Clerestory Coaches, Knowledge needed! - And other GWR ponderings.

[Satan's Goldfish]

They look more 'inboard' than I imagined. For some reason I thought they'd line up with the carriage end.

[Welchester]

They look more 'inboard' than I imagined. For some reason I thought they'd line up with the carriage end.

 

They have been fitted inside out, though, haven't they? The NEM pockets are facing inwards. They would look much better reversed because the pivot is off-centre.

[Re6/6]

You're quite right Bishop. My mistake was that I was comparing them to a C4 which does have them more inboard and l did fit them the wrong way round. My knowledge of Dean coaches increases every day!

 

. http://www.gwr.org.uk/protriang.html

 

 

A D7 would seem to be the nearest with 2 panels 'short' and the bogies are inset a bit more.

 

 

From Russell.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Re6/6

[Satan's Goldfish]

That makes more sense, as soon as I work out how many Triangs I have I'll have to remember these!

 

Been working on the 6 wheel coach height today, it's down to within about 1mm of the ratio height, which is close enough for me! Side on shot is a bit cruel;

 

 

 

 

But viewed at an angle it looks fine;

 

 

 

 

I've filed down the solebar sides of the chassis removing all the details, and filed down the buffer beam removing the slight bulge for the coupling rivet. The chassis top is now roughly the same size as the plastic base in the carriage.

 

The ratio carriage was taken apart, it's base removed, and then rebuilt on the chassis using the inside lip moulds (for aligning the now removed base) on the sides and ends to sit it slightly lower on the chassis. The buffer beams are clearly too high and it's missing running boards and underframe detail (got no suitable plastic strip currently, just sheets) but it's a good start.

 

 

 

Edit: looking at the top photo, I don't think I've fitted the right end of the roof down properly which doesn't help.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Satan's Goldfish

[Satan's Goldfish]

OK I went there, won a couple of Cally coaches on eBay. I found on one of the GWR threads a link to information describing one that was used as a through coach Glasgow to Taunton (I think) with roof boards marking it as such. So the 2 I got can be marked up Glasgow to North Quay and added to express sets. Need to find some 6 wheel bogies now, then get back hacking clerestorys and ratio 4 wheelers.

 

[RosiesBoss]

G'day, Satan's Goldfish,

 

I upgraded a couple of Tri-ang Caley coaches, as described here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/102076-motorisation-of-gbl-caledonian-single-and-upgrading-of-her-coaches/

 

The six-wheeled bogies I used were Lima part No 9171 064, originally made to run under their H0 NSWGR sleeping cars. I found some on eBay and others at bring-and-buy stalls.

 

Good hunting!

 

Regards,

 

Rob

[jcm@gwr]

I know I'm a bit late to the party, but reading this thread has re-awakened my cutting & shutting urges!

 

So I have read through the GWR Modelling and Penrhos Junction websites, as well as checking some

of the other threads on RMWeb, and have started to chop!

 

Firstly it was well worth reading and understanding the Lewis Coach Classification (Penrhos), because

then it was much easier to see what the Triang clerestories could be used for.

Both the Triang coaches are CEE7N [clerestory, elliptic, elliptic, 7"(above windows) & normal (8' 3/4")],

so anything marked the same can be 'created' just by chopping and joining to your heart's content!

With a bit of modellers license, there are others as well [eg W = 8' 6 3/4" (only 2mm difference!)]

 

So far I have done a C23 (10 compartment 3rd, 58') and a D9 (4 cmpt, 3rd brake, 48' 6"), like Nick did

earlier this thread (although we disagree on the Diagram No!), the C23 was done with the left-over bits

from my A4 (7 cmpt, 1st, 50'), and the last one, a D3 look-a-like (6 cmpt, centre brake, extra luggage).

I still going to do either a D24 or a D37, and a C10, maybe even a C2*, they will be relatively easy, but

I'm also eyeing up some of the E diagrams, harder!

 

I am taking pics, but I still have to get my camera to talk to my lap-top before I can post them.

 

* I know a C3b would be more accurate, but I like the idea of a short coach!

Edited May 6, 2017 by jcm@gwr

[jcm@gwr]

Update time, rather than edit my previous post.

 

I should have spent longer doing my research! It turns out that a C4 is my best option for a short

coach, so I've started on that. Whilst I'm cutting, I always keep checking to see if the offcuts can

be used elsewhere, on another diagram, to make sure that I make the best use of as much of the

donor as possible, [so far the only real wasted sections are the look-outs (duckets)].

