Dapol Class 22

[Grasslands]

No Class 22 was ever Chromatic blue, all the repaints were plain old spec 53 rail blue.

 

I thought mentioning ‘chromatic ‘would raise an eye brow.

 

Did any engines really have a chromatic livery? Most suspected locomotives seem to be high gloss rail blue (or what could be called ‘early blue’) with small yellow panels, which Class 22’s certainly carried.

 

 

Which engines ran in blue with small yellow warning panel,I,m buying a green one but will buy a blue syp if released but looking to avoid both having the same running number.thanks

 

D6303 carried blue and half yellow panels/early blue/chromatic.

 

I am sure I have a record of others somewhere.

 

I find all these early blue’s fascinating.

[Rugd1022]

The four blue / small yellow panel members were D6300, D6303, D6314 and D6327, and all of them were withdrawn whilst carrying this livery.

 

Really looking forward to this one Dapol Dave!

 

Cheers, Nidge

[Pennine MC]

I thought mentioning ‘chromatic ‘would raise an eye brow.

 

Did any engines really have a chromatic livery? Most suspected locomotives seem to be high gloss rail blue (or what could be called ‘early blue’) with small yellow panels, which Class 22’s certainly carried.

 

I certainly grow tired of the oft-repeated notion that all blue/SYP locos or units were chromatic, because they werent; it was only ever a Swindon phenomenon, so couldnt have applied to the 25s or Peaks, for instance. Having said that, I've seen at least one shot of a Western with a noticeably metallic appearance, but it doesnt follow even from that that all SYP hydraulics were chromatic. I doubt the full answer will never be known, unless it's in one of the specialist hydraulic publications

['CHARD]

Having said that, I've seen at least one shot of a Western with a noticeably metallic appearance, but it doesnt follow even from that that all SYP hydraulics were chromatic. I doubt the full answer will never be known, unless it's in one of the specialist hydraulic publications

 

I think I remember seeing it in the Haynes manual: Swindon offered metallic paint in 1966, but the Factory vinyl roof option was only available from 1967, whiplash aerials were a Bath Road trademark, and Rostyle wheels were a cheeky aftermarket extra dreamt-up at Stratford

[stewartingram]

I think I remember seeing it in the Haynes manual: Swindon offered metallic paint in 1966, but the Factory vinyl roof option was only available from 1967, whiplash aerials were a Bath Road trademark, and Rostyle wheels were a cheeky aftermarket extra dreamt-up at Stratford

What - no fluffy dice?

['CHARD]

What - no fluffy dice?

 

Haymarket speciality, that

[Grasslands]

I certainly grow tired of the oft-repeated notion that all blue/SYP locos or units were chromatic, because they werent; it was only ever a Swindon phenomenon, so couldnt have applied to the 25s or Peaks, for instance. Having said that, I've seen at least one shot of a Western with a noticeably metallic appearance, but it doesnt follow even from that that all SYP hydraulics were chromatic. I doubt the full answer will never be known, unless it's in one of the specialist hydraulic publications

 

I would agree. I think I have also seen a few pictures of a rather metallic looking western, but whether this is the camera playing tricks or a new shiny looking paint job is a mystery. I think the word 'chromatic' works for me based on its enigma...what ever the tone or the truth, and being curious about that word 'chromatic' is what inspired my current modelling venture. It would be great if someone was to apply some defintive info on 1960's early blue schemes, it may help us see some more rtr models from this era.

 

If only...

 

None the less, be it a funny blue a normal blue, if it has a small yellow panel I'm in for a second one.

[Downendian]

Which engines ran in blue with small yellow warning panel,I,m buying a green one but will buy a blue syp if released but looking to avoid both having the same running number.thanks

 

 

According to my records BSYP class 22s : D6300, D6303, D6314, D6327. I'd be up for one in this livery too.

D6312 and D6331 were GFYE which is of course the other livery variant.

Nidge mentions the BSYPs earlier in the thread

Thanks for the update DapolDave I was beginning to wonder........

[The Stationmaster]

WTH does 'chromatic' actually mean in this context I wonder?

 

No doubt at all that some of Swindon's early blue repaints came out in a colour which was definitely not bog-standard Rail Blue - it was (or looked) a paler and 'brighter' colour and was very definitely gloss in finish.

