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Susmotor Lima Remotoring

James90012

By James90012,
in Motors & Drive Systems

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kevinlms

kevinlms

Posted
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Just a quicky, 

 

Has anybody used these motors? They seem like a cheap alternative to Modeltorque, are they compatible with most Lima locos?

 

If they are good, they seem like an absolute bargain

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Susumotor-Lima-motor-replacement-motor-for-the-Pancake-motor-/261312226670?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item3cd76c256e

Might be the only alternative to ModelTorque, since the passing of the owner..

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Marcyg

Marcyg

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There was another alternative that used the same type of motor but came on a mounting plate, similar to the modeltorque product. I got a few of these ones and they seemed quite good. Cant remember the name though

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Simon G

Simon G

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They're basically just cd/dvd drive spindle motors. There is a few online tutorials about using them to remotor Hornby/lima bogies.

I have looked on line and cant actually find any tutorials!  Do you have a link to one?  I have a couple of Lima Pancakes that I would like to improve, and am about to decommission two old PCs, so might dismantle the CD  drives and remove the motors.

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Simon G

Simon G

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Dave, thanks for the links.  I have now 'harvested' the motors out of the old CD drives and have two of the sort on the first link, and also another can motor, which looks interesting.  I have tried a quick look to see how easily it will fit into a Hornby Ringfield, as I have a spare casing in my spares box.  There are two obvious obstacles to fitting one of these.  As John Dent says, the casing needs to be drilled out to allow the CD motor to fit.  The existing hole is about 5mm diameter and needs to be drilled out to 6.3mm (1/4 inch) diameter.  The second obstacle is that there is a lug in the casing which prevents the CD motor from fitting snug & square into the motor casing.  The lug was there to ensure correct fitting and location of the original magnet.  I have (hopefully) attached a picture of the casing with a red circle around the lug.  The solution to this is either to grind the lug away, or build up other parts of the casing to the same height.  I haven't decided which option to try yet.

 

post-9029-0-39766300-1384115640_thumb.jpg

 

I have also taken and uploaded a photo of the second motor (only one of the CD drives had this type).  It was the motor which drives the read/write head back and forth over the CD.  It runs nicely with a 9V battery across it.  I might try it as an X03/4 type alternative.  It already has a plastic housing which will help mounting it in a loco.

 

post-9029-0-30494100-1384115884.jpg

 

I hope to have a look at the Lima re-motoring tomorrow at a club night, as the club has a better selection of tools than I have at home! 

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Simon G

Simon G

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I would either grind off the lug or use a washer to raise the height. Neither should too difficult.

I have now ground the lug off, and a friend had a 1/4 inch reamer, so the 5mm hole is now the correct 6.3mm size, and the collar of a Susumotor fits nice and snugly.  The next problem is that the motor shaft diameter is approx 2mm and the Ringfield spur gear is 2.5mm, so I either need to build up the 2mm to 2.5mm or fill the spur gear hole with either glue or solder and then drill it back out again to 2mm.  I made an attempt at increasing the motor shaft diameter, but it didnt work, so it will have to be the latter option of filling the spur gear hole and redrilling, unless anyone has a better suggestion?

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bigherb

bigherb

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The earlier Ringfield motors had brass gears I got a couple of spares from East Kent Models with the intention of filling them with solder and drilling them on a lathe for a similar project, just haven't got around to doing it yet.

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Kenton

Kenton

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so it will have to be the latter option of filling the spur gear hole and redrilling, unless anyone has a better suggestion?

Not the best solution. drilling a straight and accurate hole will be very difficult (I'd even say near impossible) to do by hand. I would have another go at increasing the shaft diameter
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Simon G

Simon G

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 Not the best solution. drilling a straight and accurate hole will be very difficult (I'd even say near impossible) to do by hand. I would have another go at increasing the shaft diameter

 

I have had a go at increasing the shaft diameter with glue and allowing it to harden, but as soon as I try to fit the gear, the glue just comes away - I have tried a couple of types of glue.  Any other thoughts on how to increase the diameter?

 

Put one in a rewheeled ex-Lima Cl.40 bogie. Not bad, but didn't strike me as being noticeably stronger than the Lima original.

 

From my own perspective, I am not after a strong pulling motor, as my intention is to power a Lima 117 DMU power car converted to a 121 railcar, so I dont need brute force!.  What I am hoping to improve is the smooth running.  I have now managed to get some Lima-compatible gears, and have fitted one of the Susumotors into the Pancake, and it seems to run OK on the bench.  Will try it out at my local club on Thursday as I dont have a layout of my own.

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Simon G

Simon G

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Where did you manage to find the gears?

 

I contacted the guy in Finland who is selling the motors including gears on ebay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261335739987?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649), and asked him if he could supply just the gears.  He could, so I bought 5 off him.  They are plastic gears, unlike the Hornby Ringfield brass ones, so I dont know how robust they will be.  I did also dismantle a failed Lima armature to get the gears, but have the same problem as in the Ringfields in that the gear internal diameter is larger than the motor shaft, so needs some work to get it to fit.