 

I decided on an E17/18 (internal differences only) for my composite, and just to really stretch my

abilities, I'm going to do a F12 as well!

 

All the left-over bits will be used up to make as many C10 units as possible, as they were the most

common of these diagrams (over 300 built!)

[Penrhos1920]

Update time, rather than edit my previous post.

 

I should have spent longer doing my research! It turns out that a C4 is my best option for a short

coach, so I've started on that. Whilst I'm cutting, I always keep checking to see if the offcuts can

be used elsewhere, on another diagram, to make sure that I make the best use of as much of the

donor as possible, [so far the only real wasted sections are the look-outs (duckets)].

 

I decided on an E17/18 (internal differences only) for my composite, and just to really stretch my

abilities, I'm going to do a F12 as well!

 

All the left-over bits will be used up to make as many C10 units as possible, as they were the most

common of these diagrams (over 300 built!)

Now I know why the price of these coaches has rocketed on eBay. Don't forget that C4 and E17/8 have arc roof for the clerestory. It makes a nice change. Looking forward to seeing them all

[jcm@gwr]

Now I know why the price of these coaches has rocketed on eBay. Don't forget that C4 and E17/8 have arc roof for the clerestory. It makes a nice change. Looking forward to seeing them all

 

Not guilty! I've had most of them for years, picking up odd ones here and there.

 

I know, and the D3 has double arc too, I'll give it a go, especially if I run out of

original roof material, otherwise it's Rule 1.

[Satan's Goldfish]

Finally something other than panniers to head up sets of coaches.

 

 

Yes I know the Saint isn't Hornby's finest effort, but it's in keeping with coarse scale bodging and is useful for the occasional express. The Dean Goods can duel hat trip goods or commuter sets, this is quite a recent Hornby offering I think, seemed an eBay bargin with a couple of minutes left and no bids.

[Edwardian]

Finally something other than panniers to head up sets of coaches.

 

20170524_204512.jpg

 

Yes I know the Saint isn't Hornby's finest effort, but it's in keeping with coarse scale bodging and is useful for the occasional express. The Dean Goods can duel hat trip goods or commuter sets, this is quite a recent Hornby offering I think, seemed an eBay bargin with a couple of minutes left and no bids.

 

As it's likely to be the best RTR Dean Goods ever released, cherish it!

[lofty1966]

As it's likely to be the best RTR Dean Goods ever released, cherish it!

You're not putting much faith in the Oxford Fail release are you ? Ag ag ag

[Edwardian]

You're not putting much faith in the Oxford Fail release are you ? Ag ag ag

 

I'm hopeful.

 

The cab will be cured, hopefully the handrail/wash-out plugs will get sorted, and the splasher rivets will go.

 

What I am not expecting is any reduction on the wheel size being the optimum diameter with tyres, which, I suspect, will cause the splashers to be about 30% too big overall, which will be noticeable and throw out the proportions of the new-imp[roved can-side profile.

 

So, while we must wait and see, I am hoping for more than expecting adequate improvements!

 

So, it would be premature to throw away your old Mainline/Hornby Dean.

 

Well, you did ask!

Edited May 26, 2017 by Edwardian

[Compound2632]

I had an interesting chat with the guy at ExpoEM in Bracknell who was demonstrating bashing Ratio sides into assorted diagrams - checking the EM Gauge Society website I think his name must be Peter Sutherland - I asked whether there was scope for mixing and matching Ratio and Triang sides; he said no, because the slight differences in panel width and depth become too apparent. He had a splendid range of non-clerestory carriages, though.

 

He reckoned there are only three diagrams one can make out of the Triang bodies, all using the brake third - the compartment sizes on the non-brake carriage being unhelpful.

[jcm@gwr]

 

He reckoned there are only three diagrams one can make out of the Triang bodies, all using the brake third - the compartment sizes on the non-brake carriage being unhelpful.

 

I would suggest that he has not done a very good job in his research!

 

Using the Lewis classification, any coach CEE7N will match up with the

Triang bodies; if it ends with a W, you might want to add 2mm to the ends,

(to make them wider)

The A's indicate arc rooves (not elliptical), not that difficult to modify if you

really want to.

Then it's just down to courage and inventive cutting to create different length

compartments, you can even use a door, with the handles and hinges cut

off, to create a lav window.

