Bachmann Press Day - July 2017

[drmditch]

Thank you Andy for the information and the pictures. I am sure that the debate about the plastic rendition of steel painted to imitate teak will continue for as long as people's eyes and memories differ!

 

Please may I ask if there was any news about the re-tooled V2, which I think has been in progress for some time?

[medium61]

Nope, you can buy cheap secondhand ones and then paint them into the livery you want. In fact it is always advisable to practice and hone ones painting skills on cheap bodies. And it will introduce beginners to a little modelling and constructional activity.

 

G.

I agree with Grahame, in the early1960's I discovered 'Kitmaster Mk1's' and assembled quite a few of them. I painted them (usually Chocolate & Cream) and a shop in Chester asked if he could see what I had done. Next time I went there (it was the shop I bought the kits from) and he asked how many I had built and I told him. His answer was he had a buyer for them and would I like to sell them, stating there were no Choc & Creams available at that time and that he could sell as many as I could produce, so I sold them all to him and never returned to Kit building. My weakness at that time was lining out, unlike our veritable 'master' Coachman.

The dealer too suggested I buy a lining pen and learn how to use it. Before deciding to do this my life suddenly changed as I moved away from home and concentrated on my new Job. Kitmaster seemed to be quite good to me and I see they are still sold on E-bay. Now I can afford to buy what I want (and perhaps indulge too much). But, at that time I did not complain as I never visualised my self succeeding to the extent I have, but enjoyed building the kits and other items. I stayed away from model railways for 30 odd years. Such is life.

 

Andy

[coachmann]

......  More people these days seem to be taking on oddball challenges where everything is kit or scratchbuilt, such as Liverpool Overhead Railway or pre 1st World War Taff Vale, presumably because rtr does not offer the challenge it did 40 or 50 years ago.  ......

Right now, my hip and one knee are giving me jip after spending an hour or so soldering scores of wires to connections underneath a baseboard. So to me, building even a simple layout is demanding enough without looking for oddball challenges ha ha. Regardless of railway company and period, the track, wiring, signalling, building and scenery can take years to complete. Adding to that the construction of a couple of locomotives and some items of rolling stock and those years become a good part of ones lifetime.  RTR speeds things up of course and I welcome it with both piggy banks...

Edited July 11, 2017 by coachmann

[Ravenser]

£60 is still £60 in 2017, I accept that. But many youngsters regard that as the cost of a fairly average weekend night out.  But what sort of coach can you buy for that?

 

........

 

I am also slightly concerned at the bald statement that fitting DCC to Lima and similar early models is difficult because there is no socket. How do people think DCC got to where it is today? In the early years there were never sockets in anything! If you can solder wires you can install DCC to virtually any locomotive. Decoders without plugs may be a little cheaper, too! And I am not a brass-kit builder, or any sort of techie. So DCC can be relatively affordable, too.

 

 

 

My impression is that many teenagers would regard £60 as a cheap night out. The taxi  home from the club in the small hours may well cost more than that

 

And as for the proposition that a Lima 37 can't be converted to DCC - nonsense!. I am the happy owner of 37 688 , purchased from the DEMU Showcase secondhand stall for £18 because it ran well - never mind the noise (the real thing's not quiet) it was a smooth slow running example in the right livery with the correct number for an intended project. A TCS MC2 was a very simple hard-wired installation, it's collected Shawplan cab windscreen and laserglaze, roof fan and etched nameplates/depot symbols , replacement buffers, some extra weight and weathering and looks very much the part - it doesn't have to pull more that two coaches. Total cost about £60 - which is probably what it would have cost to do the same thing 20 years ago

 

(The whole 4mm Bachmann /Vitrains/etc 37 fur fight of a decade ago got so venomously partisan and aggressive that I more or less swore I would never buy a new generation 37 model - I might be interested in buying a model engine but I'm not interested in buying into a faction and a feud as well. There is more to life and railways than Class 37)

[Kelly]

My impression is that many teenagers would regard £60 as a cheap night out. The taxi  home from the club in the small hours may well cost more than that

 

And as for the proposition that a Lima 37 can't be converted to DCC - nonsense!. I am the happy owner of 37 688 , purchased from the DEMU Showcase secondhand stall for £18 because it ran well - never mind the noise (the real thing's not quiet) it was a smooth slow running example in the right livery with the correct number for an intended project. A TCS MC2 was a very simple hard-wired installation, it's collected Shawplan cab windscreen and laserglaze, roof fan and etched nameplates/depot symbols , replacement buffers, some extra weight and weathering and looks very much the part - it doesn't have to pull more that two coaches. Total cost about £60 - which is probably what it would have cost to do the same thing 20 years ago

 

(The whole 4mm Bachmann /Vitrains/etc 37 fur fight of a decade ago got so venomously partisan and aggressive that I more or less swore I would never buy a new generation 37 model - I might be interested in buying a model engine but I'm not interested in buying into a faction and a feud as well. There is more to life and railways than Class 37)

 

I have a couple of old Lima 37s I keep meaning to get running again. DCC is not that hard on those. The split chassis locos are the difficult ones, but even then it can be done with a bit of work.

