Scheduled Double Headed Diesels

[D854_Tiger]

Back in the days of loco haulage, there were two incidences of timetables (that I'm aware of) which featured regular doubled headed workings in order to achieve accelerated timings (rather than just getting up a big hill).

 

A 2 x Warship timetable between London - West of England and 2 x class 50 timetable Crewe - Scotland.

 

In practice what kind of difference to the schedules did a two locomotive timetable make, over a single loco, assuming the loading was not increased after the decision had been made to double head.

 

Were there any other incidences of whole timetables being given over to this kind of thing.

[Rugd1022]

The difference would be in recovering extremely well from P/Way slacks, in the case of the double headed 50s on the WCML this was vital in order to keep pace with the electric hauled leg of the journey south of Crewe, in lieu of the full electric service being introduced in 1974.

Edited January 10, 2018 by Rugd1022

[keefer]

Sort of similar was the introduction of HSTs on the ECML in Scotland. Journey time reductions were immediately possible mainly due to quicker recovery from slacks and stops (although better braking helped too).

Later on, differential speed limits would add to this, but max speed was still only 100mph (and considerably less through the curves in Fife)

[The Stationmaster]

Don't forget also the relatively short lived working of double-headed EE Type 3s (Class 37) on the WR - they definitely speeded trains up!

[GordonC]

also double-headed little Sulzers, mainly Class 24s and 26s, on the Highland main line services to Inverness. Or Class 27s on each end of the Edinburgh-Glasgow services in the 1970s

[The Johnster]

The double heading of both Warships on the W of E and 50s on the WCML north of Weaver were to achieve accelerated timings, in the case of the WCML and the 50s to deliver a Euston-Glasgow service to electric standards when the electrification had been deferred by the Treasury who were paying for it.  They were eventually replaced by single class 87 electrics of comparable power, which seemed to cope well enough with having 8 less driven axles.

 

My first ever run behind a 50 was with D408 on a Preston-Carnforth train in the summer of '68; diesels were not my prime reason for visiting the area, but I was as impressed with the amount of pull and acceleration as I had been 2 and a bit years earlier on a similar run from Doncaster to York with DP2, the loco's genetic ancestor.  

[Tim Hall]

Don't forget double headed rats or 20s on Summer Saturday trains to the coast, which carried on well into the 80s......

[ColinK]

I just remember the 50s on the WCML north of Preston. They were good runnng singly, but when they were double headed they were awesome, rapid acceleration and racing up Shap. Happy days. Shame there doesn’t seem to be much film of them on the WCML.

 

Over on the Midland Mainline, there was a regular evening working (may have been Saturdays only) from Derby to St Pancras that always had a pair of Peaks. It was a shorter than usual train too. No idea why it was double headed, but I used it many times, superb acceleration.

 

Today all the nuclear flask trains have two locos, most double headed, some top and tailed. I saw the Heysham to Sellafield working today, two class 68s with a single flask wagon sandwiched between them.

[GRUNFOS]

There was the use of 37's paired up on the Cambrian during the summer in the 80's, even pairs of Tinsley's freight machines turned up.

Found this on the class 37 photo thread.

 

[stovepipe]

Double-heading of SO holiday trains was about reliability and ensuring the train could get back home, rather than accelerating the timetable, so not really on topic for this thread.

 

As the OP and others have said there were only a few instances when it was done - the WCML to Glasgow cl 50s 1970-74, the CRE cl 42s 1969-71, the WR - Bristol cl 37s mid 1960s, and I would include the E - G push pulls cl 27s 1971-77. I wouldn't count the Highland mainline services - it was necessary to double (and triple) head because of the weight of the trains, and all they had were the Type 2s which had replaced steam. I wonder whether the double-heading of the Royal Scot by the LMS twins and the Bulleid locos resulted in a timetable acceleration?

[Enterprisingwestern]

I don't know whether it pedantically counts as double heading, but a lot went on in all eras between Plymouth and Newton Abbot/Exeter to get spare engines back to save paths on the South Devon banks.

 

Mike.

[chriswright03]

Today all the nuclear flask trains have two locos, most double headed, some top and tailed. I saw the Heysham to Sellafield working today, two class 68s with a single flask wagon sandwiched between them.

Isn't that for security reasons?

[kevinlms]

Isn't that for security reasons?

I suspect its to do with avoiding breakdowns of a sensitive train. A bit like the Royal Train, which also justifies two locos.

[TravisM]

I believe there was a regular scheduled double headed Class 50 early evening Paddington - Bristol working in the early 80's.  It left from platform 8 which led directly onto the down fast and it was booked to be worked as a HST working but as the WR was short of HST's at the time, double headed Class 50's were used to attempt to keep to HST timings.

[GordonC]

Double-heading of SO holiday trains was about reliability and ensuring the train could get back home, rather than accelerating the timetable, so not really on topic for this thread.

 

As the OP and others have said there were only a few instances when it was done - the WCML to Glasgow cl 50s 1970-74, the CRE cl 42s 1969-71, the WR - Bristol cl 37s mid 1960s, and I would include the E - G push pulls cl 27s 1971-77. I wouldn't count the Highland mainline services - it was necessary to double (and triple) head because of the weight of the trains, and all they had were the Type 2s which had replaced steam. I wonder whether the double-heading of the Royal Scot by the LMS twins and the Bulleid locos resulted in a timetable acceleration?

