KERNOW TODAY

[brianusa]

Wonder where all this means to Tavistock yard?

 

Brian.

[royaloak]

Didn't they look to up to Exmouth junction at one point?

Yes but I think the site had already been sold for redevelopment.

[royaloak]

Wonder where all this means to Tavistock yard?

 

Brian.

Its only used as a staging/splitting point for the Clay Tigers and sees the occasional track machine.

 

Its a shadow of its former self but its still better off than Friary yard.

[marky7890]

Some boxing day shots of a full depot at longrock. All the sidings behind the shed have been lifted due to building work expanding the shed.

 

4 HSTs were in the main sidings, power car pairings were: 43036 + 36140, 43165 + 43169, 43033 + 43139, 43053 + 43193.

A voyager was in the siding behind, and 153361 was in the far siding with 08410 the barrier vehicle and a few spare sleeper coaches.

In the fuel road were: 150129, 150247, 153380, 153318 & 150216

I think another HST was stabled probably inside the shed (shutters were down).

This left no room in the depot so 57605 with 4 day coaches and 5 sleeper coaches was in Slopers Siding near the station.

No trains were stabled at the station.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gary H]

That awful plan that meant we would have had a fit for purpose DMU depot with the required capacity, unlike the present depot which is far too small for the number of units which have to go through every night!

 

The plans for the new depot (on the present site) doesnt have any real extra capacity or flexibility either, and there are some serious operational issues with the plans as posted.

 

Granted, it would have been better for you guys but at the expense of any future rail freight flexibility in the GW zone.

We cant have it all ways.

In a similar vein, the railway has already given up far to much railway land and burnt many bridges ,aka, Exmouth Jnc as a typical case in point, through being to short sighted and having no vision whatso ever for future needs.

[Captain Kernow]

Wonder where all this means to Tavistock yard?

 

Brian.

Not much really, either way.

 

Tavistock Jct is still largely leased on a very long term lease by DB Cargo, not that they now wish to spend any money on it, which has resulted in much of it having to be clipped out of use and not available (which in my view didn't sit very comfortably with the need to provide infrastructure train services etc. to NR, as and when renewals possessions required its use).

[Captain Kernow]

The information came from 2 blokes working for one of the FOC's. they seemed to think that proper hard standing was going in and maybe move a siding across. But when, where and by whom they didn't know.

Interesting.

 

Provided there is no loss of overall siding capacity in the yard, that might make some sense, although I would hazard that it would be done under the terms of the FOC concerned leasing the area of land required for the hard standing from NR (unless it's in connection with the loading/unloading and storage of infrastructure materials - in the absence of any 'real' rail freight, we have to make do with infrastructure traffic, I suppose).

 

I always thought that removal of No. 5 road made no sense, but the whole scheme literally happened so very quickly a few years ago, that there wasn't any real time to re-examine whether we took that one out, or one of the others.

 

If the existing (new) S&C can be used, then fine, but if new S&C is required to (say) reinstate No. 5 road and remove No. 7 road (so as to create a wider hard standing area between the main yard and roads 8 - 10), then that would seem to be an insurmountable cost these days.

[Captain Kernow]

That awful plan that meant we would have had a fit for purpose DMU depot with the required capacity, unlike the present depot which is far too small for the number of units which have to go through every night!

 

The plans for the new depot (on the present site) doesnt have any real extra capacity or flexibility either, and there are some serious operational issues with the plans as posted.

Yes, RoyalOak, that's the one.

 

It was a partisan and entirely one-sided plan, one which purely favoured FGW/GWR and none of the other participants in the rail industry, especially not the FOCs and their customers, or NR and the need to retain future infrastructure traffic capacity.

 

Not sure if people realise that the Whiteball blockade of January 2014 could not have been done, had Riverside Yard not been used. Every single one of it's roads (all refurbished by then) were full at certain times during that blockade.

 

There was a whole lot of corporate posturing and politics behind all this, but the information I was given at the time pointed to FGW assuming they would be allowed to 'take' Riverside Yard. I won't go into too much here, but they were definitely offered the suggestion of having a serious look at Exmouth Jct, well before any commercial property deal went through with developers. However, they only gave Exmouth Jct lip service at the time and blithely sailed on regardless, still convinced in the righteousness of their 'claim' on Riverside (which, as I have said, in reality would have appeared to have been nothing more than an assumption).

