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Bachmann Desiro's





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#1 smg201

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 16:35

Good Afternoon.

Apologise if I am incorrectly read on this subject, but there does not seem much discussed on the upcoming Bachmann Desiro Class 350. Now for one I am not interested in London Midland (its a poor copy of Southern liveries), but I have strangely become to like the Desiro product over the years and I am glad to see it taking model form.

I have a few questions and discussions I would like to put out there.

Firstly, are people interested in the upcoming Bachmann Class 350's as I haven’t seen anything discussed about the release since they were announced. I personally think Bachmann chose the wrong Desiro to release, a Class 450/444 would of been ideal. (More scope to run with Class 73, CEP, VEP, SWT 159, 373).

This leads me nicely onto my Second question. Do people feel we shall see the Class 450 become a reality as a limited edition or mainstream release. I would buy two instantly!

Lastly, I find it odd, I don’t know does anyone else, that unlike the Bachmann Class 150/1/2 release a few years ago where both corridor and non-corridor versions were released, the Desiro model comes in three of the same instead to appealing to a wider market in the form of 350, 360, 450, 444 and 185s. I'd love a Class 185 for three!

I wonder will the silence around the Desiro model put off any future possibilities of model Electrostars, say from Hornby. (Bachmann did the CEP, Hornby did the VEP, Bachmann did the Desiro, Hornby did the ;) )

I would love to know peoples thoughts.




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#2 Pixie

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 16:41

Firstly, are people interested in the upcoming Bachmann Class 350's as I haven’t seen anything discussed about the release since they were announced. I personally think Bachmann chose the wrong Desiro to release, a Class 450/444 would of been ideal. (More scope to run with Class 73, CEP, VEP, SWT 159, 373).


I'd be surprised if the 350 didn't morph into a 450 - much in the same way the 57 became the 47. The 444 might be less likely as the coaches are longer IIRC.

Pix

#3 PaulRhB

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 16:58

Hopefully the SWT version will be tried but the SWT liveried 159's were slow sellers which is why we haven't seen any more, (that's from conversations with someone at Bachmann and a shop). I had no problems aquiring a fleet ages after they were released. I suspect they may be wary of the SWT livery as a result.
With the difference in the coaches between the SWT liveries I suppose that make the 444 unlikely as it would require a complete retool. I shall watch with interest and the VEPs coming out too means a transition era layout would be possible for variety.

#4 Redkiterail

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 17:14

Firstly there is no preproduction test models or shots so there is not much to talk about
second the 350 is on the WCML like the class 85 even though not the same timeframe
Thridy 450, 360 are doable the 185 and 444 require to much new tooling to be cost effective.
Fourthly who imangine we be getting OHLE EMU ready to run

#5 Ian Fisher

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 17:17

I guess the operation of the 350's is a bit wider than some of the other desiro family.

I think depsite not actually needing one for a layout I am building or want to build I may get one just cos I can!

Looking forward to it

Ian

#6 jonathan452

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 17:31

I guess the operation of the 350's is a bit wider than some of the other desiro family.

Ian


Including East Croydon for a while last year. (The third rail shoes had to be put back on some of the first batch for this one.)

#7 reevesthecat

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 17:33

To answer one of your questions I can't wait for this model ,I have wanted a rtr 25kv emu for years. I will be buying (at least one) of the first batch with more depending on liveries released.
cheers
mark

#8 Charlie

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 18:55

I did e-mail Bachmann about the 350 becoming the 444/450 and they replied. I'll have a hunt to see if i can find it for you.<BR><BR>Edit: No luck, basically there are no plans at present though one would assume that with enough urging they'd be more likely to consider it. Just look at the GWR ROD. I know I'd get one of each in SWT livery :)

#9 Cardiff Bluebird

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 20:56

I have the unlucky pleasure of working on these horrid trains every working day!. BUT I will be buying in Silverlink Grey/Blue colours. I suspect should this model sell well the 450 would be considered, as for the 360/1 & 360/2 plus the 444 there is very little chance as a full retool for the 444 and a new front end for the 360's would be required.


Im surprised they didnt do the 450 first what with the interest in the 3rd scene since the CEP was released. With regards to the ADtranz/Bombardier Electrostars I think Bachmann would be best placed for a model already having the basic tooling for the Turbostar units. However the only real direct electric version the 357 IIRC longer then the 170 vehicles. The same problem a new front end and innner vehicles may see the 375/377 units kicked into the long grass. But saying that a 172 model ???? LOROL and Chiltern have the same build but LM have a end door version on order.


