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OO gauge GWR Mogul and Prairie


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"There is only one thing about being talked about, and that is not being talked about....

 

A quote by Dame Edith Shuffle-Bottom, Platform 6, Severn Tunnel Junction.

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Posted (edited)

Oh ye of little faith, it did happen, 6324 carried a GWR lettered tender into the 1960’s

https://rcts.zenfolio.com/steam-gwr/4300/hA8896B7A#ha8896b7a
 

(and if theres any doubts, the Loco’s tender immediately behind 6324 is a BR late logo).

 

7816 Frilsham Manor also used the same tender here in 1964

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/5702915274

 

Edited by adb968008
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Posted (edited)

Looking at the Dapol website, I can't see either loco!

 

Under the OO pre-order section there is the sound fitted Manor and GWR Railcar, also sound fitted. Nothing else GWR.

 

In the main OO steam loco section, they aren't listed either!

 

The website must be having a blip, but I tried twice.

 

Now I have tried the product code in the search field.... taken from the Hattons website.... 4S-041-003 - Nothing!

 

Oops!!

 

Found it! - Its significantly reduced in price.... not sure about the finesse lol

 

By typing Prairie into the search bar, you get this!

 

1348515919_Screenshot2020-07-25at08_33_03.jpg.9528432525db92e3331575c1bcbb5fdb.jpg

 

Edited by Neal Ball
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17 hours ago, County of Yorkshire said:

I’m not jumping to conclusions thank you. I would’ve just thought that the market for a G-W-R  green mogul without smokebox numberplate would be eminently bigger than one for a G-W-R green mogul with a smokebox numberplate. 


I did speak to Dapol on this back at Warley suggesting that a true post war GWR release would be a more sensible choice, but no luck...   they did however say that smoke box doors will be available as a spare part, so you could just order a new smoke box door and backdate it.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Oh ye of little faith, it did happen, 6324 carried a GWR lettered tender into the 1960’s

https://rcts.zenfolio.com/steam-gwr/4300/hA8896B7A#ha8896b7a
 

(and if theres any doubts, the Loco’s tender immediately behind 6324 is a BR late logo).

 

7816 Frilsham Manor also used the same tender here in 1964

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/5702915274

 

Reading's well known (to us locally) 'pet' tender which had been gradually been cleaned down as Swindon's cheapo paint jobs paint deteriorated. to remove remnants of later coats of paint and insignia to reveal the GWR underneath but was otherwise pretty filthy.  Every time an engine was called to Swindon (most likely to meet its end) the tender was swapped with the one behind another engine.

 

Here is my photo of it behind 7816 on the Up Pilot at Reading, taken almost exactly 57 years ago :blink:

 

7816.jpg.4422b373c926d695a5b7ae8808d62668.jpg

 

 

Edited by The Stationmaster
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That I believe was why there was a pannier in the Birmingham area with a clearly visible "GWR" on the tank sides.

Enthusiastic cleaning had rubbed off BR's thin paint skims. AFAIK There were several locos around the "Western" where that had occured.

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3 hours ago, melmerby said:

That I believe was why there was a pannier in the Birmingham area with a clearly visible "GWR" on the tank sides.

Enthusiastic cleaning had rubbed off BR's thin paint skims. AFAIK There were several locos around the "Western" where that had occured.

If you saw the way Swindon painted engines (and presumably tenders) it was easy to understand why with the work being done fairly quickly while an engine was dealt with in A Shop (Churchward had shut the loco Paint shop at Swindon in order to save money and get engines into traffic more quickly). I suspect Caerphilly did a much better job because it retained a separate Paint Shop right up to closure and had a very fussy Paint shop Foreman who liked the job to be done properly

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I reckon it is about time moulded smokebox door numberplates were consigned to the dustbin of history anyway; they are incompatible with the standard of detail of modern RTR models.  A separate fitting that could easily be prised off would be easy enough to fit to the locos.  I'd agree, as somewhat of a transition livery specialist who chose his layout's period to exploit the greatest possible variety of liveries, that a transition livery is an odd prototype choice for an RTR model, but suspect that Dap may be working to recreate a prototype photo.

 

A spare part smokebox door is clearly the solution to this, along with retrofit numbers for post 1/6/48 BR.

On 25/07/2020 at 12:47, The Stationmaster said:

Reading's well known (to us locally) 'pet' tender which had been gradually been cleaned down as Swindon's cheapo paint jobs paint deteriorated. to remove remnants of later coats of paint and insignia to reveal the GWR underneath but was otherwise pretty filthy.  Every time an engine was called to Swindon (most likely to meet its end) the tender was swapped with the one behind another engine.

 

Here is my photo of it behind 7816 on the Up Pilot at Reading, taken almost exactly 57 years ago :blink:

 

7816.jpg.4422b373c926d695a5b7ae8808d62668.jpg

 

 

Can't be many photos of locos with GW liveried tenders carrying electrification warning flashes., and the weathering is brilliantly matched!

