Great Model Railway Challenge - Channel 5

[PMP]

 

If you get one for FREE then he (or she) should be interested in it, the moment you start paying him (or her) then they are in it for the money.

 

This programme is supposed to be for the public not someone who wants to be the big I am.

 

Garry

If the payment for ‘stars’ isn’t coming from your pocket the cost is immaterial.

 

 

Where does it say ‘the show is for the public’? If a high profile personality gets involved, that’s all for the better, the public like seeing them, it’s a no brainier for ratings, and that’s what the TV companies need. No viewers, no show, game over.

[RedgateModels]

Tim's already a star to me

[Mallard60022]

If the payment for ‘stars’ isn’t coming from your pocket the cost is immaterial.

 

 

Where does it say ‘the show is for the public’? If a high profile personality gets involved, that’s all for the better, the public like seeing them, it’s a no brainier for ratings, and that’s what the TV companies need. No viewers, no show, game over.

Yup

 

I am not really keen on this, "stars" seem to think the public owe them a favour.

 

If you get one for FREE then he (or she) should be interested in it, the moment you start paying him (or her) then they are in it for the money.

 

This programme is supposed to be for the public not someone who wants to be the big I am.

 

Garry

Maybe, if it is some ### such as a Spice Girl, but that chap who is a Pop Producer is just right for this sort of thing is he not and is it John Snow who has a layout lurking somewhere? He is a well known 'star' in certain folk's eyes. 

 

Phil

Edited November 8, 2018 by Mallard60022

[Huw Griffiths]

Hello everyone, does anyone know if under-18s are allowed on?

 

This could be an "interesting" issue, for a number of reasons.

 

• If any participants are still at school, "their" episodes would need to be filmed during the summer school holidays. The Easter and Whitsun breaks wouldn't "cut it" - because these might interfere with revision for exams.

   

• This last issue might also apply to college / university students - many of whom also have exams at the end of their summer terms. (You might have worked out by now that I used to work in a university - as a "labrat" - and I had contact with students every day during term time. I was also actively involved in outreach to local schools.)

   

• There might also be issues concerning insurance / safeguarding (I seem to recall something about people under the age of 18 being legally regarded as "vulnerable") - and exposure of under-18s to power tools etc. At this point, I could add that I don't think there would have been anything connected with the making of these programmes that would have been a threat to me when I was in school - but it's not unknown for programme makers to err on the side of being "risk averse".

 

As for my personal views, I'd actually rather like to see some young people taking part in future series. Quite apart from these people effectively being the future of this hobby, I suspect they might also inject a different approach to modelmaking - and a different outlook in general.

 

I'd also like it if, in future series, more teams were to take part - not just to make the series longer (although this would be a bonus) - but because this would increase the range of participants - it would also reduce the chances of "credible" teams being denied the chance to take part. For me, it would be very much a case of "the more the merrier" (even if rather less of the "merry", in the case of anyone under the age of 18).

 

OK - these are my personal views - which some people might not agree with - but I've never had a problem with diversity of opinions.

 

It will be interesting to see what happens in due course.

 

 

Huw.

[hicksan]

I am not really keen on this, "stars" seem to think the public owe them a favour.

 

If you get one for FREE then he (or she) should be interested in it, the moment you start paying him (or her) then they are in it for the money.

 

This programme is supposed to be for the public not someone who wants to be the big I am.

 

Garry

 

There are plenty of 'stars' that would probably think of themselves as ordinary modellers and might be delighted - and humbled perhaps - to be invited on the show. I think of Peter Snow as an example, or Jools Holland. I think it might help the public see how widespread enjoyment of the hobby is, helping to break the 'geek' stereotype. It doesn't have to be rock or film stars. Celebrity rather. The more widespread the better. It's a good idea Laurie.

[hicksan]

This could be an "interesting" issue, for a number of reasons.

 

• If any participants are still at school, "their" episodes would need to be filmed during the summer school holidays. The Easter and Whitsun breaks wouldn't "cut it" - because these might interfere with revision for exams.

   

• This last issue might also apply to college / university students - many of whom also have exams at the end of their summer terms. (You might have worked out by now that I used to work in a university - as a "labrat" - and I had contact with students every day during term time. I was also actively involved in outreach to local schools.)

   

• There might also be issues concerning insurance / safeguarding (I seem to recall something about people under the age of 18 being legally regarded as "vulnerable") - and exposure of under-18s to power tools etc. At this point, I could add that I don't think there would have been anything connected with the making of these programmes that would have been a threat to me when I was in school - but it's not unknown for programme makers to err on the side of being "risk averse".

 

As for my personal views, I'd actually rather like to see some young people taking part in future series. Quite apart from these people effectively being the future of this hobby, I suspect they might also inject a different approach to modelmaking - and a different outlook in general.

 

I'd also like it if, in future series, more teams were to take part - not just to make the series longer (although this would be a bonus) - but because this would increase the range of participants - it would also reduce the chances of "credible" teams being denied the chance to take part. For me, it would be very much a case of "the more the merrier" (even if rather less of the "merry", in the case of anyone under the age of 18).

