Hornby Princess Coronation Class (Duchess)

[vitalspark]

Hornby Dublo used to test all their model locomotives before they went out - a job I would have liked to do. There was a shortage of supply when the Hornby Dublo 'Duchess of Atholl' came out and the model was very expensive. The photographs show a comparison between a Hornby Dublo EDL 2 'Duchess of Atholl' dating from 1949 - 1951 and the new Hornby model. My childhood friend had a 'Duchess of Atholl' train set and I thought the livery looked a bit old fashioned compared with the green 'Duchess of Montrose' in the 1955 catalogue just after Hornby Dublo nationalised their model trains. I like the maroon livery now.

 

The pictures of the coaches also show a comparison between the Hornby Dublo tinplate Stanier LMS coaches and the new Hornby coaches. In the 1950s the Hornby Dublo Stanier coaches with their flush glazing and corridor partiions seemed like the last word compared with their LNER coaches with tinplate windows and the Tri-ang plastic LMS coaches. It was only after Palitoy introduced their Stanier coaches and Hornby followed that the Hornby Dublo coaches looked dated when put alongside the later coaches.

Old or new they all have one thing in common...without a degree of weathering they all look like toys.

[t-b-g]

I bet it was a Hornby Black 5!

 

I have given up with the valve gear on these and stuffed them in a drawer until I get round to a decent set of etched.

Now why would I write about a Black 5 on a thread about the new Pacific? Mind you, a friend and firm LNER fan reckoned that real Black 5 locos could have quality control problems.

 

No, it was Sir William that locked up and shed the connecting rod little end.

[vitalspark]

Oh dear sorry to hear that as once it manifests itself it seems to be a continuing issue.

 

My two Black 5s both the latest models have destroyed their gear in dramatic fashion.

 

Both have had replacement valve gear including slide bars and the tolerances were still far too close for comfort despite the fact that I have fitted black plasticard spacer strips behind the front drivers to limit the side movement as they only run on large radius curves.

 

The definitive mod and one that I still have to do is to form a simple motion bracket from plasticard..if you have a Comet etch you can copy it but its an easy and self explanatory shape that sits behind the slide bars and keeps them parallel and at a constant distance from the

 

moving parts.

 

Strangely the Scots & Patriots have been ok and it looks an identical set up.

 

A friend did experience this with earlier Duchesses though.

 

Have to say it was the first thing I checked when unpacking Sir Wiliam but thankfully all was ok but I will keep my eye on it and the first sound of a 'click' and it will get modded.

 

It was a poor show when so many guys had damaged locos through the post but it got me wondering did anyone who pre ordered and received one direct from Hornby experience this or were they all from retailers?

[adb968008]

4 William Stanier available on ebay for £200 each currently...

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-R3555-BR-4-6-2-Sir-William-A-Stanier-F-R-S-Princess-Coronation-Class/182938519785?hash=item2a97fc48e9:g:gyEAAOSwX3FaIRis

[cb900f]

4 William Stanier available on ebay for £200 each currently...

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-R3555-BR-4-6-2-Sir-William-A-Stanier-F-R-S-Princess-Coronation-Class/182938519785?hash=item2a97fc48e9:g:gyEAAOSwX3FaIRis

Beat me to it ,so I've posted it in bargain hunters.

 

Pete

[brushman47544]

4 William Stanier available on ebay for £200 each currently...

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-R3555-BR-4-6-2-Sir-William-A-Stanier-F-R-S-Princess-Coronation-Class/182938519785?hash=item2a97fc48e9:g:gyEAAOSwX3FaIRis

 

From Malta ?!? Doesn't look like a shop https://www.google.pt/maps/place/46+Triq+G.+Galilei,+Il-Mellie%C4%A7a,+Malta/@35.9641432,14.3716785,3a,75y,101.39h,82.11t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1w2a6QBCrqyjpEZG8S_CGw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x130e4c2f142ce72d:0x788cd048a501c5ca!8m2!3d35.9640817!4d14.3717291

 

You do have to wonder to where and how Hornby's model are distributed globally.