 

On 25/07/2020 at 13:50, melmerby said:

That I believe was why there was a pannier in the Birmingham area with a clearly visible "GWR" on the tank sides.

I believe this was a Worcester loco; no doubt Mr Bullock will be along to comment shortly.  There was an Old Oak 97xx that carried a similar livery in the early 60s as well.  

 

There is a bit of a grey area around the discontinuance of buffer beam numbers, the attachment of smokebox numbers, and the use of red backing to smokebox cabside number, and name plates on early WR locos.  Canton's last Saint 2906 Lady of Lynn was withdrawn in 1952, polished up by the shed staff for it's final journey, carrying wartime austerity G W R initials unlined, livery with a BR smokebox number plate, which with the cabside and name plates was red backed, and with polished chimney cap and safety valve cover, a proper mishmash of liveries which looked glorious!  She ran in traffic like this for about a week before final withdrawal, mostly local trip freight as she was unfit for fast work, and her final job was a Cardiff Tidal Sdgs - Didcot freight, then light engine to Swindon Works reception for disposal.  Nobody recorded if the works staff made any comment about the loco's external condition...

On 25/07/2020 at 17:04, The Stationmaster said:

I suspect Caerphilly did a much better job because it retained a separate Paint Shop right up to closure and had a very fussy Paint shop Foreman who liked the job to be done properly

This is a point made in E.R.Mountford's book about Caerphilly Worsk, which I'm sure you will have a copy of, Mike.  Mountford says they really went to town on 'Trematon Castle', which was the only loco of that class painted at Caerphilly, and viewed as an opportunity to 'show what they could do'; I have no doubt that the quality of the work was better than was being turned out of Swindon at the time, but I'd forgotten that Churchward's improvements had included closing the paint shops and doing the work in situ.

 

On 25/07/2020 at 08:10, Butler Henderson said:

unbelievable blunders, a classic with the N gauge range was the marketing of BR black 14xx's with maroon autotrailers and BR lined green 14xx's with cream and crimson autotrailers.

This is more of a believable blunder, and more believable than a blunder at that, Butler.  New liveries did not suddenly appear overnight as they tend to do nowadays because of the awareness of the marketing need for 'rebranding', they appeared gradually as the fleet of trailers visited workshops and were repainted in the current livery in use at that time, and trailers tended to be used on local or branh work where mileages between overhauls took a long time to accrue compared to main line stock which went further and faster.  Coaches commonly missed one or sometimes two liveries altogether.  Unlined black 14xx with maroon trailers were common, on some services up to closure or withdrawal of the stock.  A lined green loco hauling a crimson/cream trailer is less likely but not impossible, especially with the unicycling lion applied between '56 and '58 with this livery.  The last trailers painted in crimson/cream were turned out in 1950, the practice apparently being stopped by a letter from Mr Riddles who'd seen one at Paddington and wanted to know why lowly auto trailers were being painted in his best main line livery?  

 

There was a tradition on the GW of giving auto trailers the top main line livery of the day, perhaps because they were seen as 'saloons'.

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On 25/07/2020 at 07:32, Neal Ball said:

Looking at the Dapol website, I can't see either loco!

 

Under the OO pre-order section there is the sound fitted Manor and GWR Railcar, also sound fitted. Nothing else GWR.

 

In the main OO steam loco section, they aren't listed either!

 

The website must be having a blip, but I tried twice.

 

Now I have tried the product code in the search field.... taken from the Hattons website.... 4S-041-003 - Nothing!

 

Oops!!

 

Found it! - Its significantly reduced in price.... not sure about the finesse lol

 

By typing Prairie into the search bar, you get this!

 

1348515919_Screenshot2020-07-25at08_33_03.jpg.9528432525db92e3331575c1bcbb5fdb.jpg

 

Doesn't surprise me, I have always found Dapol's website next to useless. Perhaps OK as a forum to discuss models in development, but little else. Far better to use the updates posted on Hattons, Rails etc websites to see what is actually happening.

 

But, keeping on topic, re the Mogul - I see Hattons are now saying they will be arriving by the end of September. Personally, I'd love one of the BR Green/Early Emblem ones, but am holding back ordering due to the dog's dinner they (Dapol) made of the QA on the Rails/Dapol OO Terrier. Given the problems with that, on the Mogul that extended lamp bracket on the top of the smokebox door, in particular, plus the dart itself, look well open to abuse at the hands of Chinese packers. Will also be interested what form the connection between loco and tender will take - I think they've already said that it won't be the four fiddly wires and a tiny socket used by Hornby and Bachmann, and I've seen both the recent "wireless" new Bachmann variants (on their DMUs AND a Liliput HO tender loco) and Rapido variations, so it'll be interesting to see what this will be.