 

When opposition to their scheme from other organisations in the rail industry eventually started to take effect, a few months after the news about Riverside Yard being endangered as a proper freight facility broke, my perception was that they belatedly realised that they had better have another, more serious look at Exmouth Jct (which, 12 months on from the initial suggestion, was still just in NR hands), but by then, it was unfortunately too late for anything practical to be done, in part (as I was informed), there were just enough uncertainties regarding getting planning permission, that they felt it wasn't a sound commercial decision. As a result, the 'rebuild in situ' option was chosen for Exeter West Yard (aka 'Olds View'), which in my view was definitely the worst of almost any option.

 

Other locations such as Newton Abbot (Hackney Yard) and Laira were also considered and, essentially, rejected. I think one (largely) unspoken factor was the desire to have the depot the 'right' side of any possible future problems at Dawlish, but additional costs to unit diagrams, crews for shuttling ECS moves etc. also affected such decisions.

Edited December 28, 2016 by Captain Kernow

[royaloak]

Yes, RoyalOak, that's the one.

Thank you for such a thorough reply, again.

 

I wasnt keep on the riverside depot plan because of how detrimental it would have been for freight but a decent sized depot would have been nice.

Edited December 28, 2016 by royaloak

[Captain Kernow]

I wasnt keep on the riverside depot plan because of how detrimental it would have been for freight but a decent sized depot would have been nice.

I agree, and the failure to go to Exmouth Jct was, in my view, a massive, massive missed opportunity.

[royaloak]

I agree, and the failure to go to Exmouth Jct was, in my view, a massive, massive missed opportunity.

Yep, sounds far too familiar doesnt it!

[brianusa]

Where would the Royal Train be stabled overnight if it ever went to Cornwall again? Virtually every suitable siding and branch is gone and the prospect of SBZ yard or Long Rock isn't that appealing.

 

Brian.

[Gary H]

I agree, and the failure to go to Exmouth Jct was, in my view, a massive, massive missed opportunity.

 

I can still remember the words that an  S&T supervisor said to me about 4 years ago when I was involved in clearing that yard of all remaining railway materials .

""They must be bloody mad selling this off, no foresight or vision whatsoever""

He was exactly right.

[Captain Kernow]

I can still remember the words that an  S&T supervisor said to me about 4 years ago when I was involved in clearing that yard of all remaining railway materials .

""They must be bloody mad selling this off, no foresight or vision whatsoever""

He was exactly right.

But that's exactly what the young-centric, supercilious and self-congratulatory suits who hold the power in Swindon and Milton Keynes want. All that corporate back-slapping and self-reassurance that 'they know what they're doing' is one of the things that I definitely don't miss about work.

[Captain Kernow]

Where would the Royal Train be stabled overnight if it ever went to Cornwall again? Virtually every suitable siding and branch is gone and the prospect of SBZ yard or Long Rock isn't that appealing.

 

Brian.

There are places, Brian, but such places tend to have a bit less privacy than in days gone by.

[bubbles2]

A trip to our local, (all be it 17 miles distant from home) national rail station yesterday to put our youngest son Luke's friend Jess on the train after staying with us over the Christmas break, I captured these 2 Bodmin Railway diesels outside the shed at Parkway. 

 

[/url]Bodmin Parkway today, 50042 and 33110. by mailrail, on Flickr">http://Bodmin Parkway today, 50042 and 33110. by mailrail, on Flickr

 

[/url] >Bodmin Parkway today, 50042 and 33110. by mailrail, on Flickr">http://Bodmin Parkway today, 50042 and 33110. by mailrail, on Flickr

 

[/url] >Bodmin Parkway today, 50042 and DMU. by mailrail, on Flickr">http://Bodmin Parkway today, 50042 and DMU. by mailrail, on Flickr

[bubbles2]

Mrs bubbles2 and myself said our goodbyes  to Jess and retired to the warmth of The Signal Box Cafe for a cuppa leaving the young ones on the platform to say their own goodbyes. 

