Bachmann Press Day - July 2017

[159220]

 

Back in 2010 a brand new tooled Freightliner Class 70 was £79.50. The latest batch due to arrive in August/September with the new air intakes fitted to the sides are £145 each. That just shows how much things can change in seven years.

 

 

Sorry to single your post out, I mean not to be personal but if I may use as an example.

 

If we are to continue on talking about price increases, please be factual and use RRP set by Bachmann rather than discounted prices set by retailers. As policy around discounting has changed in the last severn years.

 

I bought my Freightliner Class 70, 70001, for £116 plus £4 postage which was at the RRP at the time. Using an average of 2.7% inflation a year set as an average by the Bank of England inflation calculator to the last full year of 2016 - see: http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/education/Pages/resources/inflationtools/calculator/default.aspx.

 

The RRP of the Freightliner Class 70 in 2016 prices is now at £136.49.

 

We now need to estimate how much inflation shall be this year. Looking at the CPI index, here: https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices#timeseries. the latest stats for May 2017 are 2.9% thus we can add a further £3.96 to the 2010 price.

 

This totals £140.45 for a 2017 RRP price of the Freightliner Class 70 alone. 

 

Now it might of gone un-noticed that a slight majority of the country decided to vote to leave our biggest market, the EU. This has added at least 15% cost which puts the RRP up to £161.51. 

 

This does not account for the increase in Chinese labour over severn year period, even without the threat of leaving the EU, we would be looking at that 2010 Freightliner Class 70 in a circa £165 RRP range. 

 

Also important to note the Class 70/8 has had adjustments to the original tooling and additional tooling. This shall have a cost of both R&D and Tooling.

 

Seeing as the new 2017 Freightliner Class 70 is has a listed RRP at £169.95 I would argue that such a price is perfectly inline with inflation, Chinese labour growth and allowing a referendum. 

 

If you do not like the unequivocal fact that price only goes up in a neoliberal economy, there are some realistic alternatives and some fantasy ones. Firstly, use your vote in an informed way to bring a real change in politics, voting for MPs and parties who are economically progressive and aim to drive wage up higher than inflation. Secondly, move to a country under a different financial political philosophy - only true communist places left are say Cuba, certainly nice weather! Thirdly, every time anyone feels like complaining about price rises on models, put a £1 coin in a piggy jar - before you know you shall have hundreds of pounds to spend on your new models. 

 

One more thing, I could say I bought my Hornby FGW HST back in 2008 for £80 and the last one I bought in 2016 was for £220. That comparisons means nothing if not based on a retail price to compare the actual like for like increase. (Point being, Bachmann is not singularly the only manufacturer with significant price increases. My other hobby, sailing, you used to be able to buy a boat for 20k, now its 200k. It is a hobby, to enjoy a life, not a necessity to sustain life).

[The Johnster]

94xx still in design stage, then.  Well, that's a disappointment, but I can live with it.  The SECR coaches look magnificent, hard to believe such a standard can be achieved in an rtr model, I cannot see that the faux teak livery, which looked pretty awful on real coaches from what I can see of it, could have been done better and it will be very considerably improved by being toned down with light weathering, and the mk2s look the part.  But it is, tbh, the 94xx that is my main point of interest from Baccy at the moment, though I might be up for a 116 dmu if they decide to make one eventually as an alternative to the rather hackneyed and limited range 117.  I really think they've missed a trick here; 116 were more numerous, more widespread, and are more easily converted to other types than 117, not that the old Lima workhorse doesn't need updating.

 

There may be an opening here for a manufacturer who can develop a credible 94xx and get it to market quickly; I would estimate Baccy's to be 3 years away at least, and to come in at around £!10 in today's money.  And the same chassis will do for a 2251 with bigger wheels.

94xx still in design stage, then.  Well, that's a disappointment, but I can live with it.  The SECR coaches look magnificent, hard to believe such a standard can be achieved in an rtr model, I cannot see that the faux teak livery, which looked pretty awful on real coaches from what I can see of it, could have been done better and it will be very considerably improved by being toned down with light weathering, and the mk2s look the part.  But it is, tbh, the 94xx that is my main point of interest from Baccy at the moment, though I might be up for a 116 dmu if they decide to make one eventually as an alternative to the rather hackneyed and limited range 117.  I really think they've missed a trick here; 116 were more numerous, more widespread, and are more easily converted to other types than 117, not that the old Lima workhorse doesn't need updating.

