johnarcher Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 Snag is that currently 3D printing is not very convenient and horribly expensive as well - just look at the prices for bits on Shapeway. Add up all the components required for say a loco and it's very dear. And where can you easily obtain suitable 3D printed wheels, motors, pick-ups, and so on. Then there is the rather variable quality and the excessive labour intensive work required to eradicate the stratification effect which is more prevalent and obvious in the smaller scales. Currently I don't see it as a viable competitive alternative. G. Agreed, assembling a conventional kit seems a lot more interesting that repetitive surface preparation to smooth down a 3D print - which is one reason why I haven't had anything 3D yet. So this is, I fear, a rather inexpert opinion - what do those who have done it say? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 Agreed, assembling a conventional kit seems a lot more interesting that repetitive surface preparation to smooth down a 3D print - which is one reason why I haven't had anything 3D yet. So this is, I fear, a rather inexpert opinion - what do those who have done it say? I can speak from experience having tried to make 3D printed models/kits purchased from Shapeways and directly from retailers - it is hard, tedious and frustrating work to eradicate the stratification without damaging other details. Below is a pic of a typical N gauge 3D print showing the dreaded 'lines'; I ended up paring off the horns and jumpers and replacing the buffers in an effort to file away the ridges but was not entirely successful. One of the problems is that the material is very hard and brittle. It will break (almost shatter) if dropped (which for some parts I unfortunately have): I'm keeping my fingers crossed that printing resolution will improve, prices fall and access will be easier. Then, along with colour included in the printing, it will be a viable modelling medium. But for me, at the moment and especially in N gauge it is not (unless I'm desperate and prepared for the extra smoothing work). And the snag is there doesn't seen have been much improvement in the last few years that has become readily available. G. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnarcher Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 Thanks, I'd far rather assemble even a less than perfect etched kit than do uninteresting.and repetitive stuff like that, personally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted August 22, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 22, 2016 Snag is that currently 3D printing is not very convenient and horribly expensive as well - just look at the prices for bits on Shapeway. Add up all the components required for say a loco and it's very dear. And where can you easily obtain suitable 3D printed wheels, motors, pick-ups, and so on. Then there is the rather variable quality and the excessive labour intensive work required to eradicate the stratification effect which is more prevalent and obvious in the smaller scales. Currently I don't see it as a viable competitive alternative. G. Did you say why you got an invite to Bachmann Press day? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 47137 Posted August 22, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 22, 2016 Agreed, assembling a conventional kit seems a lot more interesting that repetitive surface preparation to smooth down a 3D print - which is one reason why I haven't had anything 3D yet. So this is, I fear, a rather inexpert opinion - what do those who have done it say? I've had four 3-D printed loco bodies, they came from two kinds of sources - artisans and artists. The first group were ok - the one below from Chris Ward (now retired) needed hardly any cleaning up, I was pleased with the model but passed it on because the rest of my layout was 1:87 scale. I have also had prints from a member of the second group - fabulous looking things but they exploded as soon as I took a craft knife near them, or they were the wrong size to begin with. These models needed a huge amount of surface preparation and never satisfied. Using Shapeways you don't really have a clue what you will get until after you've paid for it ... there are a lot of contributors to Shapeways who draw things out and "you" are the first customer. I'd prefer to use someone who prints their own product, and is prepared to shoulder the responsibility for what you pay for. I expect it will all be better five years from now - meanwhile I've gone back to whitemetal for my next project and to be honest I think it will be more satisfying. - Richard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben racey Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 3D is already better than 5 years ago when I started. The stratification can be down to two things. 1. Whether the designer specified the file correctly-, and 2. The material. Wsf is cheaper, higher quality materials will give you a better finish. Cheers for now. Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Being dependant on RTR to 'build' a layout is not the sole preserve of D&E modellers. Enthusiasts of any genre, including steam outline, can make that choice if they want. Don't forget that RTR extends far beyond just rolling stock and includes items applicable to all enthusiasts such as track, accessories and buildings. The modellers that stand out are those who are able to encompass all modelling facets of our hobby (including scratch-building, kit building, bashing, commissioning, and the careful and appropriate use of RTR/RTP) to create the layout that they want. D&E modellers certainly don't have a greater propensity not to be able to do that (as ably demonstrated by Clive's links). G oh I agree, I was merely pointing out that in my experience, very few diesels are scratch built ( is there a equivalent guy williams for diesels !) even kit bashers and detailers need an underlying rtf model to begin with. As these models get more finely detailed and more expensive it may discourage modifications , hacking up a 100 pound rtf is one thing , hacking up a 250 or more one is another . I just see the rise of very high priced rtr ( commissioned or series ) as problematic , its easy to see a grands worth trundling around a layout in a single train and thats concerning I should state that I am a modern image modeller too. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted August 25, 2016 Author Share Posted August 25, 2016 Might I enquire in what capacity you attended the Bachmann open day? Did you say why you got an invite to Bachmann Press day? Is it bothering you? We know how you love conspiracy theories. I did type an answer at first but it should be for Grahame to say rather than me but I just thought it would wind you up more if I didn't. Suffice to say it's as justifiable reason as I or anyone else was there for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 25, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 25, 2016 Is it bothering you? We know how you love conspiracy theories. I did type an answer at first but it should be for Grahame to say rather than me but I just thought it would wind you up more if I didn't. Suffice to say it's as justifiable reason as I or anyone else was there for. Spoilsport - we all really know about the brown envelopes (do you steam the stamps off?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted August 25, 2016 Author Share Posted August 25, 2016 Spoilsport - we all really know about the brown envelopes (do you steam the stamps off?) It tickles me. It used to be the same when Hornby had any Bilderburg meetings briefings the mere mention of an embargo would start the 'we should be told' ball rolling. I feel sorry for scientists in the 21st century having to explain to the foil helmet brigade that the world is round as they have it ten-times as bad as the conspirators hobby press do. The reality is if you attend any briefing or receive a press release or a model for a review it just means more frantic snapping and key-pressing. But that's what we're paid to do. I'm sure those scientists have got more exciting things to be getting on with than explaining to those who should have listened to Aristotle in the first place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 You never been to the Fens then Andy? Any self-respectfing Fen Tiger just knows the Earth IS flat. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted August 25, 2016 Author Share Posted August 25, 2016 And you have more sky too therefore you must have more weather so why is it drier over there? It doesn't add up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted August 25, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 25, 2016 Look out for Andy sizing up grassy knolls . . . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted August 25, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 25, 2016 Och my invite must have got lost in the post! Shame as I was staying in Hinckley doing product costings too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 You never been to the Fens then Andy? Any self-respectfing Fen Tiger just knows the Earth IS flat. Stewart The Bedford Level Experiment The Truth is Out There ..... To the tune of the Eton Boating Song ("Swing, swing together...") Verse: Grandad, Aunt Lucy and Old Uncle Sam Are my brothers and sisters 'cos that's how I am 'Cos I lives in Whittlesey Where the gene pool is little, see? And they all live over the road Chorus: Yes we all live close together So we can m a k e l o v e easily And our eyes are close together 'Cos we keep it in the family! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 ... I'm sure those scientists have got more exciting things to be getting on with than explaining to those who should have listened to Aristotle in the first place. That's your one deviation from correctness in that post. A primary duty of science is to continually explain, and hear the feedback: and that's on 'everything' even the stuff we think is certain, because in truth all scientific knowledge is contingent. 'Serious' science in the modern epoch has been shown to be significantly in error, and complete theories have been discarded and replaced with successor theories better fitting the available evidence. The best educational moment in my life was when the theory of orogenic uplift was shitcanned - totally - and replaced completely with plate tectonics. I just hope I live long enough to see the global warming theory crash and freeze. And back to model railways... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 And you have more sky too therefore you must have more weather so why is it drier over there? It doesn't add up. More sky to spread same amount of rain over. Simples. Oh, that and the fact that, since at least Roman times, the inhabitants of the fens have understood drainage. Something those living in valleys have evidently yet to grasp. Mind you, let's hope the Environment Agency has finally worked out how to operate the sluices to the Whittlesey Washes. After they took over, it was like living in Somerset ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 And you have more sky too therefore you must have more weather so why is it drier over there? It doesn't add up. 