be running on a layout at all times during opening hours. (Unexpected issues aside)

 

With my own layouts I try to live up to this philosophy. Even when my fellow operators are complaining that its Sunday with 5 mins to go and there's no public in the hall and eveyone else is already packing away!

 

The end of the day is when exhibitors get chance to look around.