[jjb1970]

I think price is not the issue, it is perceived value and for some reason model trains seem to struggle on this.

 

Compare attitudes with those for watches. A radio controlled solar powered Casio G Shock is almost indestructible, better engineered, tells far better time than a fancy Swiss chronometer and will never need a battery. The G Shock is a fraction of the price of Swiss alternatives yet Swiss brands don't struggle to find plenty of buyers for what I'd argue is an inferior product because they have a certain brand image and people consider them to offer value.

 

Or how about smart devices and computers. Apple products sell at a big price premium over alternative MS and Android devices, aren't built to any higher standards and don't do anything much you can't do on the alternatives yet people queue up all night whenever Apple launch a new product just so they can be the first one to have it (PS. my own devices are MS and Android).

 

I like expensive steel framed road bikes, there is no rational justification to spend a lot of money on something that is heavier and less stiff than aluminium and carbon fibre alternatives yet I'd happily pay the money for a custom made Mercian or Pegoretti and not feel ripped off.

 

For some reason it seems model trains struggle to achieve the same cachet that other premium discretionary purchase products do.

 

Lest this be seen as an argument that price is unimportant, its not so much that as saying that price and value are not the same thing. And perception of value is a very personal thing. I'm very cynical about a lot of the price increases we've seen in model trains and have opted out of buying many models because I didn't think they offered value, but a hobby or passion is not measured in pounds and pence. In my case I went up market and returned to US outline brass and Euro HO as despite higher prices I think they offer better value but that is just my personal opinion.

[Roy Langridge]

I have a couple of old Lima 37s I keep meaning to get running again. DCC is not that hard on those. The split chassis locos are the difficult ones, but even then it can be done with a bit of work.

 

Indeed, I have fitted DCC to a load of my old Lima locos (20s, 37s, 47) and two of my sons use them. I have even fitted 8 pin sockets so I can move / remove chips as needed. Class 20s are the best performing of the lot.

 

Interestingly my old mainline 45s (3 of them) all are dead to this world now. Motors are stuck on two, gear train on the third. I will make one good one from the three at some point.

 

Roy

Edited July 11, 2017 by Roy Langridge

[Kelly]

Indeed, I have fitted DCC to a load of my old Lima locos (20s, 37s, 47) and two of my sons use them. I have even fitted 8 pin sockets so I can move / remove chips as needed. Class 20s are the best performing of the lot.

 

Interestingly my old mainline 45s (3 of them) all are dead to this world now. Moors are stuck on two, gear train on the third. I will make one good one from the three at some point.

 

Roy

 

The best runners of the Lima/Mainline locos I have are the 73s and the class 50 I mistakenly acquired once. The others are mostly naff runners.

[John M Upton]

That is another thing about old models, usually a demic can be sourced for spares cheaply and the old veteran resurrected.  Spares for the modern production models on the other hand are becoming increasingly hard to come by.

[Hilux5972]

The best runners of the Lima/Mainline locos I have are the 73s and the class 50 I mistakenly acquired once. The others are mostly naff runners.

You mistakenly acquired a Lima Class 50? How?

[Dunsignalling]

You mistakenly acquired a Lima Class 50? How?

Acquiring a Lima Class 50 was ALWAYS a mistake.

[Kelly]

You mistakenly acquired a Lima Class 50? How?

 

It just magically arrived without my remembering I'd bid on it in a haze of morphine. It runs very well however... It isn't worth anything and I don't feel like throwing it away...

[Roy Langridge]

It is easy to forget that in their day, Lima diesels were some of the best UK outline models available in RTR. I remember the first Lima 47 I got and comparing it to the Hornby version with the moulded paint guidelines - there was no comparison: one was brilliant the other a toy. Similarly, the Lima 37 without the body mounting tongue at one end that its Hornby rival had. The Class 20 was almost revolutionary when it arrived with a central mounted can motor.

 

Roy

Edited July 11, 2017 by Roy Langridge

[John M Upton]

I cut my modelling teeth buying cheap second hand Lima Class 33's and 47's and detailing/repainting them.  I must have kept Craftsman (for the detailing kits) and SEF (for the flushglaze windows) in profit during the early 1990's!

 

It was very rare I didn't return from a model show with a demic loco for less than twenty quid in my bag and it was usually up, running and repainted by the following weekend.

[Roy Langridge]

I cut my modelling teeth buying cheap second hand Lima Class 33's and 47's and detailing/repainting them.  I must have kept Craftsman (for the detailing kits) and SEF (for the flushglaze windows) in profit during the early 1990's!

 

It was very rare I didn't return from a model show with a demic loco for less than twenty quid in my bag and it was usually up, running and repainted by the following weekend.

