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Hayle Wharf.





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#26 Flood

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 15:31

I have recently been given a collection of fabulous photos by John Lloyd. John worked at the Esso depot for many years, and operated the shunter tractor which hauled the tanks into the Esso plant. His collection shows regular rat visitor 25155 shunting the tanks, and some interesting shots inside the depot, including a partial picture of the tractor complete with buffer beam and draw hook attached.  

Great news Craig. Will you be able to post them on here?





#27 winterbournecm

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 10:54

Sorry meant to attach them yesterday, please respect Johns copyright chaps:

 

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#28 Fat Controller

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 11:20

Thanks for posting those, Craig. I presume that by this time, coal was brought in by coastal shipping and distributed by road? Is that the 'shunting tractor' in the fifth photo? It looks like an old Muir-Hill tractor shovel that has been modified with a 'buffer-beam'. The high-level views of the road tankers will be of interest to any modelling a tanker of this period; it's very obvious that the tanks are divided into numerous small compartments, to accommodate deliveries of multiple fuel types to several customers, rather than to one or two large customers, as is the case with most deliveries today.


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#29 winterbournecm

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 14:03

Hello Brian

 

Yes the only traffic I remember was oil and just remember the ICI traffic. There was coal there which may have had the odd wagon - but I cant confirm this. I have a picture of a mineral picture behind 25052 down there, but this may have been a barrier vehicle. Certanly ships were unloaded from ships from Barry. I remember the huge cranes beside the quay but regret no pictures of them.

 

The shunt Tractor information I have is from a Facebook group called Nostalgic Hayle:

 am involved with a group on Facebook called Nostalgic Hayle, and there has been a lot of interest in the Hayle Wharves trains. One gem that came out this weekend was details of the road oil tank shunter that dealt with the tanks at the Esso depot. One chap who serviced it each week has identified it as 1967 AEC Mandator E reg numbered 9744. The guys from Copperhouse garage used to service it on a Friday afternoon.



#30 Fat Controller

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 14:07

Hello Brian

 

Yes the only traffic I remember was oil and just remember the ICI traffic. There was coal there which may have had the odd wagon - but I cant confirm this. I have a picture of a mineral picture behind 25052 down there, but this may have been a barrier vehicle. Certanly ships were unloaded from ships from Barry. I remember the huge cranes beside the quay but regret no pictures of them.

 

The shunt Tractor information I have is from a Facebook group called Nostalgic Hayle:

 am involved with a group on Facebook called Nostalgic Hayle, and there has been a lot of interest in the Hayle Wharves trains. One gem that came out this weekend was details of the road oil tank shunter that dealt with the tanks at the Esso depot. One chap who serviced it each week has identified it as 1967 AEC Mandator E reg numbered 9744. The guys from Copperhouse garage used to service it on a Friday afternoon.

The Mandator must have been later (it would have looked like the tractor hauling the tank trailer); the yellow beast (with drawhook visible) is definitely an ex-tractor shovel of some sort.



#31 winterbournecm

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 14:28

Thanks - thats around 1980 in the picture above. The 25 has twin spot G39 headcodes.



#32 Tricky-CRS

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 14:43

I take it all the pictures are from the same period, 1980 ish? Excellent pics will have to have a look at the Farish 25s at some point now.



#33 Gwiwer

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 02:24

A potted history.

 

Coal was shipped in to Hayle Harbour from South Wales to fire the various plants of Harveys Foundry (from whence "Foundry" takes its name at the western end of Hayle centred around Foundry Square) and the Cornish Copper Company at the eastern end (hence that area being known as "Copperhouse") and was railed initially via the old Hayle Railway (1837 - 1852) to the foundries.

 

Going back to this image : post-7289-0-69207000-1336679095.jpg the course of the Hayle Railway is marked by King George V Memorial Walk which uses its trackbed.  The Hayle Railway then bifurcated around two sides of what is now the swimming pool with one spur leading to North Quay (Hayle Wharf as the railways knew it) and the other towards the town.

