Hornby 2018 - the full announcements

[fozzy280472]

To be honest I'm not sure a poll on RMweb would be truly representative when it comes to who models what . I believe there is a much larger liking for steam on here than for diesel and electric traction.

It would be like a reverse of the results should DEMU carry a poll !!!

I tend to find that seeing what sells on eBay is quite a good indicator of enthusiasm for eras.

I have said it before and I'll say it again, BR blue locos and stock always command a higher price , I know because I've been buying BR blue for years and it's a nightmare sometimes.

I think ANY manufacturer ignoring diesel and electric traction to be quite foolish and missing an opportunity.

If stock is laying around unsold , it shows the research for demand was wrong or poorly carried out in the first place.

[MatthewEWS]

The GWR 153 is now listed on the Hornby website

[Redford73]

Have to say disappointed - not a great deal of D&E as usual from Hornby and very little BR Blue given how popular that era still is in modelling.

 

I think, for the first time ever, I will be buying nothing from the new range - just the Class 87 deferred from 2017 and the MK1 coaches also from 2017.

 

And what has happened to Skaledale?  The range is diminishing each year?

[Jammy2305]

I'm going to wade in with my two pennies worth on the whole age argument.

 

I'm 23 and my earliest memories of the mainline railway are Anglia Railways 86's. As a result, I do indeed have a collection of Anglia liveried stock and I feel that there's an element of truth that people model what they remember.

 

But equally, my primary interests and subsequent collections cater for 1980's sectorisation, 1960's green/blue transition (1968-1973) and the GER in all it's Edwardian glory.

 

Why? Because I like them. Simple as.

 

Would I like to see Hornby go further down the pre-grouping route? Of course!

 

But equally am I happy they're doing 50033 in late NSE? Of course!

 

(Incidentally, having emailed Hornby, I've been assured the shade of blue will be more accurate than the photo on their website implies!)

 

With the modern railway lacking that element of... atmosphere... that say, BR had, is it any wonder younger modellers are happy to go with whatever takes their fancy era wise? Especially when it comes to pre-grouping. If you have no ties to an era, why wouldn't the bright colours of pre-1923 appeal?

[Dick Turpin]

It doesn't matter what age you are, if you are interested in any aspect or railways or modelling at all, just ask yourself exactly what floats your boat and then go for it. If what appeals to you is outside of your living memory, so much the better, research is one of the  greatest parts of the fun! 

[Coryton]

 

There is a possibility that there is a armchair-bound grey army waiting for the Hornby catalogue to arrive in the post to place telephone orders with their local stockist and who never venture online to places like RMweb or MREmag, and who would therefore be underrepresented in online polling. Certainly some of these people exist, but the question is "how many?"

 

 

There are probably people who use the internet for many things including placing on-line orders but don't bother with internet forums.

[GreenGiraffe22]

It doesn't matter what age you are, if you are interested in any aspect or railways or modelling at all, just ask yourself exactly what floats your boat and then go for it. If what appeals to you is outside of your living memory, so much the better, research is one of the greatest parts of the fun!

Yes to this! I've had a very frustrating but eventually rewarding time trying to research railway actively during the war years, they've always fascinated me, hence that is my chosen subject

 

Edit: I've never been remotely interested in diesels and electrics, my fondest memories of railways is going to the Bluebell Railway to see proper trains! And I still turn into an excited child when I see a steam train in the flesh!

 

Edit 2: I think a lot of my modelling is trying to recreate things I wish I could have seen in the flesh, in many ways I'm very lucky to have been born in today's world, but I've missed so much! So many historic aircraft I'll never see fly, and so many steam locomotives I'll never get to see or travel on, I would LOVE to visit Brighton Station & Works in the 30s / 40s... Not much to see now.

Edited January 10, 2018 by GreenGiraffe22

[Jammy2305]

It doesn't matter what age you are, if you are interested in any aspect or railways or modelling at all, just ask yourself exactly what floats your boat and then go for it. If what appeals to you is outside of your living memory, so much the better, research is one of the  greatest parts of the fun! 

 

Research is probably my favourite part of this entire hobby! The amount of additional stuff I've learnt whilst trying to find out about a particular subject is unreal, but it adds to the wider appreciation of the railway network as a whole.

[centraltrains]

The majority of customers want just to plonk the model on the track and play away, not everyone wants, nor has the capability, to upgrade the existing tooling to the latest standards.

 

Personally I think its a good thing the older models are being revisited, properly.

 

I'd rather have quantity over quality personally as long as basic lengths and positioning are accurate!

[jjb1970]

It depends on what you mean by "modern image", doesn't it?