 

There may be an opening here for a manufacturer who can develop a credible 94xx and get it to market quickly; I would estimate Baccy's to be 3 years away at least, and to come in at around £!10 in today's money.  And the same chassis will do for a 2251 with bigger wheels.

94xx still in design stage, then.  Well, that's a disappointment, but I can live with it.  The SECR coaches look magnificent, hard to believe such a standard can be achieved in an rtr model, I cannot see that the faux teak livery, which looked pretty awful on real coaches from what I can see of it, could have been done better and it will be very considerably improved by being toned down with light weathering, and the mk2s look the part.  But it is, tbh, the 94xx that is my main point of interest from Baccy at the moment, though I might be up for a 116 dmu if they decide to make one eventually as an alternative to the rather hackneyed and limited range 117.  I really think they've missed a trick here; 116 were more numerous, more widespread, and are more easily converted to other types than 117, not that the old Lima workhorse doesn't need updating.

 

There may be an opening here for a manufacturer who can develop a credible 94xx and get it to market quickly; I would estimate Baccy's to be 3 years away at least, and to come in at around £!10 in today's money.  And the same chassis will do for a 2251 with bigger wheels.

94xx still in design stage, then.  Well, that's a disappointment, but I can live with it.  The SECR coaches look magnificent, hard to believe such a standard can be achieved in an rtr model, I cannot see that the faux teak livery, which looked pretty awful on real coaches from what I can see of it, could have been done better and it will be very considerably improved by being toned down with light weathering, and the mk2s look the part.  But it is, tbh, the 94xx that is my main point of interest from Baccy at the moment, though I might be up for a 116 dmu if they decide to make one eventually as an alternative to the rather hackneyed and limited range 117.  I really think they've missed a trick here; 116 were more numerous, more widespread, and are more easily converted to other types than 117, not that the old Lima workhorse doesn't need updating.

 

There may be an opening here for a manufacturer who can develop a credible 94xx and get it to market quickly; I would estimate Baccy's to be 3 years away at least, and to come in at around £!10 in today's money.  And the same chassis will do for a 2251 with bigger wheels.

 

I'll say that again...

[stewartingram]

I've said it before, but still worth thinking about.

 

Go back to the 1950s, look at average income. I'm not bothering to look it up, but I reckon by the early 1960s, £10/week was good for a working man? Someone will put that right.

What was available RTR? Not much more than HD and Triang - both basically toys. HD loco around a fiver, Triang less?

Neither very "accurate" as we define it nowadays. HD was built to last though, good solid build. Triang, more plastic, & one piece generic bodies on a "default" chassis. By default, I mean built from a small range of stock parts, selected to suit the loco in question rather than being accurate.

How big were the ranges? We were lucky to get 1 new HD per year (or two or three years). Triang? 1 per year, they even stretched to a couple some years!

 

Then look at the wages today. And the number of models being offered (admittedly in small runs). But what about the accuracy etc?

 

Have we ever had it so good - and are they really expensive?

 

Stewart

Edited July 10, 2017 by stewartingram

[GreenGiraffe22]

As a relatively recent returnee, I know what you mean, but, you get what you pay for! A period of mental adjustment was required.

 

You could do what I did; ever since I turned to pre-Grouping, I found I saved a fortune in RTR purchases!

Yeah took me a while to accept the pricing, but as you say, you get what you pay for, for that reason I am expecting nothing but perfection from Bachmann 's Birdcages. Thank goodness they're only a set of 3

 

 

And yeah keeping to a time frame and area (although I've been making some exceptions for ex LSWR stuff on ex SECR/LBSCR rails) certainly does help control spending.

[Ian J.]

Wages today are a mixed bag. I go from having been on the dole for years, to doing reasonably well in temp work (but still with a lot of uncertainty over hours and length of contract), and I will end up back on the dole again. I still don't have a place I can call home, and I'm not likely to get one in the current climate and with the certainty of being back on the dole at some point in the not too distant future I'm never going to get a landlord to let to me. All this means that my income is not considerable when one considers it has to stretch to cover at least some of the dole down time.

 

Others are in similar positions - precarious work with no guarantee of hours, and sometimes not much above minimum wage. These are not the kinds of earnings that can be used for hobbies. So in that sense, it's welcome back to the 1950s (and in some ways, the 1930s, or even the Victorian era).

 

And I still say I'd rather have one good quality model over two or three mediocre ones.

Edited July 10, 2017 by Ian J.

