two tone green Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 And what is it you are trying to say ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryHN Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Hello, Hi all this is the email from Hattons, Thought it would give you all more detail on how they are going to be coupled together. This item, which you can see at http://www.ehattons.com/StockDetail.aspx?SID=21227 is due into stock at the end of Nov or early Dec, and Bachmann have released some notes on it, which we thought would be of interest to people who had placed an order - The notes are With many consumers expecting a 4 CEP for Christmas, our design department wishes to inform retailers that these units will need to be coupled in a certain way to operate and not invalidate warranties. As the whole unit is powered throughout, it is imperative that consumers read the instructions carefully before coupling the units prior to running them on any layout. The 4 CEP needs to be connected in the correct sequence otherwise the electrical polarity that drives the EMU can be affected. Full instructions will be enclosed with each model, clearly showing the correct method of assembly. We hope that this information is Richard Davies Souding good looks like it will have lots of pickups. Gary Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium zarniwhoop Posted October 23, 2009 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 23, 2009 I just hope that the supplied couplings will let it couple as close as with kadee #19s. Meanwhile, here's hoping that some will still be available after I've evaluated the one I've ordered. ??en Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillinghamgus Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 there are pics of the standard all over blue CEP from ModelZone web site, which show long flat couplers that look like they go far into the unit. I don't have a reason to by this but a blue and a blue grey pair will be bought just to make sure other SR units get built come on 4CIG/VEP and 4TC please Bachmann. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Bel Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Hi All, Saw the unit at the Peterborough show. Very nice indeed. Asked if Bachmann would be producing spares such as the underframes and bogies. This quite reasonable question ( I thought) was met with a quite rude rebuff from the Bachmann representative. He explained that they didn't know what the factory would be sending out!! and that they wouldn't be producing them anyway. I think the bogies would sell well as there are quite a lot of model EMU's/DEMU's running around on BR1's. I also think that the powered underframe sold seperately would justify it's production as it could be used under quite a few units. Cheers, Ian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Hi All, Saw the unit at the Peterborough show. Very nice indeed. Asked if Bachmann would be producing spares such as the underframes and bogies. This quite reasonable question ( I thought) was met with a quite rude rebuff from the Bachmann representative. He explained that they didn't know what the factory would be sending out!! and that they wouldn't be producing them anyway. I think the bogies would sell well as there are quite a lot of model EMU's/DEMU's running around on BR1's. I also think that the powered underframe sold seperately would justify it's production as it could be used under quite a few units. Cheers, Ian. That's a d**n shame. What a response ? ?. If that's the case, Ian, it's a market they should have considered. I think they may have shot themselves in the foot there. Replica Railways have stated, in the past, that they will be offering their MLV motorised chassis as a separate component, but when this will be available, is anybody's guess. Regards, Frank. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Bel Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Hi Frank, Replica were also at Peterborough and I purchased quite a lot from them. I asked about the MLV and in complete contrast to Bachmann, I got a nice freindly answer which said that the chassis was ready to go to China for producing. Again no timescale was set but it's good to see some progress. I too believe Bachmann have shot themselves in the foot, as there are plenty of 3rd rail/DEMU modellers who would buy the bogies at least. I will need four pairs for my 6S for starters!! I am sorry if this is a little off topic. Cheers, Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redditch 34 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Hi Frank, Replica were also at Peterborough and I purchased quite a lot from them. I asked about the MLV and in complete contrast to Bachmann, I got a nice freindly answer which said that the chassis was ready to go to China for producing. Again no timescale was set but it's good to see some progress. I too believe Bachmann have shot themselves in the foot, as there are plenty of 3rd rail/DEMU modellers who would buy the bogies at least. I will need four pairs for my 6S for starters!! I am sorry if this is a little off topic. Cheers, Ian All people need to remember the number of people who are going to want a chasis is going to be small compared to those who are going to buy the complete model and as we all hope that there are more third rail units to folow from Bachmann why shoot yourself in the foot by selling people chasis to put other people bodies on when in future you can sell them another complete unit. People should be glad that they are going to be able to buy a very good third rail unit ready to run at last. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 All people need to remember the number of people who are going to want a chasis is going to be small compared to those who are going to buy the complete model and as we all hope that there are more third rail units to folow from Bachmann why shoot yourself in the foot by selling people chasis to put other people bodies on when in future you can sell them another complete unit. People should be glad that they are going to be able to buy a very good third rail unit ready to run at last. Hi Redditch 34. What I would like to ask is , If Replica (quite a small company by comparison) are prepared to offer a separate motorised chassis, why not Bachmann ?. They already provide the same for several steam locos in their range, plus coach bogies, wheels, couplings etc. I'm sure many kit / scratch builders have made good use of these, including the r-t-r modellers. especially me. I hear what you're saying, but I think Bachmann have missed a chance here, to provide something extra for modellers of BR EMUs/DEMUs to play with, beit BR(S), BR(M), BR(E & NE), or BR(Sc). Regards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