 

The literal meaning would be the contemporary (or near contemporary) scene.

 

But another popular meaning seems to be models of things that were contemporary when the phrase first came into use (during BR "modernisation"?).

 

Or maybe it just means Not Steam?

 

There's something to be said for the "era" system...

 

I agree, modern image means different things to different people. I would use it describe contemporary or near contemporary trains but for many it seems to mean diesel and electric or post steam (and of course, plenty of diesel and electric locomotives were older than some steam locomotives).

 

If viewed in terms of technology many trains still in service (including some that people of my age still tend to think of as reasonably "modern" such as the class 60) are pretty antiquated. Which isn't of course the same as saying they're bad or that they should be replaced as old designs can still be perfectly suitable for their intended application.

[rob D2]

I wonder if they monitor eBay prices or trends ?

 

No BR blue 31 is probably as bigger slip as no sealed beamed peak from blue box.

 

It would be interesting to see the demographics

[rob D2]

I'm going to wade in with my two pennies worth on the whole age argument.

 

I'm 23 and my earliest memories of the mainline railway are Anglia Railways 86's. As a result, I do indeed have a collection of Anglia liveried stock and I feel that there's an element of truth that people model what they remember.

 

But equally, my primary interests and subsequent collections cater for 1980's sectorisation, 1960's green/blue transition (1968-1973) and the GER in all it's Edwardian glory.

 

Why? Because I like them. Simple as.

 

Would I like to see Hornby go further down the pre-grouping route? Of course!

 

But equally am I happy they're doing 50033 in late NSE? Of course!

 

(Incidentally, having emailed Hornby, I've been assured the shade of blue will be more accurate than the photo on their website implies!)

 

With the modern railway lacking that element of... atmosphere... that say, BR had, is it any wonder younger modellers are happy to go with whatever takes their fancy era wise? Especially when it comes to pre-grouping. If you have no ties to an era, why wouldn't the bright colours of pre-1923 appeal?

 

Interesting. I think we forgot sometimes people model stuff simply because they “ like it “ and it doesn’t need to have any nostalgia based ideas.

 

I actually have gone away a bit from nostalgia and can clearly see the ease of modelling up to date, as it’s all around us and therefore easy to engage with

[classy52]

Yes to this! I've had a very frustrating but eventually rewarding time trying to research railway actively during the war years, they've always fascinated me, hence that is my chosen subject

 

Edit: I've never been remotely interested in diesels and electrics, my fondest memories of railways is going to the Bluebell Railway to see proper trains! And I still turn into an excited child when I see a steam train in the flesh!

 

Edit 2: I think a lot of my modelling is trying to recreate things I wish I could have seen in the flesh, in many ways I'm very lucky to have been born in today's world, but I've missed so much! So many historic aircraft I'll never see fly, and so many steam locomotives I'll never get to see or travel on, I would LOVE to visit Brighton Station & Works in the 30s / 40s... Not much to see now.

 

That is the beauty of model railways and the real thing.

I'm completely opposite as I have no interest in steam as it does nothing for me but find the current day diesel/electric scene within the UK quite exciting and intriguing especially when there is heritage locomotive traction mixed with modern day traction including wagon and passenger rolling stock and the colours associated with all the different liveries applied to locomotives built 40-60 years ago.

The UK rail network is alive and yes it is sometimes nice to see steam locomotives doing their charters on the main line or on heritage lines but for me it is all diesel/electric, the only downside is that eventually the older loco's within the rail companies books will disappear especially that beautiful Class 37

[Jammy2305]

"...the only downside is that eventually the older loco's within the rail companies books will disappear especially that beautiful Class 37 :sungum:"

 

*Shameless plug alert*

 

That's why we at the C37LG do what we do - Keep the memory alive   

[Ozexpatriate]

There are probably people who use the internet for many things including placing on-line orders but don't bother with internet forums.

Certainly. That doesn't mean that RMweb is not a representative sample, just because some people don't participate on forums.

[Coryton]

Interesting. I think we forgot sometimes people model stuff simply because they “ like it “ and it doesn’t need to have any nostalgia based ideas.

 

I actually have gone away a bit from nostalgia and can clearly see the ease of modelling up to date, as it’s all around us and therefore easy to engage with

 

I quite enjoy being able to run the trains that I see - and travel on - every day.

 

But nostalgia does more for me...

[APOLLO]

The trouble is you know that there are simply far, far to many prototypes and liveries, and a myriad of combinations of the two to satisfy everybody, both mainstream and more specialised modelers. Quite a lot of models "that would sell" will, quite simply, never be made, ever.

 

I think we should all be grateful for what we have available, right now, both new, and previously released (probably available s/hand).