[JSpencer]

I, like many, find £60+ per coach a lot. But in a good way, this has encouraged me to pick up a knife, brush and soldering iron and have a go with Airfix, Lima and Railroad offerings. Opening a coach up and putting passengers in was almost a part of buying it.

I wonder the market that these models are aimed at, most who are prepared to put that kind of money into their hobby will probably possess the skills to add details and improvements that the price tag adds. Of course there are exceptions to this and this only applies to models that follow a previous offering (mk2s, cl90)

The bulk of my fleet of modern RTR were brought for less than £20 each, this is mostly going back a few years and buying mostly Items reduced to clear.

The exceptions being lighted Pullmans (of which I have far too many but most were in the £25 to £40 mark) and the odd few more recent releases of coach stock.

The Birdcages of course will see me buying 6 in a short space of time all more than £50 each. I have had to review what is coming up soon and a couple of other items are going to be sacrificed. Before I brought anything southern, now it will be specifically South East only.

 

The main reason for not doing my own is lack of time. I am dragging my heals slowly over an O1 kit as we speak.

[farren]

Oh I'm ever so sorry didn't realise that I had click on the now some what tedious thread of 'Why? & Why the price rises'. I'll go and find a interesting topic rather than a whinge fast.

 

PS

 

Pound in the jar is a good idea.

[Dunsignalling]

The big difference is that in the early 1960s there were only two or three new locos per year. For me, when launched, a Dublo Barnstaple represented over nine months pocket money! It was over half-a-week's take-home for my dad, too, which is why my trains were Tri-ang. 

 

In real terms, today's prices aren't wildly different when adjusted for inflation - there's just so much new stuff on offer that only the truly loaded can afford one of everything.

 

Fortunately, though I'm now retired, the bulk/regular purchases stimulated by the Bachmann Mk1s, Hornby Pullmans and Maunsells, not to mention the (then more frequent) releases of Bulleid Pacifics all came along whilst I was still working and in receipt of a significant amount of overtime - vacancies arising ahead of known impending box closures generated more than I wanted most weeks! 

 

Now the recent LSWR/SR/BR glut O2,700,S15 and Adams Radial has passed its peak (nothing from Bachmann other than PMVs and wagons be it noted, though they have covered some of my side-interests), I have relatively few impending pre-orders, though they still add up to a good couple of grand, all told. Fortunately they shouldn't all arrive at once though my "war chest", built up in the few sparse years preceding the aforementioned glut, means it wouldn't matter if they did.

 

I really do recommend putting aside a regular sum against future releases, which nowadays often take long enough to arrive after announcement to allow the cost to be covered up front.

 

If you are expecting a £150 loco in a years time, a fiver a week into the pot more than does the job even allowing for any price rises. That's less than a couple of pints at todays prices and I drink less nowadays, too.   

 

John

Edited July 10, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[County of Yorkshire]

Some better studio snaps showing the whole coaches of the Thompson 'Teak' range from Bachmann.

 

34-460.LS.jpg

 

 

Thanks for these Andy. Am I right in saying the Brake Third (second one down) is in very early BR livery with an E-prefix to the number and no 'LNER'. The other four show with LNER - is that correct? 

 

CoY

[rob D2]

Yes there are prices rises....and we can see the reasons.

 

I think everyone has a threshold above which they are reluctant to spend.

 

For Bachmann that was the polybulk wagons and the inspection coach - I brought these on a whim as I may, in the future, have suitable layouts to run them on.

 

Which is rare now as I can't afford to speculatively acquire stuff for possible future use in general. Which is a catch 22 as it often backfires with batch production I find what I then need is no longer available .

[Mike Storey]

Really good to see further innovation from Bachmann, despite gloom-mongering, and a surprisingly broad range appearing.

 

However, unless I have missed it above, was any mention made of the 4 BEP please?

[Oldddudders]

I, like many, find £60+ per coach a lot.

 

£60 is still £60 in 2017, I accept that. But many youngsters regard that as the cost of a fairly average weekend night out.  But what sort of coach can you buy for that?

 

As it happens I have just picked up a number of handbuilt - from metal kits - Bulleid coaches, with signatures from Derek Lawrence (builder) and our own RMweb Coachmann (painter). Two catering vehicles cost me £60 each, and now a 4-car set for just £245. All on ebay. Works of model railway art from professional people. I admit I had to stretch to £75 each for the 5-car set he also offered. These will help balance the large number of Hornby Maunsells I have picked up, many remaindered but new, from the same auction site over the years. As others have said, ebay and other buying opportunities mean you can pick up bargains. But know what you want, know your price limit, and set up searches accordingly.