Interesting times ahead, seeing as most if not all the feasible model locomotives have been made/announced DMU/EMU area is the next big showground.


Bluebird.

#10 Jim Martin

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 21:17

... depending on liveries released.


My money's on London Midland grey/green and Silverlink/Central grey/blue ;)

Jim

#11 Ron Ron Ron

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 21:57

The 350 and 450 are essentially the same, as the first batch of 350's (350/1) were actually an order for SWT that was diverted to Silverlink (now LM).
The modular nature of the real prototype trains means that conversion is relatively easy and nearly everything on the bodyshell is in place for similar change in model form.
I must admit I'm hoping that the 450 will be next and will readily buy 4 or 5 sets, but we'll just have to wait and see.

The 444 and 185 require two completely different toolings as they are both different from every other type (car length and doors etc). There's no natural follow on from the 350 with either of these types, so any decision to make them will be just the same as for any other new design.

As pointed out already, the 360 needs different ends, but I'm not sure how similar the rest of the body is to the 350 and 450 ?

Now we have the 380, no doubt our northern friends will want to add that one to the wish list too?



The Electrostar is another matter. Just because Bachmann does the Turbostar, it will surely have no bearing on a decision to do the Electrostar as they are very different.
The car lengths are quite different and so are the ends.
The various Electrostars are also quite different from one another too and would require several body tools if the whole range were to be attempted.

If Hornby do the Electrostar, I suspect their South Eastern bias would favour the 375, which would open the possibility of the 377.
However the 376, 378 and 379 are all quite different from each other as well as being different to the 375 and 377.


If it were down to me Posted Image, I'd have the 450, 444 and 377. Posted Image

#12 St. Simon

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 21:59

Electrostars, say from Hornby. (Bachmann did the CEP, Hornby did the VEP, Bachmann did the Desiro, Hornby did the ;) )


Hi,

I doubt Hornby will do the Electrostar, Bachmann are in a stronger position to produce the Electrostar, they've already got the basic bodyshell.

Simon

#13 Ron Ron Ron

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 22:02

......Bachmann are in a stronger position to produce the Electrostar, they've already got the basic bodyshell.

Apparently not Simon.
As the bodyshell length, door distances, windows etc are all different, it will mean starting from scratch as if it were a completely different model.
AIUI it matters not that the body profile or cross section is the same.

#14 Pete the Elaner

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 22:54

I personally think Bachmann chose the wrong Desiro to release, a Class 450/444 would of been ideal.


I disagree. There are more EMUs than just those on the Southern.
DC modellers have had the 465, 4-CEP & will soon have the 4-VEP & 2-EPB. 450/444 would be filling a market when there is a gaping great hole elsewhere.
AC Electric modellers have never had a RTR unit before. Everyday units like this are the staple diet of a suburban line & up until now not catered for at all.
With the exception of Marylebone, ALL the lines out of N London are electrified with OLE so it is about time an AC unit is available.
It also fits in nicely with catenary recently released by Dapol & due from Peco.

Better still, the 350/1 is a dual-voltage unit so why not run it on 3rd rail if that's what you model?

It's a great choice & I hope it sells very well.

#15 298

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 23:14

AC Electric modellers have never had a RTR unit before. Everyday units like this are the staple diet of a suburban line & up until now not catered for at all.


Do the Hornby Javelin & Pendolino count...? Perhaps Bachmann figured out the tooling changes and manufacturing procedures required will dictate a 350 is produced before a 450, in the same way the 57 preceeded the 47. It's just a theory.

#16 31A Driver

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Posted 20 November 2010 - 01:07

Hi,

I doubt Hornby will do the Electrostar, Bachmann are in a stronger position to produce the Electrostar, they've already got the basic bodyshell.

Simon



Have a look at James Makins 'Wells Green' website to see the work involved converting a Turbostar to an Electrostar

Andy

#17 Ron Ron Ron

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Posted 20 November 2010 - 01:18

I disagree. There are more EMUs than just those on the Southern.

Of course, but the SWT Desiro fleet is about 3 times larger than the LM 350 fleet. Posted Image
Nontheless, I think the 350 is an excellent choice, covering a wide area on and around the WCML, from London to the NW of England.
Let's hope the 450 will follow.