samkiller42 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 That looks very smart, shame i've lost interest in UK modeling Sam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium cctransuk Posted October 28, 2009 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 28, 2009 What I would like to ask is , If Replica (quite a small company by comparison) are prepared to offer a separate motorised chassis, why not Bachmann ?. They already provide the same for several steam locos in their range, plus coach bogies, wheels, couplings etc. Is the Replica MLV actually available yet as a complete RTR model? It seems to me that I've been reading for years about parts for this long-promised model being available, but I haven't yet seen a report of the actual finsihed article being on general sale? If Bachmann took so long to develop a single new model there'd rightly be an outcry. Could the sale of parts of the Replica MLV be a crafty way of financing the further development of the model? Moreover, will there be any market left for that model when all the eager purchasers of the 'bits' have completed their MLVs in other ways? Bachmann sell chassis from their older generation models - components which have probably been gathering dust on their warehouse shelves for years. The number of models for which chassis are available is rapidly reducing and I can confidently predict that there'll be no more when they've all gone. Try buying a chassis from Bachmann for any of their more recent productions - it just isn't financially viable for them to offer them. When you buy a complete model you're paying a very small proportion of the cost for the actual physical materials from which it is made. The vast majority of the cost is for the research, development, tool-making, production labour costs, packing, shipping from China, promotion costs and manufacturer's and retailer's profit. By simply omitting a few pence worth of plastic body, but having to provide custom packaging for the chassis alone, there is probably no saving to Bachmann whatsoever. Face it; in these days of one-off batches shipped over in fixed numbers from China there is no scope for accommodating those who wish to save money when using the model for purposes other than those which the manufacturer intended. The days when someone could nip down to the parts bin at Margate and pop a few spare parts in the post for a nominal charge in the name of customer goodwill vanished long ago. The answer? Buy the complete model and sell the unwanted parts on E-bay. Many members of this list do exactly that and report that they make good money in the process. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Is the Replica MLV actually available yet as a complete RTR model? It seems to me that I've been reading for years about parts for this long-promised model being available, but I haven't yet seen a report of the actual finsihed article being on general sale? At Peterborough the other week they were still just selling bits and not the finished product. I think they had bodies, glazing and underframe components (but not the chassis) on sale. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 That model looks stunning - not my period or region (though it would have run, I'd have thought, somewhere in my neck of the woods, Dartford Via Sidcup line at some point), but what a model! Late November early December, huh? Very strange, considering what's been sitting in the warehouse for many months now... And what is it you are trying to say ? I'd just like to thank the both of you for helping me learn how to use the multi-quote post system. And just to add - Miss Prism is clearly hinting that the models have been sitting in the warehouse for many months. Is there any truth in that, or is that pure speculation on your part? EDIT: Actually, on further reflection I'm not sure I care whether its speculation or not. The release date is set so the location of the models at this time is immaterial. Whichever modellers end up buying it, it will have been worth the wait indeed, by the looks of things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gelboy45 Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Simierski-UK wrote: "That model looks stunning - not my period or region (though it would have run, I'd have thought, somewhere in my neck of the woods, Dartford Via Sidcup line at some point), but what a model!" The front four cars of a CX-Ramsgate late afternoon commuter service during 1963 via Woolwich and Dartford used to be a 4-Cep. I know as I rode in it to Dartford. I can't remember the exact time, probably after 6-ish. All the other sets were 2 Haps or 4 Epbs. Gerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 When you buy a complete model you're paying a very small proportion of the cost for the actual physical materials from which it is made. The vast majority of the cost is for the research, development, tool-making, production labour costs, packing, shipping from China, promotion costs and manufacturer's and retailer's profit. By simply omitting a few pence worth of plastic body, but having to provide custom packaging for the chassis alone, there is probably no saving to Bachmann whatsoever. Face it; in these days of one-off batches shipped over in fixed numbers from China there is no scope for accommodating those who wish to save money when using the model for purposes other than those which the manufacturer intended. The days when someone could nip down to the parts bin at Margate and pop a few spare parts in the post for a nominal charge in the name of customer goodwill vanished long ago. The answer? Buy the complete model and sell the unwanted parts on E-bay. Many members of this list do exactly that and report that they make good money in the process. Regards, John Isherwood. Even more off Topic OK. The point I'm trying to make here, is that, we're All in this hobby together. along with the 'Big Boys' and All rely on, apart from their own, some one else's research. Beit knowledge and advice, photos, drawings, kits, parts, etc.. Unless you're prepared to do it all on your own ?. Bachmann, in the past, have also relied on, to some extent, some one else's research and products, namely kits and possibly drawings, to promote their own range. Just ask, I think it's Charlie at DC Kits (4-CEP) and those at DJH (Std 4Mt. 2-6-4T etc.) who have, recently, had to consolidate (reduce) their own production. It would have been good to read in Ian's Peterborough Show report that , instead of the 'rebuff' he received from his enquiry, he was given a reason and rundown as to 'why', and a recognition to others in the 'trade'. I'm sure that if Bachmann had given a hint even, that a motorised chassis of a Mk.1 EMU was being 'considered', it would have brought a new enthusiasm to DC Kits and Southern Pride, at least. Maybe they're waiting to see how well the response to Replica's product goes, or maybe they're leaving it all to them. Regards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gelboy45 Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Oops. Has anyone else noticed, and hopefully told Bachmann, that the yellow warning panel on the painted sample reaches too high within the gangway door? I'm, not normally such a nitpicker but it looks quite wrong and it is on the FRONT. In hope..... Gerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