[John Tomlinson]

Hornby Dublo used to test all their model locomotives before they went out - a job I would have liked to do. There was a shortage of supply when the Hornby Dublo 'Duchess of Atholl' came out and the model was very expensive. The photographs show a comparison between a Hornby Dublo EDL 2 'Duchess of Atholl' dating from 1949 - 1951 and the new Hornby model. My childhood friend had a 'Duchess of Atholl' train set and I thought the livery looked a bit old fashioned compared with the green 'Duchess of Montrose' in the 1955 catalogue just after Hornby Dublo nationalised their model trains. I like the maroon livery now.

 

The pictures of the coaches also show a comparison between the Hornby Dublo tinplate Stanier LMS coaches and the new Hornby coaches. In the 1950s the Hornby Dublo Stanier coaches with their flush glazing and corridor partiions seemed like the last word compared with their LNER coaches with tinplate windows and the Tri-ang plastic LMS coaches. It was only after Palitoy introduced their Stanier coaches and Hornby followed that the Hornby Dublo coaches looked dated when put alongside the later coaches.

 

One doubts if your new model will look as well, let alone still be running, into its seventh decade!

 

John.

[adb968008]

From Malta ?!? Doesn't look like a shop https://www.google.pt/maps/place/46+Triq+G.+Galilei,+Il-Mellieħa,+Malta/@35.9641432,14.3716785,3a,75y,101.39h,82.11t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1w2a6QBCrqyjpEZG8S_CGw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x130e4c2f142ce72d:0x788cd048a501c5ca!8m2!3d35.9640817!4d14.3717291

 

You do have to wonder to where and how Hornby's model are distributed globally.

It’s reliable, I bought a Peckett from there last year, and something else, I can’t remember what but I recall it was something Hornby that was selling out fast.

 

There Prices tend to be good in time of shortage here, I suspect when they see eBay’s highs on a specific model they decide to put their stock on ebay and clear out.

Edited December 1, 2017 by adb968008

[brushman47544]

It’s reliable, I bought a Peckett from there last year.

 

Thanks, but wasn't questioning that. I was more curious as to where the models went bearing in mind there's an unsatisfied market in the UK and probably lots of them in other countries still without buyers...

[adb968008]

Thanks, but wasn't questioning that. I was more curious as to where the models went bearing in mind there's an unsatisfied market in the UK and probably lots of them in other countries still without buyers...

I know this shop in Hong Kong..

 

Always has stock years after release, doubtless others.

No pecketts though, I think people hired football scouts, gold dusters and bush wildlife hunters to go crawling the undergrowth for them last year.

Edited December 1, 2017 by adb968008

[daltonparva]

4 William Stanier available on ebay for £200 each currently...

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-R3555-BR-4-6-2-Sir-William-A-Stanier-F-R-S-Princess-Coronation-Class/182938519785?hash=item2a97fc48e9:g:gyEAAOSwX3FaIRis

They've sold 2 of them, and stuck another £50 each on the remaining 2.

[Ian Hargrave]

They've sold 2 of them, and stuck another £50 each on the remaining 2.

 Shakesperean drama..."A Stanier,a Stanier a King's ransome for a Stanier !" (Apologies for misquote)...

[Chamby]

Shakesperean drama..."A Stanier,a Stanier a King's ransome for a Stanier !" (Apologies for misquote)...

Yes it’s a misquote... should have been “An Ivatt, an Ivatt, a King’s ransome for an Ivatt !”

 

;-)

[daltonparva]

Shakesperean drama..."A Stanier,a Stanier a King's ransome for a Stanier !" (Apologies for misquote)...

  

Yes it’s a misquote... should have been “An Ivatt, an Ivatt, a King’s ransome for an Ivatt !”