 

Now whether standard Rail Blue came out looking different because it was brush painted, or went over a different undercoat or primer, or was mixed with something else to eke out the supply, or whatever I don't know. But it definitely looked a bit different from the blue finishes appearing elsewheres

[class29returns]

Thanks for the info re blue syp engines,good to hear i,m not alone in wanting one,now to annoy Heljan till they bring out the 27 that was also blue with small yellow panels !

[Brinkly]

For a short time I had wondered if Dapol had dropped this as an idea, but am really pleased that they haven't. I think they will be really successful for the company and a great re-entry into the 00 market. At the moment I'm after a plain Green, small yellow panel in green and perhaps a BR Blue with small panels and use them on Horrabridge, but also on a possible joint Boscarn Junction project with a fellow DRAGer!

 

Regards,

 

Nick

 

 

[Gwiwer]

Given the popularity of the south western lines and the not insignificant number of BLT / yard planks about the Class 22 should be very popular. They would also sit comfortably alongside the Teddybears for a layout of the appropriate area or possibly the upcoming Dapol /Kernow Beattie Well tanks.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

I imagine a D63XX would be a very good seller.

 

As regards the shade of blue, many ended their days in an appalling external condition, so the shade of paint might be the least of our worries.....

[Grasslands]

WTH does 'chromatic' actually mean in this context I wonder?

 

No doubt at all that some of Swindon's early blue repaints came out in a colour which was definitely not bog-standard Rail Blue - it was (or looked) a paler and 'brighter' colour and was very definitely gloss in finish.

 

Now whether standard Rail Blue came out looking different because it was brush painted, or went over a different undercoat or primer, or was mixed with something else to eke out the supply, or whatever I don't know. But it definitely looked a bit different from the blue finishes appearing elsewheres

 

It seems that it was originally associated with a possible metallic element to the paint work. Hardly chrome though is it? Could that chrome aspect refer to that shiny element of some of the paint jobs that were seen on locos from this era?

 

Most of the time you see reference in railway literature to ‘chromatic’ or ‘a livery that some have named chromatic’ for the above types and then other times you see the word associated with any western hydraulic finished with half yellow panels and some shade of blue.

 

Intriguing stuff

[Karhedron]

The four blue / small yellow panel members were D6300, D6303, D6314 and D6327, and all of them were withdrawn whilst carrying this livery.

D6300 and D6303 were part of the pilot batch which had a different side grill arrangement than the production version (which the Dapol model represent). Therefore D6314 and D6327 are probably the ones that will be of interest to most modellers.

[Pennine MC]

[WTH does 'chromatic' actually mean in this context I wonder?

]

 

 

It seems that it was originally associated with a possible metallic element to the paint work. Hardly chrome though is it? Could that chrome aspect refer to that shiny element of some of the paint jobs that were seen on locos from this era?

 

From 'The Free Dictionary' (Farlex):

 

a. Relating to colors or color.

b. Relating to color perceived to have a saturation greater than zero.

 

Doesnt help much (in fact as definitions go, it's as vague as buggery ), but does suggest that any 'metallic' connection is a bit of a red herring

[bigherb]

WTH does 'chromatic' actually mean in this context I wonder?

 

From what I can remember from my days paint spraying, chromatic just means a bright colour, nothing to do with metallic, The bright yellows, oranges, blues that started to appear on cars the 70s where described by one manufacturer as chromatic.

[Grasslands]

From what I can remember from my days paint spraying, chromatic just means a bright colour, nothing to do with metallic, The bright yellows, oranges, blues that started to appear on cars the 70s where described by one manufacturer as chromatic.

 

Being curious about the last two posts I have done a quick search on the internet for 'colour saturation' and found a section of wikipedia on colorfulness.

 

Here it states that 'Chroma is the colorfulness relative to the brightness of another color which appears white under similar viewing conditions'

 

I share an office with an art and design team so I will have to investigate this further.

 

Tom

[Rugd1022]

D6300 and D6303 were part of the pilot batch which had a different side grill arrangement than the production version (which the Dapol model represent). Therefore D6314 and D6327 are probably the ones that will be of interest to most modellers.