(The number refers to the size of the panel above the windows, in inches)

Edited May 28, 2017 by jcm@gwr

[Re6/6]

Good news on the Dean bogie front. I bought a set of 10' whitemetal ones from Brian Mosby (Mozzer) of 247 Developments at Railex. He does 8' 6" and the elusive 6' 4". Unfortunately he was out of stock of the latter. They go out faster than he can get them!

 

The quality of the casting is very good and it's good that they are back available again!

 

Edited May 29, 2017 by Re6/6

[81E]

Here they are offered up. The wheelsets are P4 and are a loose fit. Obviously pin point bearings will be needed but do note that if fitting '00' wheelsets some thought will have to be given to making up some form of extended bearings. I won't have this to think about but maybe some short pieces of brass tube in which to fit the bearings might be the solution.

 

004.JPG

 

006.JPG

 

005.JPG

 

Note the '00' wheelset.

008.JPG

 

For information, my Dean 6'4" bogie is designed to be used with 2mm top had bearings (as stated in the product description). The lower of the two photos above does not appear to have any bearings fitted which would explain why the wheels were loose. The shoulder of the bearing fits in a recess to hold it in position for a Hornby 00 Axe, though some flexing of the sides may be needed to achieve smooth running.

 

I have also fitted shoulder-less 2mm bearings into the bogies which can be pushed a little further in which is helpful when using Bachmann wheels which otherwise seem tighter. Unfortunately I do not know if P4 axels are longer than Hornby ones so I do not know if this would help.

 

As an aside I've just created a bearing less version but will not be printing it for some while until I have enough other models to make Shapeways postage viable.

Edited June 1, 2018 by 81E

[Satan's Goldfish]

Thinking of expanding into some self bodged 6 wheeled siphons. Does the ratio 4 wheel coach roof curve match/similar to the o1 (or similar) siphon roof profile? The thought is Hornby 6 wheel chassis, laser cut ends and sides, and ratio roof (I really suck at smooth roof curves). I know that might be an unrealistic length, but it would be an easy build so rule 1 is in effect.

[jcm@gwr]

Thinking of expanding into some self bodged 6 wheeled siphons. Does the ratio 4 wheel coach roof curve match/similar to the o1 (or similar) siphon roof profile? The thought is Hornby 6 wheel chassis, laser cut ends and sides, and ratio roof (I really suck at smooth roof curves). I know that might be an unrealistic length, but it would be an easy build so rule 1 is in effect.

 

If you are happy to have it permanently stabled in a siding,

waiting to be loaded/unloaded, otherwise find a better chassis.

[Satan's Goldfish]

If you are happy to have it permanently stabled in a siding,

waiting to be loaded/unloaded, otherwise find a better chassis.

Scroll up to post 305 I'm very coarse modelling here.

[Il Grifone]

I'd try and find a K's kit on eBay. Most are white metal, but there was a plastic version available for a while. The roof profile is much the same as the Ratio one. AFAIK the roof profile only changes with different body widths.

 

I've modified one to an arc roof O4 for variety.

 

Standard P4 and EM axles* are 26mm over pinpoints with a 60° angle on the pin-point and 2mm diameter. This mates with 55° top hat bearings designed to fit axleguards at 24mm spacing. (I believe there are drawings on the EMGS website). Hormby (metal wheel) axles used to be 26mm too, but now appear to have adopted the NMRA specification of 25.4mm/1". Why?

 

* Should be used for 00 too. Note Romford/Markits axles are 26mm, but their bearings are non-standard - details on their website.

 

EDIT

 

Continental axles are different again, shorter still, but they are intended for H0. Details on the MOROP site (in French and German - they are looking for someone to translate into English.)

Edited June 8, 2018 by Il Grifone

[NHY 581]

Just found this thread.

 

All very timely as I am looking to do something fairly dastardly to a Triang Clerestory brake......

 

 

Rob.

[Siberian Snooper]

Just found this thread.

All very timely as I am looking to do something fairly dastardly to a Triang Clerestory brake......

Rob.

Do tell!

[melmerby]

 

Standard P4 and EM axles* are 26mm over pinpoints with a 60° angle on the pin-point and 2mm diameter. This mates with 55° top hat bearings designed to fit axleguards at 24mm spacing. (I believe there are drawings on the EMGS website).

Is that correct?

If so the pin point won't do anything as the axle cannot reach right into the bearing.

The bearing surely must have a greater angle than the axle.

 

Cheers

 

Keith