;-)

While we're picking at the nits, you two can't spell either. (Arthur Ransome, king's ransom).

[Silver Sidelines]

Thank you Robin for these images

.. I like the maroon livery now....

I have been discussing Hornby's shades of green and maroon elsewhere.  The prototype paintwork will have long disappeared but the colours used on Hornby Dublo models I guess were a good match at the time and still of use as a reference for to today's manufacturers.

 

Regards

 

Ray

Edited December 1, 2017 by Silver Sidelines

[Riddles]

Hornby website price £189.99, I have noticed this with Rails putting up the price above RRP. They did this with the H class at £135.99 and the Hornby price on their site £119.99.

This seem IMO that they are just cashing in on short runs, big demand, I pay any price to have it.

Putting me off them a bit. 

If this is right and they where asking £225.00 for none sound we have broke the £200.barrier.

To be absolutely fair to Rails I must say that they deserve credit for honouring their early pre-delivery price. When I ordered my SWS back in April they were advertising them at £149.50 which was several pounds less than the other large retailer. After the huge Hornby price-hike I wondered if they might make some excuse to not supply at that price but I need not have worried. It was sent on 2/11/2017 for £153.50 including £4 Parcelforce charge.

 

I don't begrudge them putting up the price for latecomers. If they had still been available at list price, plenty of profiteers would have snapped them up and put them on eBay.

[Ian Hargrave]

   While we're picking at the nits, you two can't spell either. (Arthur Ransome, king's ransom).

 

 

?.....picking nits ? .Bad form to correct grammatical and spelling errors..or am I mistaking it for your sense of humour perhaps ? Quite seriously we do have members who are afflicted with dyslexia and who post regularly .Most of us are aware of this and choose not to draw attention to it for fear of causing them distress and embarrassment,Fortunately,I am not so afflicted Mine is simply a mistake.What motivates you to draw attention to it is known only to you. Good grace and manners cost little effort.

[lochlongside]

To be absolutely fair to Rails I must say that they deserve credit for honouring their early pre-delivery price. When I ordered my SWS back in April they were advertising them at £149.50 which was several pounds less than the other large retailer. After the huge Hornby price-hike I wondered if they might make some excuse to not supply at that price but I need not have worried. It was sent on 2/11/2017 for £153.50 including £4 Parcelforce charge.

 

I don't begrudge them putting up the price for latecomers. If they had still been available at list price, plenty of profiteers would have snapped them up and put them on eBay.

 

I agree. I have had a number of longterm pre-orders with Rails in the past and on the whole I find they are very good at keeping to the early set Hornby predelivery price but it is not unknown on occasion for this to be varied. In the case  of my Pecket order they did up the price of my very early pre-order to more than that of the normal opposition advertised price a month or so before taking delivery - by which time these were sold out on pre-order nearly everywhere. You are then left with the choice of accepting it, turning it down and taking pot-luck on someone somewhere still having it in stock at a reasonable (or any) price,  or learning the (wrong?)  lesson and in the future being morally dishonest and ordering the same (potentially popular) item from more than one supplier and rejecting the higher priced one if it is upped significantly - I haven't tried that yet but I have deliberately spread my custom between suppliers a bit more as a result.

In the case of my pre-ordered Duchess - like yours Rails delivered to the advised early price they set i.e. £149.50 plus p&p - which given the devaluation/inflation over the last couple of years is very creditable (pedant hat on here - note the use of a qualifying adverb as per the news!!) - so post delivery prices probably reflect both popularity/rarity and a reasonable current profit margin and are unfortunately a fact of life.

 

By comparison Bachmannn appear to have negated the practice of new product discounting to a large extent, they just up the price for everyone, however Incidentally and totally off the subject - has anyone else had the advice (not from Rails I hasten to add) - that Dapol have followed Bachmann down the road of limited/no RRP discounting for a specified period after initial release?