 

http://Bodmin Parkway Signal Box Cafe. by mailrail, on Flickr

 

http://

 

http://Bodmin Parkway Signal Box Cafe. by mailrail, on Flickr

 

[/url]Bodmin Parkway Signal Box Cafe. by mailrail, on Flickr">http://Bodmin Parkway Signal Box Cafe. by mailrail, on Flickr

 

http://Bodmin Parkway Signal Box Cafe. by mailrail, on Flickr

 

http://Pictures displayed inside Bodmin Parkway Signal Box Cafe. by mailrail, on Flickr

 

http://Picture displayed inside Bodmin Parkway Signal Box Cafe. by mailrail, on Flickr

 

http://The 12.08 at Bodmin Parkway, Penzance to Paddington HST, running 4mins late gets away from Bodmin Parkway, taken from the steps of The Signal Box Cafe. by mailrail, on Flickr

 

http://Plymouth to Penzance train at Bodmin Parkway. by mailrail, on Flickr

 

http://Plymouth to Penzance train at Bodmin Parkway. by mailrail, on Flickr

 

[/url]Bodmin Parkway Signal Box Cafe. by mailrail, on Flickr">http://Bodmin Parkway Signal Box Cafe. by mailrail, on Flickr

Edited December 31, 2016 by bubbles2

[bubbles2]

Mrs bubbles2 bought me a metal wall sign which was for sale in The Signal Box Cafe and I had been admiring....

 

[/url]">http://  

 

This reminds me very much of the cover of a Triang trains catalog I was given age 8 or 9 and spent many hours pawing over. Also a Cuneo paintng (spot the mouse) it rather incongruously depicts a class 40 crossing from Devon into Cornwall.

 

[/url]">http://http://s62.photobucket.com/user/Debe2233/media/Luke%20and%20Jess%20Dec%202016/triang_saltash%201_zpsdadkbwys.jpg.html'>  

[The Stationmaster]

There are places, Brian, but such places tend to have a bit less privacy than in days gone by.

 

Although one of them isn't too bad - even if BTP don't like it very much (it involves too much walking for them).

 

I spent a day with BTP back in 1985 carefully reviewing all potential stabling spots down in the west although they weren't keen on my preferred site (see above) and i thought theirs was next to useless although it was operationally sound.  In the event their preference was used and it was not good although operationally it presented no problems.  I am aware of which sites most suit the usual 'Principal Party' for trips down there and I understand that one of them still exists (but I'm not saying where it is) and another could, I would think, probably be fairly easily made available (but I'm not saying where that is either).

[Gwiwer]

Like, Agree and Thanks, Mike.

 

Movements of the Royal Train are shrouded in more mystery than nuclear flasks and with very good reason.  Most staff along the routes used are not even aware of its visit, other than perhaps informally as in "We know it's coming but not when" if a public visit has been made known.  Overnight berthing requires strict secrecy and security.  Some of us are aware of the potential locations but should not be aware of which is to be used nor when unless it is on a "Need to know" basis for the movement in question.

 

1X01 / 5X01 (or what ever they use now, if different) should never appear on RTT nor should anyone with any information on that need to know basis be sharing it with anyone else by any means whatsoever.  

[St Enodoc]

Like, Agree and Thanks, Mike.

 

Movements of the Royal Train are shrouded in more mystery than nuclear flasks and with very good reason.  Most staff along the routes used are not even aware of its visit, other than perhaps informally as in "We know it's coming but not when" if a public visit has been made known.  Overnight berthing requires strict secrecy and security.  Some of us are aware of the potential locations but should not be aware of which is to be used nor when unless it is on a "Need to know" basis for the movement in question.

 

1X01 / 5X01 (or what ever they use now, if different) should never appear on RTT nor should anyone with any information on that need to know basis be sharing it with anyone else by any means whatsoever.  

All true Rick but sometimes the reality is different.

 

Many years ago, as the on-call M&EE officer for the area in which I was working (not Cornwall), I received a phone call at about 0600 one morning telling me that the generator car on the Royal Train had failed and that there was no power to cook the Principal Party's breakfast. What I was supposed to do about that is neither here nor there, but what irked me was that in the following hour or so I got three or four more calls from different people telling me the same thing. Of those, only one of the callers should have had any knowledge that the train was in our area at all.