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No it's because they didn't start selling their 00 gauge steam models for pre-order before release for their G.W.R models till the announcement of the Manor Class cause the new update of how they'd sell their models till months after the moguls & large prairies were announced.

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2 hours ago, 9402 Fredrick said:

No it's because they didn't start selling their 00 gauge steam models for pre-order before release for their G.W.R models till the announcement of the Manor Class cause the new update of how they'd sell their models till months after the moguls & large prairies were announced.

? ?  Could you make your point a little clearer please ?

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11 hours ago, WisTramwayMan said:

Doesn't surprise me, I have always found Dapol's website next to useless. Perhaps OK as a forum to discuss models in development, but little else. Far better to use the updates posted on Hattons, Rails etc websites to see what is actually happening.

 

But, keeping on topic, re the Mogul - I see Hattons are now saying they will be arriving by the end of September. Personally, I'd love one of the BR Green/Early Emblem ones, but am holding back ordering due to the dog's dinner they (Dapol) made of the QA on the Rails/Dapol OO Terrier. Given the problems with that, on the Mogul that extended lamp bracket on the top of the smokebox door, in particular, plus the dart itself, look well open to abuse at the hands of Chinese packers. Will also be interested what form the connection between loco and tender will take - I think they've already said that it won't be the four fiddly wires and a tiny socket used by Hornby and Bachmann, and I've seen both the recent "wireless" new Bachmann variants (on their DMUs AND a Liliput HO tender loco) and Rapido variations, so it'll be interesting to see what this will be.

The mogul's tender connection has already been covered in this thread, at least twice.  It will be the same as the one being used for the SECR D because the two have been designed by the same chap.

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6 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

? ?  Could you make your point a little clearer please ?

Dapol have their other new 00 gauge steam locomotive items, but the GWR Mogul & Large Prairie being two of Dapol's first current standard 00 gauge steam locos that could be sound fitted and they didn't have the new policy for their sound fitted locomotives only being sold on their store they didn't add them onto their own webshop.

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Gaugemaster’s weekly newsletter details the arrival of the Moguls for August /September.That I think is as conclusive as we are likely to get as they are main Dapol distributors.

 

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Regarding the survival of GWR liveries. Although she was in, scruffy, BR black early totem livery, 4561 kept her red buffer beam with 4561 in gold until she was transferred from Truro shed. Knowing how loyal some of the Cornish employees were to "The Company" it wouldn't surprise me if that was done deliberately.

 

I used to chat to one of the ticket collectors, who would have been in his 50's, at Truro while train spotting in the late fifties. One day he proudly showed me that one of the buttons on each piece of his BR uniform was a GWR one. His attitude was that BR's standards fell short of "The Company's" by a considerable margin.

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36 minutes ago, Tankerman said:

Regarding the survival of GWR liveries. Although she was in, scruffy, BR black early totem livery, 4561 kept her red buffer beam with 4561 in gold until she was transferred from Truro shed. Knowing how loyal some of the Cornish employees were to "The Company" it wouldn't surprise me if that was done deliberately.

 

I used to chat to one of the ticket collectors, who would have been in his 50's, at Truro while train spotting in the late fifties. One day he proudly showed me that one of the buttons on each piece of his BR uniform was a GWR one. His attitude was that BR's standards fell short of "The Company's" by a considerable margin.

 
Lovely post.Thank you.

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For those who are keeping an eye. Dapol have released undecorated sound fitted version Mogul clip here:

 

 

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Doesn't sound too bad to me.  The ejector  noise is pretty good but the injector sounds 'strangled' and doesn't pick up as it should - might well be down to the speaker as much as anything else?    Vacuum pump noise is not quite 'spitty' enough for my taste but the whistles are good and the exhaust sound isn't bad although (again?) the speaker might not be idea.  However overall for Western r-t-r steam  it's not bad at all - apart from the injector.

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1 hour ago, melmerby said:

Oh Goody, comes fitted with a Kadee on the tender!:jester:

 

That would be a first for a British OO rtr release.;)

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1 hour ago, gwrrob said:

 

That would be a first for a British OO rtr release.;)

Haven't there been some modern wagons with buckeyes (like the prototype)?

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11 hours ago, melmerby said:

Oh Goody, comes fitted with a Kadee on the tender!:jester:

I doubt it, when all the pre prod images show standard tension locks. 

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13 hours ago, melmerby said:

Haven't there been some modern wagons with buckeyes (like the prototype)?

Yes, Bachmann HTA coal hoppers have them. They’re body mounted, not NEM mounted, although the wagons have NEM pockets, giving us the best of both worlds. The wagons can be buckeye connected (at the right height), with a tension lock (or your preferred coupler) on an end wagon for connecting to a loco. A very nice job by Bachmann.

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