5BarVT

Including a lot of smashed up sleepers from the van behind the Hymek? Paul.

For the avoidance of doubt, I meant going anti clockwise around the central island (‘the wrong way’ compared to a normal roundabout) while correctly following the lane markings. Can see why you might have interpreted my words differently! Paul.

You’re making me jealous and nostalgic! I do like a Furka Oberalp loco. It has a differ3nt feel in English! Paul.

Liquid sunshine, dear boy! Paul.

Judicious changing of an 8 to a 6 required! Paul.

Will that be a Gwiwer Penhayle Bay type of beach scene, or is Pentowan too refined for that? Paul.

And Hemel. Paul.

I’ve learnt something tonight. I was about to say ‘you can’t ’cos they will have different coupling codes’. But I thought I would check first . . . I had assumed (for over 50 years) that Blue Square meant epicyclic gear box, but now I know that although some hydraulic transmission is a different code, there were some that were Blue Square. My guess is that the instructions were to drive a mixed set like a mechanical transmission - the epicyclic gearbox didn’t like a ‘hot change’ that you could possibly get away with in a torque converter. Paul. P.S. I still don’t know what a 112 or a 113 is. By the time Ian Allen was adding class numbers (‘74 ish) it seems they had all been withdrawn.

The only good bit is the magic roundabout. It’s even the official name now. Great fun on a bike, especially when you you go the ‘wrong way round’ just cos you can. :-) Paul.

The ‘crossover’ is the facing point and the opposite end of the slip. The hand points are the blades nearest to the facing point that dete4mine whether you go to the loop or the siding. Paul.

Was there ever going to be any other outcome? (See Q.E.D.above!) Paul.

Hello again Bill, I hadn’t thought about dropping off vehicles from the tank train. That makes life fun! Nor had I thought about using the clay shunters for the stone traffic - different company and all that. The advantage of being General Manager of all three is that you can cause such cooperation to happen. Thinking further about dropping off from the down tanks. My gut feel is that the traffic for Tregrea would be marshalled at the front. Then it’s a stop behind TG9, run forwards with the traffic, detach from loco with yard shunter (or set back and leave in headshunt G), then loco back onto front of train and away. All done with just the one LoS (behind TG9) and route up to it from the sidings. Running round on the main lines is a lot more fraught and difficult to signal. A further thought about the siding layout which gives another alternative for stone and down tanks is an extra crossover loco length clear of the buffers between Headshunt A and Reception B. That gives more run round space so the stone arrivals could be run round by the train loco and shunted into siding C. And then the tanks could run into the yard (with the Tregrea traffic at the back), run round and shunt off the traffic, run back onto the front, propel out behind TG9 and away. All the messy stuff goes on in the yard and the main line is left clear. Paul. P.S. Thank you for the mental exercises and armchair modelling opportunities you have provided.

That’s a very restrictive release for the DY, but then, you are modelling the LM! And well done for blowing up for the cameraman. Paul.

Hi Bill, Shame the signals are already installed, it limits the changes that can be made (!). The reference numbers are helpful, it makes it clear which signals are being discussed. And I take your point made earlier that this is all about enjoyment and having FUN. You discussed the catch point earlier and you’ve added it in on this diagram. I don’t think it is needed. Single lines on the main line in Cornwall bring Largin viaduct to mind. It didn’t have a catch point in the up direction, and in the down it had full sand drag run offs on both lines - that makes me think it was gradient and consequence related (a viaduct implies a bit of a drop if you overrun!). They were provided at passing loops on single lines to permit simultaneous arrivals and that was to do with the block regulations. By definition, trains are timed to pass at loops so there was a time advantage to such arrangements. On single line sections on double lines, timing is usually to avoid clashes on the single line. I think (but don’t know without more research of the Absolute Block regs) that you could still run up to TG2 with a train coming off the single line. (And the FUN element says just do it anyway!) On to the signals: TG8 and TG9 may well be combined (it’s easier if they are). These days the bracket on TG9 would be a disc signal, but back in the day, not necessarily (and ‘old’ signalling has a habit of hanging around for a long time). So TG9 is fine, as is TG2, and you don’t need a separate TG8. The fun comes with the running round etc, and that all depends on what moves you want to make and whether any or all trains make use of the siding shunters. Up Goods (the only one) needs TG6 to set back into the sidings so that’s fine. Down Arrivals - I’m assuming that some (or all) trains will run round before propelling back into the sidings. If done on the down line (most likely in practice) you need TG4 to signal up to an imagined (offstage) LoS (Limit of Shunt) behind TG9. There’s then the fun of getting the loco onto the back of the train and whether that needs a calling on arm or is just done with a flag (assume the latter). Then the train needs to pull back behind TG9 and that will need another disc signal on the down line. Alternatively (and less likely, but gives a reason for the bracket signal on TG1) is to run round on the up line. The bracket on TG9 then read to the up line and TG8 is needed to access the sidings direct. A signal opposite TG2 on the up line is needed and I think there would still be a shunt signal on the down for reading back to the LoS for the loco running round. It’s rather unusual for TG1 to have two main arms rather than a disc for the run round, but that’s what’s available and what you have. Not sure how much I’m helping and how much is just muddying the waters. Don't forget the fun! Paul.