 

OK - these are my personal views - which some people might not agree with - but I've never had a problem with diversity of opinions.

 

It will be interesting to see what happens in due course.

 

 

Huw.

 

Under 18s were explicitly excluded. Insurance and safeguarding.

[TouchCabMike]

I don't think this is a DC v DCC issue. What I think it comes down to is being properly prepared for an exhibition.

 

Whatever technology you decide to use:

Make sure your operators understand how to use it properly. 

Take fault finding equipment and repair equipment with you. 

Make sure your operators are trained to do basic fault finding and repairs. 

Design your layout with faults in mind - can faulty sections be isolated out to recover some functionality? 

Take some test track - is the problem the controller, locomotive or layout? 

Where possible have backup systems in place - spare controllers, DCC chips if that's your thing.

Document the layout - have a manual for it that explains how it works, wiring diagrams, controller and chip settings, etc. 

 

When the layout's at home or at the club it's an annoyance but not critical if something doesn't work right. When it's at an exhibition, it's theatre and 'the show must go on'.

I used to tech for an amateur theatre group, and would make sure there was always a back-up audio player that I could work in the dark, had spare cables to hand and a diagram of the lighting rig and lighting desk manual so that if any lanterns failed or something went awry with the programming, there was something else that could be brought up temporarily to cover for it. 

 

 

Wow, it's like you read my manual! Any chance you want to move to Aberdeen and join the club? With two of us badgering them...

[Suzie]

No children and no celebrities for the sake of it. Keep the focus on modelling. Make a childrens' version for CITV or whatever by all means, but don't spoil it by adding over sentimentality.

 

If Pete Waterman, Rod Stewart, Neil Young, Roger Daltrey, Anne Diamond, and a friend want to put a team in fine - I'll support that!

[Huw Griffiths]

No children and no celebrities for the sake of it. Keep the focus on modelling. Make a childrens' version for CITV or whatever by all means, but don't spoil it by adding over sentimentality.

 

If Pete Waterman, Rod Stewart, Neil Young, Roger Daltrey, Anne Diamond, and a friend want to put a team in fine - I'll support that!

 

Although I'd like to see something like that - and they'd probably earn a lot of people's respect for having a go - I very much doubt if they'd go for that.

 

Let's face it, there'd be so many people wanting the "bragging rights" of being able to say that they'd beaten them, that they'd effectively be pinning targets to their chests.

 

 

Huw.

[Suzie]

Perhaps they will each just put a team together for the Saturday evening celebrity version...

[ovbulleid]

Under 18s were explicitly excluded. Insurance and safeguarding.

Funny then how we had one 17 year old, and the Railway Children were all 17 or 18...

 

I thought the rules said no under 16’s.

[RJS1977]

No children and no celebrities for the sake of it. Keep the focus on modelling. Make a childrens' version for CITV or whatever by all means, but don't spoil it by adding over sentimentality.

 

If Pete Waterman, Rod Stewart, Neil Young, Roger Daltrey, Anne Diamond, and a friend want to put a team in fine - I'll support that!

 

Jools Holland, perhaps?

[Colin_McLeod]

"Stars" might help but pick the wrong "Star" and he/she might do the 'grown men and toy trains' image that the programme has so far avoided.

[newbryford]

 

 

P1000752.JPG

 

Card trapped between pre-wired motor and point

 

P1000755.JPG

 

 

 

Going further OT - 

I tried card originally but found it too thick - I think it was on a layout way back in the early 1980s and quickly substituted it with brown paper (TBH, any thin paper will do, all it's doing is supporting ballast, but the advantage of brown is that it doesn't need painting)

 

New Bryford - built in 1990-1992 - is still going string with this method and (bringing it back on topic) will be sharing the same exhibition hall as the winning GMRC layout in just over 3 weeks..........

 

Cheers,

Mick

[newbryford]

No children and no celebrities for the sake of it. Keep the focus on modelling. Make a childrens' version for CITV or whatever by all means, but don't spoil it by adding over sentimentality.

 

If Pete Waterman, Rod Stewart, Neil Young, Roger Daltrey, Anne Diamond, and a friend want to put a team in fine - I'll support that!

 

How about a heat with modelling magazine teams?

 

One of the the judges may have to be extra impartial though!

 

Cheers,

Mick

[andyram]

Great to see a member of the production team viewing the thread. I would also like to add my congrat on a good first series. It has been an enjoyable watch and I am looking forward to Friday.

[john new]

"Stars" might help but pick the wrong "Star" and he/she might do the 'grown men and toy trains' image that the programme has so far avoided.

Yes; just catching up with the coaches restored series which I recorded and forgot about! The intro' bits with his "attic train set" and some other comments from Peter Snow add those elements which GMRC has successfully avoided. If he wants to run mis-matched, implausible, trains that's his prerogative, my point is his brand of enthusiasm fits and reinforces the stereotype mould of the bonkers train fan.