 

The E-G Class 27s was perhaps as much for a cab at each end for quick turnarounds as much as speeding up the service ... although of course both would be achieved

[jonny777]

On the subject of 2x37s Paddington to Bristol, if they went like a bat out of hell why was the trial not continued into a regular service?

 

I'm sure I must have read about this many decades ago, but my memory fails me on these things. 

[stovepipe]

I think they were quicker but perhaps not substantially so over the fairly short distance involved. 3500hp in 220 tons of loco is not a great deal better than 2700 in 108 tons.

[Phil Bullock]

IIRC combined length of locos and unsuitability of traction motors had something to do with it....

 

Phil

[RANGERS]

The MML had a couple of turns with double headed type 4s in the 70s/ early 80s, both I believe were loco positioning turns and nothing to do with timings, although no doubt it helped. One was an up morning service which passed Kettering around 11am (may have been the empty news stock but I have it in mind both were passenger turns, could be wrong though) and the other an up afternoon turn around 4pm which I travelled on a few times. I worked in a building overlooking the line from Dec 1981 until Summer 1983 and these two were always worth a look to see what was on them, class 45/1, 47/4 or any combination of.

 

For a couple of years in the 1990s, there was a turn with two 31s, up in the morning and down leaving LStP around 5pm. I travelled on the down run several times in 1994 and 95, the final time on Apr 12th shortly before starting a new job. I don't think the timing was up to HST but was in line with the previous type 4 times, I'd expect two locos were required to maintain this, having roughly the same power as a 45/ 47 but with significantly more weight.

[kevinlms]

The E-G Class 27s was perhaps as much for a cab at each end for quick turnarounds as much as speeding up the service ... although of course both would be achieved

Class 47s were wanted, but insufficient numbers were available, so an alternative method of propulsion were required. Since the ScR had plenty of Type 2s, this was an obvious solution.

 

If Class 47s had been available earlier, a DBSO (or equivalent) would have been required earlier. After all, the SR had been doing 'a loco at the rear only' for years with their Class 33s.

 

Edit to add.

 

Certainly the Swindon sets had become unreliable - I attended school alongside the E-G mainline and one morning a set broke down outside the school. When it was eventually shifted (I missed how!), there was a long procession of trains, slowly coming up to the signal. The Push-Pulls brought in a faster & more frequent service.

Edited January 13, 2018 by kevinlms

[ColinK]

While it was a long trip from Manchester to Scotland, I did ride on the Edinburgh - Glasgow class 27 powered push pull trains several times. They were great fun, especially standing in the last coach with the window open as they blasted up the grade through Cowlairs tunnel. Happy days. Shame I didn’t have a cine camera then.

[keefer]

They were looking at using cl. 50s initially, but these were all needed to double-head the accelerated WCML trains. There were timing runs with 37s and 47s, but there just weren't any available.

Edited January 14, 2018 by keefer

[Clive Mortimore]

Don't forget also the relatively short lived working of double-headed EE Type 3s (Class 37) on the WR - they definitely speeded trains up!

Hi Mike

 

Were the ones used in the trials fitted with Deltic/class 50 traction motors and gears (or was it complete bogies) for the faster timings?

 

Edit, And wasn't the trial to see if faster trains could be managed with the new signalling installed ready for the DHST?

Edited January 14, 2018 by Clive Mortimore

[MarkC]

Hi Mike

 

Were the ones used in the trials fitted with Deltic/class 50 traction motors and gears (or was it complete bogies) for the faster timings?

 

Edit, And wasn't the trial to see if faster trains could be managed with the new signalling installed ready for the DHST?

I thought that it was complete bogies? CP7 rings a bell?

[stovepipe]

From various issues of 'Syphon' the Class 37 Loco Group magazine.

On 22 May 1965, a high speed test was riun with D6881 and D6882 from Cardiff powered the down 0845 Bristolian, returning to London on the 11.35 from Weston Super Mare.

On 3 June 1965 the same pair broke every WR speed record during a test from Paddington to Plymouth, out via Westbury and back via Bristol.

This pair also worked a leg of the Last Steam Hauled Train from Paddington on 27 November 1965, and were supposed to provide a fast return from Swindon to Paddington, but this didn't transpire apparently.

In 1966 the go-ahead for the high-speed services was given, and from 18 April 1966 the following services were covered by locos from D6875-6892 group, which had been specially re-geared for the work.

Diagram 1 - with XP64 stock
08.20 Swansea - Paddington (200 mins)
12.45 Paddington - Bristol TM (115 mins)
16.15 BTM - Paddington (105 mins)
19.00 Paddington - Swansea (no time given)

Diagram 2 - 370 ton set of B&G stock
08.45 Paddington - Bristol TM (105 mins)
11.15 BTM - Paddington (130 mins)
14.45 Paddington - BTM (110 mins)
18.15 BTM - Paddington (130 mins)

100 mph running was permitted between MP11 & 29.5 and 43 & 63.75 down, and MP63.75 & 43.75 and 43.25 & 10 on the up.

By September 1966 the EE type 3s had been replaced by single Westerns and 47s though the accelerated timetables were kept through to the 1967-8 timetable, when all service had 5 minutes recovery time added, ostensbily due to re-signalling work.

 

There isn't much on the re-gearing, and there is quite some doubt whether it was actually done given the expense of converting 18 locomotives. Interestingly the Deltics received cast bogies in 1966 instead of fabricated ones, and it's possible some cast sets were provided for the 37s too. I beleive these were rated for 105mph if maintained correctly.