Thats why us oldies model times of yore! Paul.

Which would be missed more? Q.E.D. Paul.

Indeed, all the oil would likely have gone, leaving only the heavy metals . . . :-) Paul.

Sure it’s not shoving a failure out right road? Paul.

Can’t quite remember as it’s a long time since I was inside one of mine, but I seem to recall that the LEDs might be pre wired to the leads and thus already in their chosen CA/CC condition. But even if they are , nothing to stop you unsoldering and redoing in your chosen config. Paul.

Thank you to all for another enjoyable day out on Saturday. Late decision to attend this year as it’s no longer a 30 minute walk. Wellpark (which I have enjoyed before) just oozes Glasgow East End. The cut down Belgrove signalbox caught my attention this time. Eastfield was impressive and has just the right feel for the Hawthorn St area. I noticed the EP point machines. Donaghadee was a pre decided draw (family connections to the Ards) and the craic was brilliant. Thanks for inviting/bringing it over. Showed my wife the photos and she commented me that you wouldn’t know there had been a railway embankment through Newtownards these days. I watched Neuberg for quite a while because I was intrigued by the control system (rocrail) and it was only on the second visit I twigged they were the same layout 100 years apart. I liked the steam powered snow cutter. Kettlewell hit my interests spot on - signalled, interlocked (home built mechanical), releases to the ground frames and signalling driving the layout electrics - very well done for a self taught modeller. And a superbly engineered reversible traverser. Effingham Street with its JMRI automation was an extra bonus discussing its technicalities. Balornock Goods was educational, especially thinking ‘what if’ UK HO had caught on. Watching the exhibitor(s) managing the (child) operators on Türland was fun! Brave (!) but good investment in the future of the hobby. Very pleased I made the effort to go. Paul.

Ah. Don’t you know it wears off after precisely 362 days. :-) Paul.

Good to see you today. Now you know who it is when I’m spouting about signalling. And who to slag off when I get it wrong!!! Paul.

You almost can! It’s just a tandem turnout (asymmetric three way) with the following turnouts hard on the crossing nose. Might manage something quite close with some point trimming. Paul.

P.S. Meant to say that ITG’s idea of drawing up a wiring plan from your layout (hopefully knowing how your DCC bus and droppers are routed) would be a good feasibility study. That would give you an idea of how much effort and cost will be involved. If you discover that JMRI does not need continuous train detection, and you go with diode drop detection, Iain’s comment about back to back diodes for undetected areas means either a pair of diodes for each junction area, or, a second bus around the junction areas. Paul.

Still using current sensing, there are some designs that use a transformer design rather than diode drop. Although mine are all on the same polarity, they don’t have to be as there is no electrical connection between the rail and the sensing circuit. Will still require fiddling around under the board to separate wires and route the right ones through the toroid. Thats where it’s easier if the boards separate so they can be upended for working on and ‘too late now’ if they don’t. I use Rr-Cirkits Watchman available from Coastal DCC, supplemented by MERG DTC2 where a multiple of 8 is not cost effective. Train detection in turnout areas is an interesting topic (!). For the commercial systems (iTrain and Traincontroller) you don’t need it to make the programme work, for JMRI you would need to check. (I think I have seen a JMRI discussion that hinted that train detection sections need to be abutting for its logic to work properly.). When comparing, also beware terminology differences - in TC and iTrain a Block is the track between points where the train will stop and may have one or more train detection Sections. In JMRI, Sections are the track between the points which may contain one or more Blocks! I’ll be back with more generic thoughts later. Paul.