'cos we get drier weather - simples! Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 I just hope I live long enough to see the global warming theory crash and freeze. So I guess you'll not be taking the cruise then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 So I guess you'll not be taking the cruise then. Always preferred warm water cruising myself, my idea of paradise being shorts and a pair of sandals and you are fully dressed. I am not worried about warming, the consequences are manageable. What is forgotten is that the planet is in an ice age with major glaciation due to return fairly shortly. Now that would disaster as all the best agricultural land is then buried under miles of ice, with huge populous areas rendered uninhabitable. Warming the ship up may well be our best bet. The Gaea hypothesis is interesting in this respect, proposing that life modifies its environment to make it more suitable for life. Humans are just as much part of 'natural life of the planet' as any other organism. It is possible that burning carbon is our unconcious environmental improvement strategy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
J C Fenton Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 The Bedford Level Experiment The Truth is Out There ..... To the tune of the Eton Boating Song ("Swing, swing together...") Verse: Grandad, Aunt Lucy and Old Uncle Sam Are my brothers and sisters 'cos that's how I am 'Cos I lives in Whittlesey Where the gene pool is little, see? And they all live over the road Chorus: Yes we all live close together So we can m a k e l o v e easily And our eyes are close together 'Cos we keep it in the family! Hilarious and spot on! Seriously, though, the fens have a beauty, an unconventional beauty, but a beauty nonetheless. If I ever get out of the armchair ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 Hilarious and spot on! Seriously, though, the fens have a beauty, an unconventional beauty, but a beauty nonetheless. If I ever get out of the armchair ... They do. Castle Aching, my WIP project and first layout-build was in fact the second scenario I devised. The first, which may yet be built at least in part, is pure North Cambridgeshire Fen, but with a rather whimsical twist, it must be said, the Isle of Eldernell & Mereport Railway. Think an island in the Fen with March, Chatteris & Whittlesey (or Whittlesea, if arriving by train), with Whittlesey Mere never having been drained, and an extension to an inland port, which is a version of Wisbech. All late Victorian and very silly. What will you do when you get out of your armchair? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmay2002 Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 That's your one deviation from correctness in that post. A primary duty of science is to continually explain, and hear the feedback: and that's on 'everything' even the stuff we think is certain, because in truth all scientific knowledge is contingent. 'Serious' science in the modern epoch has been shown to be significantly in error, and complete theories have been discarded and replaced with successor theories better fitting the available evidence. The best educational moment in my life was when the theory of orogenic uplift was shitcanned - totally - and replaced completely with plate tectonics. I just hope I live long enough to see the global warming theory crash and freeze. And back to model railways... Please. You haven't got a clue about science. It changes because of EVIDENCE not because of mouthy muppets with a vested interest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 That's your one deviation from correctness in that post. A primary duty of science is to continually explain, and hear the feedback: and that's on 'everything' even the stuff we think is certain, because in truth all scientific knowledge is contingent. 'Serious' science in the modern epoch has been shown to be significantly in error, and complete theories have been discarded and replaced with successor theories better fitting the available evidence. The best educational moment in my life was when the theory of orogenic uplift was shitcanned - totally - and replaced completely with plate tectonics. I just hope I live long enough to see the global warming theory crash and freeze... Please. You haven't got a clue about science. It changes because of EVIDENCE not because of mouthy muppets with a vested interest. It's all contingent knowledge, that's a key characterisitic of science; and always being open to a new model that better fits the available evidence is key. I get very uncomfortable with anyone, no matter what their qualification, unable to accept that there may be better model than that currently held. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ian Posted August 29, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 29, 2016 I get very uncomfortable with anyone, no matter what their qualification, unable to accept that there may be better model than that currently held.Which brings us back to model railways... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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