 

I did create a bit of a stink about that afterwards.

[The Stationmaster]

All true Rick but sometimes the reality is different.

 

Many years ago, as the on-call M&EE officer for the area in which I was working (not Cornwall), I received a phone call at about 0600 one morning telling me that the generator car on the Royal Train had failed and that there was no power to cook the Principal Party's breakfast. What I was supposed to do about that is neither here nor there, but what irked me was that in the following hour or so I got three or four more calls from different people telling me the same thing. Of those, only one of the callers should have had any knowledge that the train was in our area at all.

 

I did create a bit of a stink about that afterwards.

 

It is, as ever on the railway, amazing how information filters its way through the jungle telegraph.  Royal Train (it is only a Royal Train if it is conveying the sovereign) and Special Train (other members of the family, such as the one with interests in the west) notices and diagrams were very strictly controlled in BR days and in later years were divided into sections so that very few people indeed actually knew where the train was going and if they knew where it was going they didn't know where it had come from or on some occasions where it had been in between the starting point and destination.  In addition every copy of anything which was issued was numbered and a record kept so that anything which went missing, or was leaked,  was instantly traceable to, in many cases, a named individual.

 

To be honest I'm a little surprised that anyone should ring an On Call M&EE man about any sort of 'hotel' technical fault on the train as it carried (presumably still does) the staff who were physically responsible for maintaining and looking after it at its home base plus there should have been an M&EE Technical Inspector on the train although his main responsibility is the loco.  I could understand there might in some circumstances be a possible need to call for unusual tools or spares, or maybe even some assisting labour, but that is about it and I doubt any M&EE office would be likely to have the necessary manuals for such things as the generator (the relevant manuals used to be on the train in the Train Foreman's office - fairly close to the medicine bottle emblazoned with a picture of a very well known bird in the days when Stan was the Train Foreman - always very welcoming to his guests was Stan  ).

 

Things could of course go wrong with the running of these trains - I got something of a ticking off when travelling on one (a Royal as it happened) officially as a 'guest' but with the Train Officer for part of the trip and I assured him that we would make up time from a 90 second delay running down from Patchway to Temple Meads; we didn't, oops.  On another occasion - when I was Area Managing - the train arrived at one of my stations where I had duly explained to the Lord Lieutenant where everyone should stand to greet the alighting Principal Party and it stopped right on our mark but the Principal Door was in the wrong place.  Fortunately the PP was a gentleman known for his sense of humour and nothing was said - after he'd gone an 'earnest debate' took place between myself and the Chief Guard's Inspector (who suggested that our tape measures had stretched) but when the train came back to reload later in the day we had time to measure it and found that it was wrong, not the trusty AMO tape measure.  I found out some years later that said gentleman and his HM wife used to have bets with each other about the distance by which they would miss the red carpet when the train stopped ready for her to alight - perhaps some wider BR knowledge was gained of that because in later years (before the practice was discontinued) the more wily among local managers used to have the carpet laid parallel to the platform edge instead of at a right angle to it.

 

All great fun although in my period directly involved with such trains obviously a job that had to be done properly but over the years of dealing with such things from various angles there were some very funny moments.

[St Enodoc]

It is, as ever on the railway, amazing how information filters its way through the jungle telegraph.  Royal Train (it is only a Royal Train if it is conveying the sovereign) and Special Train (other members of the family, such as the one with interests in the west) notices and diagrams were very strictly controlled in BR days and in later years were divided into sections so that very few people indeed actually knew where the train was going and if they knew where it was going they didn't know where it had come from or on some occasions where it had been in between the starting point and destination.  In addition every copy of anything which was issued was numbered and a record kept so that anything which went missing, or was leaked,  was instantly traceable to, in many cases, a named individual.

 

To be honest I'm a little surprised that anyone should ring an On Call M&EE man about any sort of 'hotel' technical fault on the train as it carried (presumably still does) the staff who were physically responsible for maintaining and looking after it at its home base plus there should have been an M&EE Technical Inspector on the train although his main responsibility is the loco.  I could understand there might in some circumstances be a possible need to call for unusual tools or spares, or maybe even some assisting labour, but that is about it and I doubt any M&EE office would be likely to have the necessary manuals for such things as the generator (the relevant manuals used to be on the train in the Train Foreman's office - fairly close to the medicine bottle emblazoned with a picture of a very well known bird in the days when Stan was the Train Foreman - always very welcoming to his guests was Stan  ).