[7013]

My Wm Stanier has been fine from the start, I have just put a Digitrains sound project in it. Sounds are very good. 'Chuff' is a bit soft, but upping the volume, and when the loco speeds up it sounds very nice

My ' Hamilton' had a bit of a click on running in Found that the slide bars were fouling the rods, a quick tweak and it now runs beautifully, will chip it soon. Cannot say I am enamoured by the gloss finish, will tone it down a little. Really love these huge beasts.

[vitalspark]

My ' Hamilton' had a bit of a click on running in Found that the slide bars were fouling the rods, a quick tweak and it now runs beautifully

 

I would keep my eye on that..its a common fault on many Hornby locos.

 

Check all rivets in the gear are tight ..the slidebars are completely parallel and true and the front drivers don't have excessive side play.

 

Also if you are running this long wheelbase pacific on tight curves.. which you really shouldn't be..I would be very wary as it may negotiate them but pushing the front axle to its limit of side play will mean very little clearance around the rods.

 

There are accepted mods to prevent this if fit looks like a problem..see post 1268.

 

Dave. 

Edited December 1, 2017 by vitalspark

[kingfisher24]

Finally managed to get one.....

 

There is a slight clicking from the motion, or was, a quick tweak and it disappeared.

 

Gary

[coachmann]

My Wm Stanier has been fine from the start, I have just put a Digitrains sound project in it. Sounds are very good. 'Chuff' is a bit soft, but upping the volume, and when the loco speeds up it sounds very nice

My ' Hamilton' had a bit of a click on running in Found that the slide bars were fouling the rods, a quick tweak and it now runs beautifully, will chip it soon. Cannot say I am enamoured by the gloss finish, will tone it down a little. Really love these huge beasts.

That paragraph intrigued me and so I looked at mine and the finish is no different from that on recently purchased Britannia Class #70007.  It looks like Hornby has been producing a shiner finish for a while.  Putting matt varnish on top of LMS lake/BR maroon kills it completely.

[MGR Hooper!]

Finally managed to get one.....2A6D0716-A166-469F-9B8C-EE7707B7E015.jpeg

 

There is a slight clicking from the motion, or was, a quick tweak and it disappeared.

 

Gary

Mine has a click too, can't seem to find out where it comes from. I'm going to refer to this as a "slider bar" and the lower part or it popped out. I eased it back into place and gave the loco a quick lubricating wherever the instructions said so. It runs brilliantly. The clicking has reduced drastically and only turns up some times but nowhere near as loud as it was .

[MikeParkin65]

My Wm Stanier has been fine from the start, I have just put a Digitrains sound project in it. Sounds are very good. 'Chuff' is a bit soft, but upping the volume, and when the loco speeds up it sounds very nice

My ' Hamilton' had a bit of a click on running in Found that the slide bars were fouling the rods, a quick tweak and it now runs beautifully, will chip it soon. Cannot say I am enamoured by the gloss finish, will tone it down a little. Really love these huge beasts.

I deliberately chose Digitrains project ('Heavy LMS') for its soft chuff. If you look for footage of preserved 46229 or 46233 you will see that they rarely have a loud exhaust even when starting a heavy train. The real noise from a Duchess comes at higher speeds when worked hard. I haven't heard any sound chip successfully mimic that (Duchess or others) but for most of our layouts that shouldn't be an issue if we operate even vaguely realistically. 

[MikeParkin65]

That paragraph intrigued me and so I looked at mine and the finish is no different from that on recently purchased Britannia Class #70007.  It looks like Hornby has been producing a shiner finish for a while.  Putting matt varnish on top of LMS lake/BR maroon kills it completely.

I think Hornby have got 46256 exactly right. Even the gloss finish on 46229 changes rather than improves the maroon. I definitely wouldn't use matt  - it will turn the maroon into the muddy colour of earlier Hornby Stanier BR liveried coaches.