 

I am also slightly concerned at the bald statement that fitting DCC to Lima and similar early models is difficult because there is no socket. How do people think DCC got to where it is today? In the early years there were never sockets in anything! If you can solder wires you can install DCC to virtually any locomotive. Decoders without plugs may be a little cheaper, too! And I am not a brass-kit builder, or any sort of techie. So DCC can be relatively affordable, too.

 

Some of us retired folk from the golden generation when jobs were plentiful and pensions assured are very lucky - we know that. But that doesn't stop us from seeking and finding bargains too.  

[JSpencer]

I am also slightly concerned at the bald statement that fitting DCC to Lima and similar early models is difficult because there is no socket. How do people think DCC got to where it is today? In the early years there were never sockets in anything! If you can solder wires you can install DCC to virtually any locomotive. Decoders without plugs may be a little cheaper, too! And I am not a brass-kit builder, or any sort of techie. So DCC can be relatively affordable, too.

 

 

In the past, we used to have to build kits to fill loco gaps. I did several in the 1990s, P2, Turbomotive and W1 were the biggest.

 

These models cost at least twice as much as any RTR, you had to build and paint them yourselves to avoid additional costs. To have someone else build it would have cost thrice as much.

 

Todays RTR have caught (and maybe overtaken) the price of buying a kit and stuff needed to complete it. Yet it is just as fine in detail (if not more so, since Bachmann can out research most cottage individuals),  will cope with 2nd radius curves, runs really well and is perfectly decorated out of the box. If it has a fault, you can replace it. If you build the kit badly, you cannot!

 

The big three kit locos I built above will not run on anything less than 3ft radius (even here they struggle and 4ft is best), they were always limited to the Chatham club layout for running with its generous curves.

The smaller Q class and Q1 (SR types) I built can get down to 2ft radius although required work to do so.

 

Today RTR makes are replacing many kit makers in niche items, so while Bachmann has new small RTR makers to contend with, these replace older white metal kit manufacturers whom classicly never had Bachmann's overheads either (and often lack the sales & Support skills of Bachmann too -- some kit makers are easy to contact with, others you have to chase repeatedly for several months just to find out if you can buy a kit from them!).

 

Personally I feel that people grow up more and more shunning traditional craft skills and going for more intellectual jobs. So while I grew up, making do with my small fleet of locos, doing things by hand, others will not have those skills and - more importantly - lack the time to acquire them (I lack time to build anything these days!). So yes RTR means RTR.

 

While Lima is cheap, a newcomer wanting easy DCC conversion would be better off going for Hornby Railroad items instead. They are more expensive than a second hand lima but run better and can be easily converted. Or they can get skills to solder an 8 pin DCC chip OR they avoid DCC altogether.

[Phil Parker]

In the past, we used to have to build kits to fill loco gaps. I did several in the 1990s, P2, Turbomotive and W1 were the biggest.

 

These models cost at least twice as much as any RTR, you had to build and paint them yourselves to avoid additional costs. To have someone else build it would have cost thrice as much.

 

 

So while I grew up, making do with my small fleet of locos, doing things by hand, others will not have those skills and - more importantly - lack the time to acquire them (I lack time to build anything these days!). So yes RTR means RTR.

 

I've been building kits since the 1990s and even then a small OO shunter would cost £60 to £80 in kits and parts. Far more than even a large RTR engine. I suspect this has insulated me from price rises a bit, it's only recently that prices for small locos have overtaken the cost of the kit. Maybe it's just what you get used to? Mind you, my Craftsman 07 shunter, fitted with a Posterscap motor in a fit of flushness probably cost approaching the price of the Heljan version!

 

I dispute the lack of time to aquire skills though. It's more a lack of will - if you really want to do something, be it run a marathon or solder an etched kit together, then you find the time somehow. With the ever better quality RTR on offer though, the need (and therefore desire) to build that kit will naturally diminish. That's perfectly understandable. I'm not sure I would build the same models now that I did years ago. 

[grahame]

I dispute the lack of time to aquire skills though. It's more a lack of will - if you really want to do something, be it run a marathon or solder an etched kit together, then you find the time somehow. 

 

Yep, I agree. You only have a lack of time if you choose to do other things with your time. I've noticed that people spend a lot of time fiddling with their phones and surfing the internet (perhaps looking for bargain RTR models) but both are notorious time thiefs.

 

G.

