ThaneofFife Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 thats where the garden railway with shed or garage comes in but around the average loft or spare room 10 coach trains will be tail chasing almost. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted January 4, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 4, 2019 (edited) I think there is a significant proportion of potential purchasers who are only really interested in locos, and regard anything hung on the back of them as little more than mobile scenery. Their choice, but running basic, unimproved 1970s coaches behind 21st century super-detail locomotives inevitably defines their layouts, however elaborate, as "train sets" rather than "model railways". Personally, I'm overjoyed that we are now offered decent coaches r-t-r. With over 150 locos, I've been, and remain, quite willing to slow down on buying more to finance a quality coach fleet. There's also a big difference between buying a Bachmann autocoach at £69 (though I only paid £39 for my second one), which, plus loco, forms a complete train and splashing out for an express rake with nine or ten coaches, all slightly different, each at a similar price point. As things are, were Bachmann or Hornby to produce a complete Coronation set to current standards (which they'd have to - a premium train deserves premium models), we'd be looking at a price tag well north of £500. John I think cost is the issue here . You asked why the Birdcages were not packed in threes , it maybe that Bachmann thought the cost would deter the enthusiast @ £165, whereas it might be easier to buy coaches @£55 a time . However they haven't shown such reserve before with Blue Pullmans etc, I can't remember what price that is , just that it was such a level I immediately ruled it out. I don't know the makeup of the Coronation or Silver Jubilee but would every coach require modelling or would people buy a beaver observation car and maybe an articulated unit to form train? Hornby don't model all Eurostar coaches There is a market for people buying expensive fully detailed coaches to make up full trains . I'm very surprised at the take up for full rake APTs, really just didn't think that would be a goer for cost and space reasons. There is another market that will accept something more representative, shortened formations. I genuinely don't know where the split is and whether there is enough volume for Hornby to make the margin it needs . They may think it less risky to produce another A3. Monday will certainly be interesting. Edited January 4, 2019 by Legend 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 I am 'already there' in respect of train cost. Nine cars of Hornby's excellent all steel K type cars as an example. A full Coronation/West Riding set would be the same scale of expense. (Offers more liveries for the manufacturer too, LNER two tone blue, BR's crimson and cream and maroon.) In its original livery, I suspect the eye candy factor will do the job. I might have bitten the bullet on a Golden Age set, but the few owner reports I have seen suggest these are for looking at, rather than operating. (Traction isn't the problem, I can make RTR pacifics up to 600g, and the motors and drive trains are good for it.) With most of what I need for a BR ECML steam period layout now manufactured or built from kits, my interest in what the RTR manufacturers might produce is 'filling in the corners' or 'icing the cake'. One such is a Coronation/West Riding streamliner set (a key exhibition item to ilustrate Doncaster's complete superiority in UK steam engineering). 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purley Oaks Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 I think cost is the issue here . You asked why the Birdcages were not packed in threes , it maybe that Bachmann thought the cost would deter the enthusiast @ £165, whereas it might be easier to buy coaches @£55 a time . :offtopic: Rails currently sell the Birdcages in threes, the maroon for £119, olive green for another £20. Course this suggests that they were over-produced. Apologies for going all bluebox in a redbox thread... Mal 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 4, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2019 I wonder if in the coaching stock stakes the money lies in doing things like restaurant cars and also full brake vehicles? Restaurant cars would no doubt depend on how Hornby have fared with the Maunsell example and of course lots of layouts won't support the idea but they could be premium priced vehicles at not much additional manufacturing cost than other high standard coaches so would potentially offer a good margin. Similarly full brakes could draw on existing tooling/design features and they would obviously have wider use so would be more generally attractive and could probably still have a pretty good profit ratio. The out-and-out 'novelty' items such as a Coronation type set are, I think, going to depend largely on the collector plus the sheer availability of cash (or plastic) to buy them and I'm not entirely sure that this would work in the present state of the economy so even if design work had been done, which would have started a couple of years back, would they be the sort of thing authorised in 2018 for an uncertain economic situation in 2019? 