 

I started off with Tri-ang TT which was a fading range & scale back in the 60's, with very little choice, but we improvised and carried on. It was a big occasion when Tri-ang renamed it's TT Britannia from 7000 Britannia to 70036 Boadicea back in 1963 - (both of which I still have !!). Nothing else was renumbered as far as I remember, a choice of a dozen locos and the GEM / BEC white metal kits.

 

I now model  both in OO and American O scale - the latter of which little is available new here in the UK. Weaver, a major manufacturer in the USA closed down (due to retirement) a few years ago. A shame as it was an excellent firm to deal with, I ordered a couple of custom paint diesels from them back when £1 = $2. Now I get by by scouring Ebay etc and have found many bargains the past few years. Yes I have to compromise and make do - but for me that is part and parcel of the hobby.

 

As to current costs - simple, if you really want it & can afford it - buy it. I have my personal cost / value cut off points - which cut off quite a bit these days !!!!

 

Brit15

Edited January 10, 2018 by APOLLO

[Ozexpatriate]

The trouble is you know that there are simply far, far too many prototype models and liveries, and a myriad of combinations of the two to satisfy everybody, both mainstream and more specialised modelers. Quite a lot of models "that would sell" will, quite simply, never be made, ever.

This is very true - no matter what the period. It's really quite amazing just how much things change at the detail level.

[phil gollin]

.

 

On of the problems is availability.

 

I am quite happy with my Southern Region.  However, every time a nice Southern Railway loco, or EMU, comes out I get itchy fingers to extend my time coverage.  Likewise, it is obvious that other modellers would like more models.

 

IF I were a youngster starting to take a serious interest in modelling I would have to look at what is available now.  Compared with when I was young they have a very good cross-section of Southern Railway and Southern Region models, and even some pretty pre-grouping Southern locos.

 

And ditto for other regions/time periods, but they have little in many time periods.  The Stirling Single looks like it will be a wonderful model, but what else is there to go with it R-T-R ?   IF I were told to throw all my Southern Region models into a bin and told I could have a good selection of locos and rolling stock of any other region/time period I MIGHT choose Mid-Victorian GWR with both Broad and Standard gauges.  There, according to me there is a "need" for such models  -  but because of what is available now, I doubt my alternative reality will ever come to pass.

 

.   

[newbryford]

 

Edit: We don't all model what we see / remember.

 

I model the current day scene as it's what I remember (my memory isn't so good.....) 

 

I grew up in sight of the last regular steam workings on BR and saw the 15 Guinea Special, so maybe my memory isn't so bad after all.

 

Seriously though, I agree that Hornby missed an "easy win" with a plain red DB 60, even though they seem keen on one off and special liveries for diesels(*), No extra tooling and it's quite an easy paint job to go with no complex masking. Even now, the Hornby 60 ranks as the best RTR diesel to date - SLW 24 and Dapol 68 run it very close - IMO of course.

 

With the constant changing scene with liveries, I can understand why they haven't done a local lines 153 as it's now a "dying" livery. I reckon that the best liveries from a sales view are those that are current and are likely to be around for a few years and those that have disappeared (i.e "dead") a few years ago are the ones to do as people model "what they remember". Other ones to give a miss are those that are known to be short term measure in today's constantly changing railway scene (*)

 

As for knowing how many reasonably current modellers (I won't get into the modern image debate) are out there, how many layouts of the current era (let's say within the past 10 years) are on the exhibition scene?  I know it's not an exact science as so many of us never exhibit, but ask any exhibition manager why they don't have many, or any in some cases, current/contemporary (whatever you want to call them) at their show, it's because they can't find them to invite.

 

 I asked the same question in a thread a couple of years ago that invariably got locked after it became a steam v diesel slanging match.

 

 

Cheers,

Mick

(*) The Drax 60 seems to be appearing on the discount shelves. If it continues to drop in price, I may buy one and repaint it red (I have 3 red ones already!)

And the very short lived Caldonian TTS 67 is often available for less than £100. Great for repainting red or Pullman colours.

[Ozexpatriate]

IF I were a youngster starting to take a serious interest in modelling I would have to look at what is available now.  Compared with when I was young they have a very good cross-section of Southern Railway and Southern Region models, and even some pretty pre-grouping Southern locos.

This is the RTR chicken and egg phenomenon. Which came first, available models, or a preferred location/time?

 

As a youngster the contemporary scene for me was BR corporate blue, but I liked steam engines and that period (the late 1970s) were the heyday of the GWR BLT. Anything you needed for a GWR BLT could be purchased. That was certainly a factor in my choosing the GWR. (Plus, not living in the UK, I couldn't look out my window and see BR blue anyway). 