[The Johnster]

Yep, I agree. You only have a lack of time if you choose to do other things with your time. I've noticed that people spend a lot of time fiddling with their phones and surfing the internet (perhaps looking for bargain RTR models) but both are notorious time thiefs.

 

G.

 

I spend too much time on a model railway website forum.

[grahame]

I spend too much time on a model railway website forum.

 

So a simple solution. Halve the time you spend on forums and crack on with some modelling.

 

You'll have a lot of time to develop and hone skills and be able to build all those models you want that aren't produced RTR.

 

G.

[Kelly]

I've been building kits since the 1990s and even then a small OO shunter would cost £60 to £80 in kits and parts. Far more than even a large RTR engine. I suspect this has insulated me from price rises a bit, it's only recently that prices for small locos have overtaken the cost of the kit. Maybe it's just what you get used to? Mind you, my Craftsman 07 shunter, fitted with a Posterscap motor in a fit of flushness probably cost approaching the price of the Heljan version!

 

I dispute the lack of time to aquire skills though. It's more a lack of will - if you really want to do something, be it run a marathon or solder an etched kit together, then you find the time somehow. With the ever better quality RTR on offer though, the need (and therefore desire) to build that kit will naturally diminish. That's perfectly understandable. I'm not sure I would build the same models now that I did years ago. 

 

Kit costs can soon easily mount up, but if you're modelling in finer gauges can be easier than converting to some degree (or at least if you're capable look better).

 

As for time, there is time and then there is 'usable time', at least I find it to be so.

[ThaneofFife]

Couldn't agree more.

 

Luckily I was entering the hobby with modern image locos and rolling stock a few years ago. By this point I have had the opportunity to acquire several Bachmann diesel locos for just £70 or £80 brand new. This is now a distant memory and I feel sorry for those just starting out now trying to buy locos and stock. Personally if that was me now trying to afford some of these locos and wagons I would barely be able to buy anything. Standard diesel locos are now nearly £130. I agree that this is a massive barrier for younger people to enter the hobby because they most likely have not got the money to spend £130 on one standard loco.

 

Really it's a sad sign of the times because if things keep going the way they are with regards to increased prices, which I know has to happen in order for manufacturers to make profit, it will most likely mean that younger people have to either stop purchasing model railway goods or can't even consider entering the hobby in the first place.

 

I'm not complaining about the increase in prices because I know why the prices have increased. I simply feel sorry for and sympathise with people my age and younger about the costs of this hobby.

 

Youre assuming they must buy brand new but why when there is healthy second hand market out there............

[The Johnster]

On the subject of kits, or for that matter scratchbuilding, I am quite willing to have a go, having been moderately successful in the past at whitemetal kits with foldup chassis; having done it provides a great amount of confidence.  But there is no need; all the needs of my 50s South Wales 4mm BLT can be provided from the rtr models either available or to become available.  As these models are both cheaper than, and at least as detailed and smooth running as, anything I could make from a kit or even the very best quality scratch even if I had the time and my eyesight and steadiness of hand had not gone a bit wobbly, it's a no brainer!

 

I may at some time in the future find time to have a go at a Collett 31xx large prairie, and intend one day to have a crack at scratchbuilding a matchboarded auto trailer, diagram Z, A7, or A9.  I have hopes that Dapol will apply the shrink ray to make a 4mm dagram N trailer from their excellent ex-Lionheart 7mm model, as i reckon the panelling on this would be too much for me.  As I see no indication of any suitable Collett or Hawksworth non-corridor stock on the rtr horizon, kits will be my ultimate answer here as well.  I built kits in the olden days because there was no other way of obtaining models of those items, and my attitude to them is no different now, really; I have to prioritise finishing off the layout's basic form and bringing some of the older stock up to scratch first!  Kits are time consuming, fraught with the knowledge that if you mess them up you cannot send them back for a replacement (not that you can with rtr if you've messed it up, but you are much less likely to in the first place), and a lot more expensive.

 

I suppose I am lucky in that I know that I possess the skill to be able to build a reasonably well designed kit, and that should this be necessary i will be able to do it, but the rtr cornucopia seems to have meant that kits are becoming a thing of the past, even those that are of items not covered by rtr.  Comet seem to be the only manufacturer flourishing in this field, and at least can satisfy pretty much all of my potential needs.  I do not agree with the observation that modern modellers are too busy on mobile phones to learn the skills needed to build kits or from scratch; a minority do just that, and to a very high standard, but it was always a minority that did that anyway.  More people these days seem to be taking on oddball challenges where everything is kit or scratchbuilt, such as Liverpool Overhead Railway or pre 1st World War Taff Vale, presumably because rtr does not offer the challenge it did 40 or 50 years ago.  Nowadays, almost anyone with a moderate degree of skill and staedyness of hand can make a fair fist of more or less any post-nationalisation layout from their own ingenuity and rtr stuff.  I think this is A Good Thing.