 

The Hayle Railway "main line" crossed a sluice as it came past the swimming pool from east to south and the abutments of the bridge remain visible some 160 years after closure. The actual layout on the Quay is uncertain but modern sources suggest it was not dissimilar to that later used by the West Cornwall Railway / GWR / BR.  

 

The original line did not use the black swing bridge but another one slightly to the west and depositing the line on the river bank close to what is now the new Philps Bakery on East Quay.  It then ran beside the road through the now-raised grassy area with a terminus facing south just short of where the current viaduct crosses Foundry Square.  That building was demolished in 1948 after many years of intermittent use as a meeting hall.  Rails continued around in  U-turn again parallel with the exiting road and to the north of it before entering Harvey's foundry site and dividing into a number of sidings.  The Hayle Railway route therefore passed beneath the existing Hayle Viaduct twice just as the old A30 road still does.

 

The Hayle Railway became a victim of the growth of a national network and was ultimately replaced by the West Cornwall Railway's Angarrack deviation.  Hayle (WCR) station opened on its present site and the line across the viaduct with it in 1852.  The spur from the viaduct down behind Penpol Terrace to the level crossing and the black swing bridge date from around this time as does the direct line into the Wharf area (the south - north chord past the pool) which was not a part of the Hayle Railway.

 

After many years of dereliction and empty promises the entire area is finally being redeveloped.  Harveys  Foundry site is about to open as an ASDA store and a few houses have stood alongside the old A30 there for a number of years.  The remaining foundry structures, long derelict in the main and ravaged by fire in recent years, are also to be conserved.  The Wharf (North Quay) area is also being redeveloped as a part of which an all-new road bridge has replaced the swing bridge slightly to the east.  The new one provides a two-lane road which will better serve the new developments; the swing bridge only ever offered a single lane roadway which was shared with pedestrians, though most of them later used the railway side of the bridge after closure to trains and until it too was fenced off forcing them back into the roadway.

 

The rails on the quay, of which I have photos dating from the 1990s, are gone or - if not - are about to go as new roads are built and the proposed developments to return the area to a working harbour / boat marina finally come about.  My photos are near-duplicates of those already posted so don't need to be added here as they show nothing different.


Edited by Gwiwer, 19 April 2014 - 02:32 .

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#34 RICHARDCHAPMAN

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 08:31

Hi,Ok for anybody that's interested and has a copy or can find one.On sorting through some mags yesterday I cam across a copy of the Great Western journal.Its number 71 summer 2009.

There is a several page article on Hayle.Its entitled "The 8.10am Hayle Wharves".

Ive not read through it yet but has bothe the approach plan and the track plan of the Wharves.Also various pics inc horse shunting.

I hope this may be of interest to you all.

Thanks Richard


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#35 cctransuk

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 08:49


The original line did not use the black swing bridge but another one slightly to the west and depositing the line on the river bank close to what is now the new Philps Bakery on East Quay.

 

Close inspection of the yard area adjacent to the fish sheds, (immediately to the north of Philps' bakery), should reveal in-situ rails from this period.

 

At least it did when I last visited a couple of years ago!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.


Edited by cctransuk, 19 April 2014 - 08:50 .


#36 Coombe Barton

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 09:00

At least it did when I last visited a couple of years ago!

Don't guarantee it - lots of work's been happening in many places 

 

 http://www.hayleharbour.com/

 

http://www.hayle.net...masterplanS.pdf

 

And it'll look nothing like it did - http://www.westbrito...tail/story.html


Edited by Coombe Barton, 19 April 2014 - 09:06 .


#37 Kris

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 06:59

Whilst down on North Quay yesterday I was surprised to find that there is still a short section of track remaining in situ near the power station. I'd never noticed it before but know that it is likely to go soon when this area is developed.



#38 uax6

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 07:27

The AEC Mandator mentioned above was the shunter of the ROAD tanks, and I think its the one in the photos with the 4wheel road tank on its fifth wheel. I doubt it would have been much use for shunting rail wagons. The Muir Hill would be much more useful.