 

The coaches restored programme I'm watching despite the presenter/production style because I'm interested in the topic. GMRC shows a cross section of young and old, men and women, doing a hobby in a "crafting" style. Why change a winning formula? If a Peter Snow style bouncy celebrity person had been front man/woman it would have spoilt it.

Edited November 7, 2018 by john new

[TRAINS_R_GUD]

Under 18s were explicitly excluded. Insurance and safeguarding.

Thanks, I was just wondering!

[Legend]

"Stars" might help but pick the wrong "Star" and he/she might do the 'grown men and toy trains' image that the programme has so far avoided.

Stars also tend to dominate. Let’s keep it about trains

[hicksan]

No children and no celebrities for the sake of it. Keep the focus on modelling. Make a childrens' version for CITV or whatever by all means, but don't spoil it by adding over sentimentality.

 

If Pete Waterman, Rod Stewart, Neil Young, Roger Daltrey, Anne Diamond, and a friend want to put a team in fine - I'll support that!

 

I agree about not having children. It would make it a completely different programme, and greatly limit the scope of what could be achieved - pitching it as a train set programme rather than about model railways. How would one fairly judge a team of mostly children against one of mostly adults? The Railway Children team put up a really valiant effort and obviously had a great time but struggled due to inexperience - it was a relief to see theirs working at the end - and they were adults albeit young.

 

A guest celebrity as third judge, perhaps to offer a casting vote or something - without too much focus on them - I don't have a problem with that and can see how it might enhance the image of the hobby. It needn't take more than a minute of screen time and we could do with fewer filler shots of Fawley, lovely though that is. Do a separate programme about Fawley (I would watch that) but would prefer GMRC to focus more on the layouts.

 

BTW has anyone noticed that the track plans of the layouts shown at the beginning of each episode are all wrong? It's always the same layout that is displayed with the little crosses flashing randomly over it, regardless of which team's plans are being explained. There is always a wind turbine towards the bottom left. The track plans at the end, just before the demonstrations, seem to be correct. It's been bugging me since I first noticed it, and the same problem seems to crop up with every episode. I can't imagine why the production team would do that if it was not accidental, nor why it should keep repeating if it was? Apologies if this has already been spotted and commented on elsewhere ad nausiam - if so I missed that.

[hicksan]

Funny then how we had one 17 year old, and the Railway Children were all 17 or 18...

 

I thought the rules said no under 16’s.

 

Sorry if I got that wrong. The rules must have been changed by that point then. The rules changed a lot so no surprise there. I asked about bringing my daughters, early on, and was told definitely "no under 18s" for the reasons given - just checked the email. I get the impression they struggled a bit to get the full quota of 15 teams. It will be interesting to see if there is more interest for next year or less.

[MarkSG]

 I get the impression they struggled a bit to get the full quota of 15 teams. It will be interesting to see if there is more interest for next year or less.

 

I suspect they could probably get a full quota of teams just from RMweb. But I reckon there will be plenty of club members up and down the country who have been watching it and thinking "That looks fun - but I bet we could do it better". I don't think they'll have any trouble getting enough teams for a second series.

[hicksan]

Wow, it's like you read my manual! Any chance you want to move to Aberdeen and join the club? With two of us badgering them...

 

I have two controllers on independent circuits with independent wiring to every baseboard so any track section can be switched across locally with a DPDT - but then I'm dc and it's all cheapo old stuff and regularly overheats. Not sure how this would be done if/when dcc.

[newbryford]

I have two controllers on independent circuits with independent wiring to every baseboard so any track section can be switched across locally with a DPDT - but then I'm dc and it's all cheapo old stuff and regularly overheats. Not sure how this would be done if/when dcc.

 

Remove DC controllers.

Connect DCC to one of the previous DC inputs. Switch all sections to that controller input - job done.

(Although overheating wiring should be checked/replaced regardless of DC or DCC)

Edited November 7, 2018 by newbryford

[hicksan]

I suspect they could probably get a full quota of teams just from RMweb. But I reckon there will be plenty of club members up and down the country who have been watching it and thinking "That looks fun - but I bet we could do it better". I don't think they'll have any trouble getting enough teams for a second series.

 

That would be nice. I hope you are right.

 

I encountered a lot of scepticism, from several clubs, when trying to gather a team first time round. There was a lot of concern that it would be 'bake off with trains' and just trivialise the hobby by making any kind of serious model impossible - the baseboard dimensions published early were a bit of a giveaway. I lost count of the number of people who said they wouldn't be seen dead on the show, that it would make a laughing stock of the hobby, and most of them still hold that view (those that are willing to talk to me in civil terms since our episode was broadcast).

 

Missenden tried to build something serious - what we hoped people might find inspirational and attainable - but it required loads of compromises and we still ended up on the wrong side of the rules, running out of time, edited into pantomime villains, labelled as cheats in the national press and trolled by half the country it sometimes seems. People even commented on the fact we were wearing Missenden shirts as evidence of ruthless megalomania! However enjoyable the show was to us and to its audience; people see that side of it too, all too clearly. The consequences of getting it wrong are pretty awful. I personally would be up for a return, because it was fun, but am struggling to find much enthusiasm from others.