[The Johnster]

Youre assuming they must buy brand new but why when there is healthy second hand market out there............

And even modern image can encompass BLTs, which require smaller, cheaper, locos and less stock.  I feel sorry for anyone that wants to build Clapham Junction and can't afford it, but you have to cut your cloth according to it's width.  I feel that the trend for TMD layouts, heavy on expensive locos, is not helpful in this regard, but a shunting problem, with one or two locos and a handful of stock, like Vopak Chemicals, is inspirational, and the way impecunious youngsters should be pointed...

[Kelly]

And even modern image can encompass BLTs, which require smaller, cheaper, locos and less stock.  I feel sorry for anyone that wants to build Clapham Junction and can't afford it, but you have to cut your cloth according to it's width.  I feel that the trend for TMD layouts, heavy on expensive locos, is not helpful in this regard, but a shunting problem, with one or two locos and a handful of stock, like Vopak Chemicals, is inspirational, and the way impecunious youngsters should be pointed...

 

This has to some extent been the direction I've taken. I started planning a big 15ft+ layout (designed to be modular however), but then switched to a smaller 9ftx9ft (including storage) layout, which will mostly use EMUs, both RTR and a fair amount of kit built and kit-bashed units.

 

A modest budget can still build a big layout, but you just have to plan your purchases and spread it over a longer time frame and accept it won't be built in a year, but more likely 5 or more perhaps.

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

Youre assuming they must buy brand new but why when there is healthy second hand market out there............

 

True, that is making an assumption that younger people entering the hobby buy new.

 

But if you are wanting the latest liveries and releases you have to buy brand new models. For example take Class 66s. If you want the modern/new liveries eg Freightliner Powerhaul and DRS Revised you have to buy brand new which in that case costs around £130 per model. However if you want original EWS liveried 66s or the original GBRF livery these can be bought on Ebay and off of other sites, second hand for around £70/£80. It largely depends on the era that you want to model and if you are happy buying the older liveries. I might be in a minority but I do prefer some of the more modern liveries as opposed to the earlier liveries on diesel locos. In this case you have to buy brand new models.

 

It's good however that their is a cheaper market out their for people who want to buy earlier locos and earlier liveries which have been produced several years ago. That's the good thing about this hobby, their is something for everyone. Although if you do want to buy the latest releases you do have to buy brand new locos and pay higher prices.

 

Again I'm not complaining about price increases. I'm just commenting for discussion purposes.

[Roy Langridge]

True, that is making an assumption that younger people entering the hobby buy new.

 

But if you are wanting the latest liveries and releases you have to buy brand new models. For example take Class 66s. If you want the modern/new liveries eg Freightliner Powerhaul and DRS Revised you have to buy brand new which in that case costs around £130 per model. However if you want original EWS liveried 66s or the original GBRF livery these can be bought on Ebay and off of other sites, second hand for around £70/£80. It largely depends on the era that you want to model and if you are happy buying the older liveries. I might be in a minority but I do prefer some of the more modern liveries as opposed to the earlier liveries on diesel locos. In this case you have to buy brand new models.

 

It's good however that their is a cheaper market out their for people who want to buy earlier locos and earlier liveries which have been produced several years ago. That's the good thing about this hobby, their is something for everyone. Although if you do want to buy the latest releases you do have to buy brand new locos and pay higher prices.

 

Again I'm not complaining about price increases. I'm just commenting for discussion purposes.

 

Or you can be a young modeller and learn to repaint them? That is what I did as a young modeller. No class 26 available, I built one out of a 33. No Scotrail 47s available? I repainted a Hornby 47. 

 

Edit: I will never criticise collectors, as I have said before I think everybody is a closet collector even if they also model. But for young people such projects with second hand stuff is an ideal entry to modelling.

 

​Roy

Edited July 11, 2017 by Roy Langridge

[grahame]

True, that is making an assumption that younger people entering the hobby buy new.

 

But if you are wanting the latest liveries and releases you have to buy brand new models. 

 

Nope, you can buy cheap secondhand ones and then paint them into the livery you want. In fact it is always advisable to practice and hone ones painting skills on cheap bodies. And it will introduce beginners to a little modelling and constructional activity.

 

G.