 

 

Yes I should have mentioned that, many thanks

 

Just to add... the repaints from green into blue / syp for the four (in order as released from Swindon Works) were D6314 Summer 1966, D6300 6th February 1967, D6327 March 1967 and D6303 1st April 1967. Whilst D6303 was still in the Works during March, two other Class 22s were in the process of being repainted blue but with full yellow ends, D6318 and D6325, both of which were released back into traffic in April.

 

Throw in all the livery variations on the Hymeks, Westerns and three types of Warships in the same period and you've got a bit of a minefield!

 

Nidge

['CHARD]

I won't be able to resist having a second (mini) layout when this comes out; St. Audries Quay and it will be a West Somerset/ North Devon hybrid featuring a freight only branch in its last year of operation (there's a bit of a theme developing where my layout subjects are concerned). Thing is I've never completely shaken off my cog-box leanings, and my addiction for all things green-blue transition is nigh incurable....

 

Bring these beauties on! (preferably when I've got spare cash, the Teddy Bear was really a luxury too far, it nearly caused a Forest of Dean layout to appear in the kitchen)

[Rugd1022]

When it does come out Chard it may even kick start a proper layout from me too, even if it is a small one.

 

Looking forward to this one knocking my socks off so to speak

 

Nidge

[Rugd1022]

Can any of you Class 22 followers help by letting me know which of the proposed Dapol models best suits the following class numbers for the 1961 - 1965 period:

 

D6309, D6342 and D6348

 

Thank you

 

Hi Chris,

 

I can't say for certain when D6309 gained it's headcode boxes but suspect it would have been done by 1965, D6342 and D6348 had them fitted from new - as to which model to use as a base, we might have to wait to see the pre-production model as there were two different designs of front end connecting doors on the class. I don't have the definitive info to hand right now but the CAD images look like they are for the D6306 - D6334 batch, I'll have to check this out and come back with the full answer though as there are other detail differences within this batch suc has handrail positions on the can fronts.

Nidge

[2ManySpams]

Hi Chris,

 

I can't say for certain when D6309 gained it's headcode boxes but suspect it would have been done by 1965, D6342 and D6348 had them fitted from new - as to which model to use as a base, we might have to wait to see the pre-production model as there were two different designs of front end connecting doors on the class. I don't have the definitive info to hand right now but the CAD images look like they are for the D6306 - D6334 batch, I'll have to check this out and come back with the full answer though as there are other detail differences within this batch suc has handrail positions on the can fronts.

Nidge

 

Thanks for the response Nidge. It seems that retailers are listing the Dapol Class 22s purely by livery which makes placing an order a bit risky at this stage. Any details you can give on the prototype condition / spec of these locos will be appreciated. Hopefully Dapol Dave will be able to confirm what condition (doors, discs, headcode boxes etc) the various models will be produced in. Should be easy then to match prototype to model!

[Bob Reid]

Having spent a good part of my life part-time (and for a while full time) restoring old (Scottish) hand built bicycles I can at least tell you what "Chromatic" paint was......

 

First of all - what it wasn't - a metallic finish. Chromatic paint finishes were very popular either side of WW2 specifically from around 1937, and later from 1951 on. The finish was originally achieved by applying translucent coloured cellulose paint or lacquer over the steel frame having been first nickel plated. The effect of this was that the colours appeared to have greater depth as the nickel plating shone through the translucent paint and appeared to change in intensity in different light. Post war the big manufacturers like Raleigh adapted the same process for volume production, and produced a similar finish for the masses by painting the translucent colour over a bright silver base (paint) coat instead of the more expensive nickel plating, and later the finish was referred to as "Flamboyant". It's not that difficult to spot the finish, as it appears (no matter what the colour) to have a bright silvery tinge when looked at in different lights and from some angles.

 

Now whether Hymek's or any early blue diesels were painted as such, I have my doubts however I wouldn't be surprised if the name had been adopted by the enthusiasts of the time.....

 

Just to illustrate what the finish looked like - here's an unrestored 1937 machine in (Poly)chromatic Green....

 

 

p.s. And no Gwiwer, I didn't think they nickel plated the Hymeks but fire away if you want to repaint any of yours - I'll send the spec for the painters

[Gwiwer]

Nickel-plated Hymeks? Nice thought but ......................