DC modellers have had the 465, 4-CEP & will soon have the 4-VEP & 2-EPB. 450/444 would be filling a market when there is a gaping great hole elsewhere.

There's no scope for the 465 and 450/444 to run together. They cover different parts of the South in different franchise areas (there's a whole franchise area between them too) and i don't think there is much, if any overlap.
Also, 2-EPB's are a completely different era.
Still I'm all for more AC and DC EMU's, and more DMU's....1st, 2nd and 3rd generation. There's a yawning gap for all of them. Posted Image




#18 Lord Summerisle

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 23:45

There's no scope for the 465 and 450/444 to run together. They cover different parts of the South in different franchise areas (there's a whole franchise area between them too) and i don't think there is much, if any overlap.


Whilst I can't think of anywhere where they share the track the 465's certainly used to run into Victoria (I believe they still do), and passed over the tracks used by the 444/450 to get to Waterloo at Queenstown road. So there would certainly be some scope for operating them on the same layout with a bit of license.

#19 Oldfield_Park

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Posted 22 November 2010 - 13:14

I'm not surprised that Bachmann chose to produce the LM 350. More chance of selling something that complements a lot of existing stock. They run alongside Pendolinos/Virgin Voyagers on every route they work, and from New Street upwards you could run one alongside any Central Trains/ATW/AXC/Northern/EMT stock you may happen to have. Aside from the absence of a 323 you could now do a pretty accurate present-day interpetation of anywhere from B'ham to Stoke-on-Trent and Liverpool. You could certainly do Crewe...B)

A wise move on their part methinks.
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#20 CovDriver

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Posted 23 November 2010 - 05:35

As I also currently work on these great units the Class 350's they are so easy to work with until they generate faults such as yesterday morning as soon as we reached about 70mph the brakes would go into emergency !!
I can confirm that they are exactly the same as the class 450's some of the units in particular 350234 even has alot of 450 interior parts such as handrails etc as this was the last unit to be delivered it was used a xmas tree to supply parts for the rest of the fleet before arriving in the uk.
The underframe parts are all identical even the PTS coach has the well in the roof for a pantograph !!
so come on Bachmann can't wait for the dezzy's to arrive i might have to invest in a couple of units ?

#21 Electrostar

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Posted 23 November 2010 - 08:26

If it's not in Bachmann's long-term plans then perhaps a third-party retailer like Modelzone might commission the conversion to the 450.

#22 Cardiff Bluebird

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Posted 23 November 2010 - 14:50

As I also currently work on these great units the Class 350's they are so easy to work with until they generate faults such as yesterday morning as soon as we reached about 70mph the brakes would go into emergency !!
I can confirm that they are exactly the same as the class 450's some of the units in particular 350234 even has alot of 450 interior parts such as handrails etc as this was the last unit to be delivered it was used a xmas tree to supply parts for the rest of the fleet before arriving in the uk.
The underframe parts are all identical even the PTS coach has the well in the roof for a pantograph !!
so come on Bachmann can't wait for the dezzy's to arrive i might have to invest in a couple of units ?


A fellow London Midland Imate Hello !

Bluebird.

#23 Ian Fisher

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Posted 23 November 2010 - 17:26

What a shame your statement is tho 390, 350 390, 66, 390, 220 66, 92.

But what a model it could make! trains running and just passing by and throw in the recent intermodal releases...Crewe it is! cracking virtual model taking shape in my head!:( :huh:

Ian

I'm not surprised that Bachmann chose to produce the LM 350. More chance of selling something that complements a lot of existing stock. They run alongside Pendolinos/Virgin Voyagers on every route they work, and from New Street upwards you could run one alongside any Central Trains/ATW/AXC/Northern/EMT stock you may happen to have. Aside from the absence of a 323 you could now do a pretty accurate present-day interpetation of anywhere from B'ham to Stoke-on-Trent and Liverpool. You could certainly do Crewe...B)

A wise move on their part methinks.



#24 beast66606

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Posted 23 November 2010 - 17:40

What a shame your statement is tho 390, 350 390, 66, 390, 220 66, 92.

But what a model it could make! trains running and just passing by and throw in the recent intermodal releases...Crewe it is! cracking virtual model taking shape in my head!:( :huh:

Ian


Where's the 175s ? Pretty key to Crewe these days.

#25 Red Fox

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 12:31

Pictures of painted samples of the 350's are on the Bachmann site

Silverlink
London Midland







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