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted January 4, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2019 I am 'already there' in respect of train cost. Nine cars of Hornby's excellent all steel K type cars as an example. A full Coronation/West Riding set would be the same scale of expense. (Offers more liveries for the manufacturer too, LNER two tone blue, BR's crimson and cream and maroon.) In its original livery, I suspect the eye candy factor will do the job. I might have bitten the bullet on a Golden Age set, but the few owner reports I have seen suggest these are for looking at, rather than operating. (Traction isn't the problem, I can make RTR pacifics up to 600g, and the motors and drive trains are good for it.) With most of what I need for a BR ECML steam period layout now manufactured or built from kits, my interest in what the RTR manufacturers might produce is 'filling in the corners' or 'icing the cake'. One such is a Coronation/West Riding streamliner set (a key exhibition item to ilustrate Doncaster's complete superiority in UK steam engineering). A conversation with an owner of a set of Golden Age streamlined stock gave me a reality check on their running characteristics.Because of the prototypically close connection,they are restricted almost to prototypical track curvature.We mortals call it radius.This adds to any haulage problems due to weight.So yes you hit the nail on the head.Good cosmetically but maybe not an option for the majority. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 4, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2019 (edited) I think cost is the issue here . You asked why the Birdcages were not packed in threes , it maybe that Bachmann thought the cost would deter the enthusiast @ £165, whereas it might be easier to buy coaches @£55 a time . However they haven't shown such reserve before with Blue Pullmans etc, I can't remember what price that is , just that it was such a level I immediately ruled it out. I don't know the makeup of the Coronation or Silver Jubilee but would every coach require modelling or would people buy a beaver observation car and maybe an articulated unit to form train? Hornby don't model all Eurostar coaches There is a market for people buying expensive fully detailed coaches to make up full trains . I'm very surprised at the take up for full rake APTs, really just didn't think that would be a goer for cost and space reasons. There is another market that will accept something more representative, shortened formations. I genuinely don't know where the split is and whether there is enough volume for Hornby to make the margin it needs . They may think it less risky to produce another A3. Monday will certainly be interesting. I don't think £165 would deter any "enthusiast" who really wanted a Birdcage set (though I got mine for £150 reasonably soon after release). However, it might well put off anybody just looking for a random coach. The danger in selling separately, the component parts of what existed in fixed formations lies in exactly those indiscriminate buyers, who might, disproportionately, latch on to one particular vehicle out of the three, leaving retailers stuck with incomplete sets that nobody else will buy. I suspect that concern is what lies behind Rails selling them as a pack (albeit with a handsome discount) despite Bachmann releasing them individually. Comparing a putative Coronation or Silver Jubilee with the Eurostar may not be helpful, though, simply because I can't remember the last time I saw one of the latter on a "serious" layout. They seem to sell overwhelmingly to the train set market, and one wonders if the inability to make up even a reasonably representative set (8 or 10-car, say) without resorting to quite extensive conversion work, may be at the root of that. . I think the probability of a new Hornby A3 is high, not because the current one especially lacks detail or is inaccurate but simply that, on recent evidence, the existing tooling is well on the way out. John Edited January 4, 2019 by Dunsignalling 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45568 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 (edited) Bulleid coaches, full range! Will be in the shops by November 2019, in BR/SR green and C/Cream, plus where applicable, Malachite! Quad-Art sets in Teak and BR Crimson, for the N7. L1 etc. Cheers from Oz, Peter C. Edited January 4, 2019 by 45568 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 FWIW as a South Eastern "enthusiast", I brought 2 sets of Birdcages (SECR and BR Maroon colours). The eurostar is so toy like, I would not run it at an expo even if all the missing cars were done by Hornby. In anycase the train is immense, so I doubt I would run one in OO gauge. N gauge is probably more apt here. I do own a Hornby Eurostar but it sits in a box with all other 90s made South East region items I own. Coming out occasionally whenever kids ask for it. The DJM 14 car APT gives the best value for money. £100 more than a ten car and covers all 7 vehicle types. I suspect few will run it at full length though but I understand why it was the most popular. Coronation and silver jubilee sets should do well given the vast numbers of streamlined duchesses and A4s sold over the years. I personally won't buy one - yet- due to my regional and time period biasis (and money earmarked for it in 2019). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 C Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 A Coronation Scot coach set would still require quite a bit of new tooling and modifications to existing tooling if Hornby were produce the full nine coach train. Assuming they went for the blue 1937 set, they already have the BTK and FK in their super detailed Stanier range. Both would require new roof tooling though to create the distinctive forced air ventilation cowling. Most of the rest of the train ran on 57' chassis which they already have, but they would need to tool up above the solebar for the RTOs and BFK. The two RK Kitchen Cars ran on 50' chassis which they have from the BG, but this would need shallower truss rods and gas tanks for starters. Totally new tooling (other than bogies) would be needed for the 65' RFO. The 1937 set used modified standard service coaches, so tooling costs could be spread over some ordinary Crimson Lake versions, but would they sell in sufficient quantities? It's possible to pick up used examples of the super detailed Staniers very reasonably now. If some quick and easy cash for Hornby is the imperative, would this be the best way to achieve it? I have the donor coaches, Comet kit, sides and sundry fittings in stock ready to make up a 9 coach train so of course they're bound to announce one! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndg910 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 I wonder if we are forgetting the artwork for the 2018 catalogue. Lord Nelson with Night Ferry coaches. With Hornby on a cost saving spree they can justifiably reuse the artwork and say the cover shows our new 2019 products and the shareholders will be happy there are reduced costs in catalogue production. Just a thought as my Jouef NF coaches are on the list for an upgrade at some point as they are a bit low being HO gauge. Fortunately no one notices as they run under cover of darkness!!!! That probably means I need to purchase replacements to tease out the announcement as always seem to inevitably happen. In the meantime am looking forward to Monday’s announcement. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 I wonder if we are forgetting the artwork for the 2018 catalogue. Lord Nelson with Night Ferry coaches. With Hornby on a cost saving spree they can justifiably reuse the artwork and say the cover shows our new 2019 products and the shareholders will be happy there are reduced costs in catalogue production. Just a thought as my Jouef NF coaches are on the list for an upgrade at some point as they are a bit low being HO gauge. Fortunately no one notices as they run under cover of darkness!!!! That probably means I need to purchase replacements to tease out the announcement as always seem to inevitably happen. In the meantime am looking forward to Monday’s announcement. LOL!! So what exactly do you think will save them money by re-using art work??? That post makes Hornby look quite cheap to be honest. They don't need to have an artist to paint something. These days it's so easy to take a picture of a model and simply apply a filter to it. Hornby also have a very talented team of artists/digital artists who can do work for them which they're anyway paid to do when creating artwork for models. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted January 4, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2019 LOL!! So what exactly do you think will save them money by re-using art work??? That post makes Hornby look quite cheap to be honest. They don't need to have an artist to paint something. These days it's so easy to take a picture of a model and simply apply a filter to it. Hornby also have a very talented team of artists/digital artists who can do work for them which they're anyway paid to do when creating artwork for models. Ah, but back in the days of Triang-Hornby, they got Terence Cuneo to portray the latest 'must haves'. Modern digitry is all very well, but the mouse..... Harthur Kneegus. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 ...............If you want high quality panelled Gresleys, you're probably just as well off buying the completed coach! judging by comments elsewhere on RMWeb, it wouldn't be from Hornby. Just sayin' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy2305 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 It's worth remembering that the LNER built five streamliner sets: One for The Silver Jubilee, two for The Coronation, one for The West Riding Limited and a spare set (which was essentially another Coronation/West Riding set without the lettering). The spare coaches, if nothing else, allow someone to purchase just one or two units and run a representative streamliner for those who do not have the space to run full length trains. Equally, post war the sets were split up and the units could be found in various services; initially in their post war colours and later in BR liveries. Heck, one even made it to Yarmouth! There is certainly a lot of scope for such coaches should Hornby commit to making them... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 (edited) Ah, but back in the days of Triang-Hornby, they got Terence Cuneo to portray the latest 'must haves'. Modern digitry is all very well, but the mouse..... Harthur Kneegus. But Cuneos most dynamic cover was that of "The Condor" express parcels service, and Triang-Hornby never did a MetroVic Type 2 (Class 28), though Hornby Dublo did, and it was one of their least popular locos.... Some of his meeces were also difficult to spot. Perhaps in composing the catalogue cover, Triang-Hornby sliced the mouse off? Edited January 4, 2019 by Hroth 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted January 4, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 4, 2019 But Cuneos most dynamic cover was that of "The Condor" express parcels service, and Triang-Hornby never did a MetroVic Type 2 (Class 28), though Hornby Dublo did, and it was one of their least popular locos.... Triang Hornby 1972 18th ed.jpg Some of his meeces were also difficult to spot. Perhaps in composing the catalogue cover, Triang-Hornby sliced the mouse off? Pedantic mode on , but hopefully to solve sleepless nights for folk who failed to find the mouse since 1972 its on the very bottom sleeper on the right hand side , jumping out of the way of the Condor . Not easy to see, helped by the fact the answer was on page 12 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 .................. the LNER built five streamliner sets.................................................................... Heck, one even made it to Yarmouth! ........................ Was that via the Isle of Widget ferry or the tunnel they never got round to building ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chris116 Posted January 4, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 4, 2019 Was that via the Isle of Widget ferry or the tunnel they never got round to building ? The 'other' Yarmouth, the one that thinks it is 'Great'! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor7598 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Having an RTR LNER steamliner set of coaches, may not be as far fetched as it seems. Although the LNER's streamline trains only had a short time in service, in their striking liveries, the coaches lasted well into BR days, albeit split up and in general service, and thus aquired two BR liveries. The fact that Hornby have had high quality A4's ( apart from the front bogie arrangement ) in all liveries, for years,it might make sense to go the whole way and produce at least one set to try out the market. And finally put those horrible ' Silver Jubilee ' railroad LMS coaches in the bin. I would certainly fork out for a set, whichever train was chosen. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndg910 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 (edited) LOL!! So what exactly do you think will save them money by re-using art work??? That post makes Hornby look quite cheap to be honest. They don't need to have an artist to paint something. These days it's so easy to take a picture of a model and simply apply a filter to it. Hornby also have a very talented team of artists/digital artists who can do work for them which they're anyway paid to do when creating artwork for models. I’ll be polite and say nought but ‘cheap’ was unnecessary. I was making a point about Night Ferry coaches. Edited January 4, 2019 by ndg910 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 I’ll be polite and say nought but ‘cheap’ was unnecessary. I was making a point about Night Ferry coaches. They're never going to re-use artwork. If the Night Ferry coaches were the highlight of the 2019 range they'll make sure they highlight it on the cover. The 2018 catalogue cover doesn't highlight the coaches in any way. And once again....no, Hornby will not be re-using artwork for a cover. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MrTea Posted January 4, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 4, 2019 Having an RTR LNER steamliner set of coaches, may not be as far fetched as it seems. Although the LNER's streamline trains only had a short time in service, in their striking liveries, the coaches lasted well into BR days, albeit split up and in general service, and thus aquired two BR liveries. The fact that Hornby have had high quality A4's ( apart from the front bogie arrangement ) in all liveries, for years,it might make sense to go the whole way and produce at least one set to try out the market. And finally put those horrible ' Silver Jubilee ' railroad LMS coaches in the bin. I would certainly fork out for a set, whichever train was chosen. A precedent has been set for offering packs of coaches albeit not in 00 gauge or UK outline. Kato do successful ‘book sets’ of carriages for US, European and Japanese trains - both loco hauled stock and powered units. Their Southern Pacific Daylight sets with matching streamlined locos are particularly nice. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted January 4, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 4, 2019 They're never going to re-use artwork. If the Night Ferry coaches were the highlight of the 2019 range they'll make sure they highlight it on the cover. The 2018 catalogue cover doesn't highlight the coaches in any way. And once again....no, Hornby will not be re-using artwork for a cover. They reuse artwork all the time . The back of the catalogue contains stations track etc seldom changes. The latest track plans book has images on P30 to do with flexible track I can trace back to the late 70s . Other pages eg 10-11 have pictures of a layout from at least 2 track plans books before. I hope we get something a bit more exciting this time , catalogue wise. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr chapman Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 (edited) Edit: wrong thread Edited January 4, 2019 by Mr chapman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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