 

And demic locos can still be bought for not much more than that when we take wage inflation into account. Indeed, as less people seem willing to fix things, in real terms they may be cheaper. So have entry costs really increased that much for somebody who wishes to model?

 

​Roy

Edited July 12, 2017 by Roy Langridge

[GreenGiraffe22]

Slightly off topic but it's been brought up, I'm finding the notion of young people thinking £60 is a cheap night out quite amusing. I don't know if I still count as young at 25, but whenever I've gone out, now or as a teen, and bare in my mind I live in Brighton which is almost little London these days, my threshold for a cheap night is/was around the £20 mark but I'm a super slow drinker & I'd rather walk 45 mins into town than get a cab. Cheapskate? Absolutely.

 

When I used to work in a bar when I was living in Wales, the youths would turn around and walk out if there were no drinks for £1! (I used to think, ha try living in Brighton! )

 

But yeah Just adding a little perspective from someone who may have been a teen more recently than others on this forum

[Roy Langridge]

Slightly off topic but it's been brought up, I'm finding the notion of young people thinking £60 is a cheap night out quite amusing. I don't know if I still count as young at 25, but whenever I've gone out, now or as a teen, and bare in my mind I live in Brighton which is almost little London these days, my threshold for a cheap night is/was around the £20 mark but I'm a super slow drinker & I'd rather walk 45 mins into town than get a cab. Cheapskate? Absolutely.

 

When I used to work in a bar when I was living in Wales, the youths would turn around and walk out if there were no drinks for £1! (I used to think, ha try living in Brighton! )

 

But yeah Just adding a little perspective from someone who may have been a teen more recently than others on this forum

You can pick up demics for a lot less than £60.

 

Roy

[grahame]

 I don't know if I still count as young at 25, but whenever I've gone out, now or as a teen, and bare in my mind I live in Brighton which is almost little London these days, my threshold for a cheap night is/was around the £20 mark but I'm a super slow drinker & I'd rather walk 45 mins into town than get a cab. Cheapskate? Absolutely.

 

Hmm, have you seen the prices in London? £20 will buy the first round and then what do you do for something to eat. Plus it sounds like you're the sort of person who ducks buying his second round when it's due.  

 

But £20 should still at least buy you a couple of second-hand coaches to re-paint and play with.  

 

G. 

[chris p bacon]

Slightly off topic but it's been brought up,

 

Slightly off topic .....this is meant to be about Bachmann press day and new releases, but has turned into a Lima love fest. 

[drmditch]

Slightly off topic .....this is meant to be about Bachmann press day and new releases, but has turned into a Lima love fest. 

Thank you Mr Bacon!

 

Please may I repeat my post of yesterday:- Is there any news of the re-tooled V2 ?

[Andy Y]

Please may I repeat my post of yesterday:- Is there any news of the re-tooled V2 ?

 

It is at the CAD stage.

[drmditch]

It is at the CAD stage.

Thank you Andy.

(Sorry to have repeated the question - I thought it might have got lost in all the stuff about faux teak and diesels!)

 

Please could you remind me where CAD is in the reporting stages?

(Obviously it must come before toolmaking etc)

 

 It would be nice to have some idea when we might see a model.

 

I'm sure that at a show in autumn 2015 a nice gentleman from Bachmann said we might get one in August 2016!

 

I'll live in hope!

Edited July 12, 2017 by drmditch

[Andy Y]

Thank you Andy.

(Sorry to have repeated the question - I thought it might have got lost in all the stuff about faux teak and diesels!)

 

Please could you remind me where CAD is in the reporting stages?

(Obviously it must come before toolmaking etc)

 

 It would be nice to have some idea when we might see a model.

 

I'm sure that at a show in autumn 2015 a nice gentleman from Bachmann said we might get one in August 2016!

 

I'll live in hope!

 

The stages are:

Design

CAD

Tooled/EP

Decorated sample

Production

 

None of the stages is of fixed duration as design can be straightforward or very complex; CAD stages may take a lot of work, particularly for locos or coaching stock ranges (which could be in effect 3/4 or 5 different but complementary models) but generally it's 9-12 months from seeing a final EP sample until products are for sale (if no revisions become necessary).

 

The best way to keep updated with the progress of the projects is to be a Bachmann Collectors' Club member as there's a quarterly update in Bachmann Times.

[Ozexpatriate]

Slightly off topic .....this is meant to be about Bachmann press day and new releases, but has turned into a Lima love fest. 

Quite so. Though we did have the whole modelling versus RtR, pricing/"we've never had it so good" old saws sharpened as well.

 

While everyone is dashing about on their favourite RMweb hobby-horses, how about the CADs for those steam cranes?

 

The 75T crane CADwork is mind-boggling, obviously not all of those gear wheels will be working but there are certain features such as posable outriggers.

 

Crane_1.jpg

 

Crane_2.jpg

[Mike Storey]

It is at the CAD stage.

 

Ditto Andy - did they by any chance mention the 4 BEP timescale please?