[Ozexpatriate]

With the constant changing scene with liveries, I can understand why they haven't done a local lines 153 as it's now a "dying" livery. I reckon that the best liveries from a sales view are those that are current and are likely to be around for a few years ...

I feel like that is exactly what Hornby has tried to do with the GWR franchise, but from the tone of comments here they don't seem to have gotten any credit for doing this.

[Simon_H]

I totally agree. Absent data, this circular argument (like many we participate in) is pointless.

 

AndyY did threaten to run such a survey a couple of years back (limited by definition to people who access RMweb*) but this did not eventuate.

 

* Personally I don't think it's a terrible crime to extrapolate RMwebbers to represent the larger enthusiast fraternity who make RTR purchases, but that of course is an opinion.

 

There is a possibility that there is a armchair-bound grey army waiting for the Hornby catalogue to arrive in the post to place telephone orders with their local stockist and who never venture online to places like RMweb or MREmag, and who would therefore be underrepresented in online polling. Certainly some of these people exist, but the question is "how many?"

 

Absent survey data, our retailer friends who post here, are the most reliable source of what sells and what doesn't.

 

It certainly is unscientific and to your earlier point, without survey data it is an observation with little meaning.

 

I can just as easily (and in my case facetiously) extrapolate that in my own under 55 experience, we prefer to focus on the late 1920s and early 1930s, simply because I do.

 

There are truly few (as a total percentage of enthusiasts) who can remember what the grouping era was like. To really remember the beginning of the BR era you have to be at least 77- assuming an age of about seven where you can actually remember details of things other than what your bedroom looked like. I am happily quite sure there are goodly number of septuagenarians and octogenarians here who do indeed remember that transition with great clarity, but given the realities of our mortality, this demographic is sadly shrinking.

 

There cannot be many who remember the early grouping period - it is beyond the lifespan/memory ability of most, since you'd have to be over 100.

 

My conclusion is that the vast majority of people who model anything before 1947, probably weren't there to see it, but while I think it to be an opinion informed by some maths, it remains an opinion.

 

Such data was polled once upon a time (2012 MREmag poll). The polling includes ages and preferred era. I have posted this analysis before.

00poll12ages.JPG

 

The "I model what I remember" maxim is true for some, and certainly not for everyone. The data does correlate very well for the BR late crest era - which unsurprisingly is the mode of this analysis. It does not correlate well for any other period, be it old or contemporary.

This Graph was interesting, not what I’d expect. I wonder what it would look like if such a poll was done today. I model mostly privatisation from 2010 onwards, to which I generalise as modern image.

[Rhys Underwood]

This Graph was interesting, not what I’d expect. I wonder what it would look like if such a poll was done today. I model mostly privatisation from 2010 onwards, to which I generalise as modern image.

 

It's surprised me as well, I had started off modelling the modern stuff but in the last year and half have turned to BR 50s/60s. I would like to see what that poll would look now too. In some cases I think modelling sometimes boils down to what is readily available, which, at the moment, does seem to be more 'steam era' models compared to more contemporary stuff that could be produced but it could be that there is more variety with the steam and early diesel then there is now.       

[Ozexpatriate]

This Graph was interesting, not what I’d expect. I wonder what it would look like if such a poll was done today. I model mostly privatisation from 2010 onwards, to which I generalise as modern image.

It's surprised me as well, I had started off modelling the modern stuff but in the last year and half have turned to BR 50s/60s. I would like to see what that poll would look now too. In some cases I think modelling sometimes boils down to what is readily available, which, at the moment, does seem to be more 'steam era' models compared to more contemporary stuff that could be produced but it could be that there is more variety with the steam and early diesel then there is now.       

Andy Y never did the *big* survey he contemplated but he did run a less granular survey with a "no era preference" option around 2013, which is slightly more recent.  It broadly conforms to the chart I showed earlier.

 

I don't recall exactly who participated (it might have been just RMweb), but I think the respondents in this survey under represent older enthusiasts.

 

Here are the results from that data:

 

* Data collected Circa 2013. (It might have been 2014 - I was careless when I recorded it.)

 

(I have shared this before.)

 

We all want to 'belong'. Therefore it is natural for all of us to project our own preferences as being frequently held. That's why survey data is more compelling that our 'gut' instincts.

 

With these buckets, the obvious gap is BR blue (relatively few model it) and grouping (relative to age, many people model it). This is ironic, because (at least superficially) the BR corporate period had the greatest amount of conformity making things easier for suppliers to satisfy demand. Of course when the details are examined, even that falls down and there are many subtle changes in detail.

Edited January 11, 2018 by Ozexpatriate