 

Andy G



#39 Martync

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Posted 17 June 2016 - 07:59

Do any original track plans for the layout on Hayle Wharves exist??  I've looked up old OS maps but they are none too helpful........



#40 Coombe Barton

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Posted 17 June 2016 - 19:50

Do any original track plans for the layout on Hayle Wharves exist??  I've looked up old OS maps but they are none too helpful........

 

 

Great Western Railway Journal no 71 (2009)



#41 winterbournecm

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Posted 19 June 2016 - 13:26

Slightly off topic railway wise, but still fascinating is pictures of the former power station's control room. All still in situ, though abandoned like some gloomy cold war bunker. If you are on Facebook, the nostalgic Hayle group is well worth following. I'm hoping for some ICI pictures as my grandfather worked there in the 60/70s.



#42 Coombe Barton

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Posted 19 June 2016 - 13:57

Pix and aerials here - http://www.historic-...ment_report.pdf


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#43 Martync

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 09:00

Many thanks for the references.  there are some old aerial pics on "Britain from above" website http://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/


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#44 Western Aviator

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 19:36

I understand that in later years the freight down to Hayle wharf was propelled from St.Erth with a brake van leading, but I can't find any reference to what happened with the return working. Did it run bang road back to St.Erth to run round? All the pictures I have seen have the loco leading up the bank to the main line so I guess it must have done.

#45 Flood

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 22:05

I understand that in later years the freight down to Hayle wharf was propelled from St.Erth with a brake van leading, but I can't find any reference to what happened with the return working. Did it run bang road back to St.Erth to run round? All the pictures I have seen have the loco leading up the bank to the main line so I guess it must have done.

It ran wrong road until 3/4 the way over the viaduct where there was a crossover, see the photo below:

 

http://www.cornwallr...62232_orig.jpeg


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#46 Western Aviator

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 06:54

It ran wrong road until 3/4 the way over the viaduct where there was a crossover, see the photo below:
 
http://www.cornwallr...62232_orig.jpeg


Thanks for that Flood. I've never seen a picture of that end of the viaduct so didn't know there was a crossover there. Makes me wonder why they didn't back the train in to the wharf from the down line. Would have saved a long propelling move.

#47 Gwiwer

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 08:31

 

 

Makes me wonder why they didn't back the train in to the wharf from the down line.

Sharp curve, steep gradient, main road level crossing at the bottom; a recipe for disaster if ever there had been a runaway and with a watery grave not too far beyond the main road.  Much safer to have the loco leading.



#48 winterbournecm

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 08:48

Thanks for that Flood. I've never seen a picture of that end of the viaduct so didn't know there was a crossover there. Makes me wonder why they didn't back the train in to the wharf from the down line. Would have saved a long propelling move.

I think the reply refers to why the train didn't come from the East (Drump yard) already formed and cross over at the western end of the viaduct, and propel down the wharf from there, rather than St Erth. It's a good point. The barrier wagons and brake vans were attached at St Erth. The morning freight contained all sorts and was marshalled at St Erth ready for the wharves train. 


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#49 Western Aviator

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 09:42

I think the reply refers to why the train didn't come from the East (Drump yard) already formed and cross over at the western end of the viaduct, and propel down the wharf from there, rather than St Erth. It's a good point. The barrier wagons and brake vans were attached at St Erth. The morning freight contained all sorts and was marshalled at St Erth ready for the wharves train.


Thanks Craig, that is exactly what I was getting at. As, presumably, all the traffic for the wharf came from points east of Hayle, it would have saved a long propelling move from St.Erth if they'd done exactly what you described above. But, as you say, if the barrier wagons and brake van were added, and the train marshalled at St.Erth, that was probably the reason for it.
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#50 Western Aviator

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 09:49

Sharp curve, steep gradient, main road level crossing at the bottom; a recipe for disaster if ever there had been a runaway and with a watery grave not too far beyond the main road. Much safer to have the loco leading.


I fully agree that would have been safer, but if there was nowhere to run round in the wharf, it seems that is exactly what they did.

Edited by Western Aviator, 12 October 2016 - 10:03 .