10800 Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Oops. Has anyone else noticed, and hopefully told Bachmann, that the yellow warning panel on the painted sample reaches too high within the gangway door? Really? What photos of the prototype are you looking at that lead you to that conclusion? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gelboy45 Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Yes REALLY. Although photos are scarce there is one on page 26 of 'Southern Electric Multiple Units 1948-1983' by Colin J. Marsden and another on page 84 of 'A Southern Electric Album' by Michael Welch. Photos of all blue units with warning panels show that they do reach higher but are also painted to include around the inside of the gangway connection. Non gangwayed units did have panels that were wider. I had thought my memory was playing tricks but it is quite noticeable. Remember, don't shoot the messenger... Gerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 That model looks stunning - not my period or region (though it would have run, I'd have thought, somewhere in my neck of the woods, Dartford Via Sidcup line at some point), but what a model! I'd just like to thank the both of you for helping me learn how to use the multi-quote post system. And just to add - Miss Prism is clearly hinting that the models have been sitting in the warehouse for many months. Is there any truth in that, or is that pure speculation on your part? EDIT: Actually, on further reflection I'm not sure I care whether its speculation or not. The release date is set so the location of the models at this time is immaterial. Whichever modellers end up buying it, it will have been worth the wait indeed, by the looks of things. I used to commute regularly from Gillingham to Victoria in 4-CEP's and pretty often got diverted "Dartford via Sidcup" when the mainline had problems so you have no problems justifying one of these Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
10800 Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Yes REALLY. Although photos are scarce there is one on page 26 of 'Southern Electric Multiple Units 1948-1983' by Colin J. Marsden and another on page 84 of 'A Southern Electric Album' by Michael Welch. OK, I've got both of those books and a few more. I'll grant you that the first you mention does have a shorter panel than any other photo I've seen on a green CEP. The second is inconclusive because of shadow, but doesn't look the same as the first one to me. However, all the other photos I've found this evening suggest to me that Bachmann have got it right in general (I don't know how many other instances were like 7200 as in the Marsden book): 'Southern Electric Album' by Michael Welch (which you quoted) - 7182 on p69; 7194 on p73. 'Southern EMUs in Colour' by John Morgan - 7001 on p24 (I know it's a BEP but the motor coach is the same). 'Slam Doors on the Southern' by Michael Welch - 7001 (again) on p52. 'The Southern Electric Story' by Michael Baker - 7182 on p59. Nearly all the instances I've seen of BEPs, BIGs and CIGs in green with yellow panels also have the same height of panel. Interestingly, in 'First Generation Southern EMUs' by Kevin Robertson there is a photo of 4BIG 7301 on delivery with a shorter panel on p66, but the same unit in 1965/6 with a 'regular' panel on p67. When they go all blue (and including VEPs, REPs and TCs here) they are also mostly 'regular' panels with the occasional shorter panel, e.g. 7106 on p57 of 'Slam Doors on the Southern'. So the conclusion I see is that in most cases the Bachmann rendition is correct, but there is a minority where there is a slightly shorter panel. Not something to justify running to Bachmann about, but certainly another example of needing to choose your prototype carefully based on an actual photograph at the time you are modelling. Interesting observation though, and I've learnt something new this evening . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I have been asked to post this rebuttal in the thread Posted 23 October 2009 - 20:02 Quote "Miss Prism" Late November early December, huh? Very strange, considering what's been sitting in the warehouse for many months now... Unquote Response from Bachmann "This is not so, as the 4CEP's are currently on the production line and shipping is due to take place in the middle of this month (NOVEMBER).. No business can afford to sit on stock for which they have orders!". Dennis Lovett Public Relations Manager Bachmann Europe Plc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I am pleased to see Dennis Lovett's clarification on this matter. It seems I drew a completely incorrect conclusion from a discussion with Bachmann on the effects of import quotas and the contents of the bonded section of its warehouse at its open day earlier this year. I was obviously mistaken. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennyboy Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I am pleased to see Dennis Lovett's clarification on this matter. It seems I drew a completely incorrect conclusion from a discussion with Bachmann on the effects of import quotas and the contents of the bonded section of its warehouse at its open day earlier this year. I was obviously mistaken. Since when have we had import quotas for model railway goods or any manufactured goods for that matter? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
revengeofthecat Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Since when have we had import quotas for model railway goods or any manufactured goods for that matter? Seriously, from China (and other places) there are import quotas! Designed to "protect" EU manufacturers... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucazone Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 ...and when was it they said they would shrink them down for us N-Guage folk? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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