 

Things could of course go wrong with the running of these trains - I got something of a ticking off when travelling on one (a Royal as it happened) officially as a 'guest' but with the Train Officer for part of the trip and I assured him that we would make up time from a 90 second delay running down from Patchway to Temple Meads; we didn't, oops.  On another occasion - when I was Area Managing - the train arrived at one of my stations where I had duly explained to the Lord Lieutenant where everyone should stand to greet the alighting Principal Party and it stopped right on our mark but the Principal Door was in the wrong place.  Fortunately the PP was a gentleman known for his sense of humour and nothing was said - after he'd gone an 'earnest debate' took place between myself and the Chief Guard's Inspector (who suggested that our tape measures had stretched) but when the train came back to reload later in the day we had time to measure it and found that it was wrong, not the trusty AMO tape measure.  I found out some years later that said gentleman and his HM wife used to have bets with each other about the distance by which they would miss the red carpet when the train stopped ready for her to alight - perhaps some wider BR knowledge was gained of that because in later years (before the practice was discontinued) the more wily among local managers used to have the carpet laid parallel to the platform edge instead of at a right angle to it.

 

All great fun although in my period directly involved with such trains obviously a job that had to be done properly but over the years of dealing with such things from various angles there were some very funny moments.

PM sent.

[bubbles2]

With all this interesting discussion about the Royal Train working I thought it was about time we had some pictures, not exactly Kernow Today as it was over 16 years ago but the best I can do.

 

So here are 3 views of 47798 Prince William arriving at Bodmin Parkway conveying HRH The Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh starting a tour of Cornwall with a trip on The Bodmin Steam Railway.

 

[/url]47798 Prince William with the royal train arriving at Bodmin Parkway 15th June 2000. by mailrail, on Flickr">http://47798 Prince William with the royal train arriving at Bodmin Parkway 15th June 2000. by mailrail, on Flickr

 

[/url] >47798 Prince William with the royal train arriving at Bodmin Parkway 15th June 2000. by mailrail, on Flickr">http://47798 Prince William with the royal train arriving at Bodmin Parkway 15th June 2000. by mailrail, on Flickr

 

[/url] >47798 Prince William with the royal train arriving at Bodmin Parkway 15th June 2000. by mailrail, on Flickr">http://47798 Prince William with the royal train arriving at Bodmin Parkway 15th June 2000. by mailrail, on Flickr

[Western Engineman]

The Stationmaster, on 31 Dec 2016 - 11:48, said:

Although one of them isn't too bad - even if BTP don't like it very much (it involves too much walking for them).

 

I spent a day with BTP back in 1985 carefully reviewing all potential stabling spots down in the west although they weren't keen on my preferred site (see above) and i thought theirs was next to useless although it was operationally sound.  In the event their preference was used and it was not good although operationally it presented no problems.  I am aware of which sites most suit the usual 'Principal Party' for trips down there and I understand that one of them still exists (but I'm not saying where it is) and another could, I would think, probably be fairly easily made available (but I'm not saying where that is either).

Ah, memories!  I was in the BTP (now retired) and for a while I was on an explosive / search team and we travelled the length and breath of England and Wales on these and similar duties.

 

I was on this team on the occasion of Her Majesty's visit to Lostwithiel for the 800th anniversary of the town charter. 1989 as I recall? We actually searched and sealed several locations for that visit. The overnight stabling point was, I presume, the one you mentioned. The site would have been chosen by a PolSa who has various non railway criteria to adhere to. 

 

Anyway, security criteria apart, I think it was a lovely picturesque and interesting location. As indeed were the other locations we visited. I found Lostwithiel station and location enchanting. The stabling point, Long Rock depot and other points gave me a close up view of the railways in Cornwall. A night in a hotel in Lostwithiel and a night in a hotel in Penzance with a view of St Michael's Mount was like being on holiday! What had been a passing interest in Cornish railways and the county, now became a love affair!   

 

Bob.

Western Engineman.