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Simon G

Simon G

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A brass sleeve is worth a try.  I would guess that the chance of buying a suitable sleeve (1.5mm ID, 2.4mm OD) is about non-existent, so the best bet would be to take some brass sheet and try to make a sleeve.  I will have to see if I have any suitable sheet at home this evening.

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Kenton

Kenton

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I have had a go at increasing the shaft diameter with glue and allowing it to harden, but as soon as I try to fit the gear, the glue just comes away - I have tried a couple of types of glue. Any other thoughts on how to increase the diameter?

 

No surprise with that method. The shaft requires something like a brass shim that is a tight fit - does not matter so much that the gear centre is then too small as it is easier to use a broach to cut a larger hole. (Remember the engineer's motto that it is easier to make a hole bigger than it is to make a hole smaller.) These should be interference fits and then simply locked in place with Loctite 603.
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Jinty3f

Jinty3f

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I used some sticky copper tape, the stuff you use as a wire substitute,  wrapped tightly around the shaft.  By over wrapping first, it was possible to remove small amounts until an interference fit was achieved. Then the gear (in my case

  cut from the now redundant Lima armature) was twisted on in the same direction to avoid unwinding the copper foil.

After checking that it ran ok, a drop of superglue was dribbled into the centre. So far, after about 18 months regular use

nothing has come adrift and the loco, a Class 33 is a far better runner than before. Of course, extra pickups were added

and a Bachmann chip went in as well.

JD

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Simon G

Simon G

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Is it not possible to use a brass sleeve?

I managed to find some brass sheet of the correct thickness and made up a sleeve, and it does fit really well, so I have now made the remotored Ringfield working nicely on the bench.  It will need some Loctite or superglue to permanently secure the gear & sleeve in place.  One advantage over the original Ringfield is that the spur gear will fit though the reamed chassis hole, so that you can fit the sleeve and gear onto the motor, then secure the motor in place.

 

The remotored Lima pancake in the Class 117 power car had a good run for the first time last night, and I was pleasantly surprised at its performance.  Starting and stopping was very smooth - much better than the Lima original.  Top speed was way above anything you would want to run it at normally.  Pulling power was limited - I tried to pull a rake of 7 Bachmann Mk1s, and there was a lot of slipping and it never really got going.  Some additional weight might have solved the issue, but as I dont intend to pull that sort of load, it isnt essential for me.  It is very responsive to low settings on a standard DC controller, and I didnt dare getting it to full power on the controller.  One of the articles on the links earlier in this thread talked about putting a resistor in series, which might help protect it from too high a voltage.  I have a variety of resistors, so might have a go at that - one of the suggestions on the links above was a 150 ohm one for a Dock Shunter, so that will be a starting point.

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Adrian Wintle

Adrian Wintle

Posted
Posted (edited)

Those CD motors tend to have a 2-6V operating range. The ones I have found in CD drives are either:

 

Mabuchi FF-030PA or PK, FF-050SB or FF-130RH or SH (all small can motors),

http://www.mabuchi-motor.co.jp/en_US/product/p_0304.html

 

or

 

Panasonic/Matsushita/Minebea MDN3 (the remotoring one) and PPN13 (the long one)

http://www.eminebea.com/en/engineering_info/rotary/brushmotor/dc_brushmotor/cat/001-01.shtml

 

Adrian

Edited by Adrian Wintle
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kevinlms

kevinlms

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I managed to find some brass sheet of the correct thickness and made up a sleeve, and it does fit really well, so I have now made the remotored Ringfield working nicely on the bench.  It will need some Loctite or superglue to permanently secure the gear & sleeve in place.  One advantage over the original Ringfield is that the spur gear will fit though the reamed chassis hole, so that you can fit the sleeve and gear onto the motor, then secure the motor in place.

 

The remotored Lima pancake in the Class 117 power car had a good run for the first time last night, and I was pleasantly surprised at its performance.  Starting and stopping was very smooth - much better than the Lima original.  Top speed was way above anything you would want to run it at normally.  Pulling power was limited - I tried to pull a rake of 7 Bachmann Mk1s, and there was a lot of slipping and it never really got going.  Some additional weight might have solved the issue, but as I dont intend to pull that sort of load, it isnt essential for me.  It is very responsive to low settings on a standard DC controller, and I didnt dare getting it to full power on the controller.  One of the articles on the links earlier in this thread talked about putting a resistor in series, which might help protect it from too high a voltage.  I have a variety of resistors, so might have a go at that - one of the suggestions on the links above was a 150 ohm one for a Dock Shunter, so that will be a starting point.

Back to back diodes also work, as each diode drops about 0.7 volts, so you can add them in series. So if you used 6 diodes (1N4004 will be fine) 3 in series each way, the voltage drop would be 2.1 volts.add or subtract diodes to suit. Just make sure you use the same number facing each way.

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