Hornby 2019 Speculation

[Dunsignalling]

...or if you consider that the clues could relate to a couple of models, possibly coupled with the idea that someone at Hornby has been looking back nostalgically into their back-catalogue (with half an eye to previous best-sellers)

 

A retooled Princess to appeal to those who started with a Triang model?

 

A reworked A3 Flying Scotsman for those of us who started with a train set in the 1970s or early 80s?

 

A completely new Stephenson’s Rocket in 00 to make the most of new advances in motor technology?

 

The last one would certainly be a surprise, it’s never featured prominently on wish list polls that I’m aware of BUT it has iconic status worldwide AND the red box guys have previous history in both small and large scales.

 

The only problem with the Rocket in the 2019 range is they'd be 10 years too early for the bi-centenary in 2029!

DSC_4190.jpg

Although I'm primarily interested in 4mm scale, I have the odd dabble with 7mm and would be rather more inclined to buy such a small loco as Rocket in that scale.

 

John

[Karl]

I bet Hornby are planning a West Highland line scenario during BR steam days ... they've already produced a B1, Black 5, K1, Clan (used once on a special) and now a J36.

 

They could announce the beavertail observation car in original and rebuilt versions, a K4 this year, and in 2020, an NBR Glen class loco.

This one has got me thinking, Hornby have a history for marking anniversaries. Well 2019 is the 125th anniversary of the west highland railway and 25 years since K1 62005 and K4 61994 ran specials marking the west Highlands centenary. On the occasion both were in LNER apple green (62005 never was green in service I know). But with that and 61994 being retired now along with 60009 the K4 could be a goer with a 2005 and 3442 in a lner green set, a 60009 and 61994 set and then 2 other k4s in BR black, one early and one late. So that would give Hornby 2 special sets to sell both with popular liveries and named green engines plus 2 Scottish engines to compliment the j36. I could see the K4 being a strong contender.

Edited January 3, 2019 by Karl

[Pandora]

LBSCR Gladstone  is a simple locomotive in outline. Therefore fairly easy on the toolshop budget. An attractive locomotive too.  I think Gladstone  is a good prospect for the announcement  next week

[Porcy Mane]

If we're going with this yellow theme then the real surprise would be something from the M&GN! (I can dream, right?)

 

Nah! Quick win follow up to the Pecket, Shotton Collierys Yellow Peril, Hawthorn-Leslie 3513, "Stagshaw". Now having a well deserved rest at Tanfield.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/98444-no-place/page-2&do=findComment&comment=1875852

 

P

[melmerby]

Rocket?

 

Complete with some suitable track:

 

Keith

 

EDIT I like the stub pointwork

Edited January 3, 2019 by melmerby

[newbryford]

The subject of the catalogue cover has a lot of yellow on it

 

but somehow I don't think it's the Jones Goods..........

 

Not guilty.............

[MGR Hooper!]

Apart from the obvious leaks (which was a mistake, now thankfully removed) has there been any clues or blurred out artwork for the Hornby magazine??

[Islesy]

Apart from the obvious leaks (which was a mistake, now thankfully removed) has there been any clues or blurred out artwork for the Hornby magazine??

No there hasn’t MGR - and it’s definitely not yellow!

[coronach]

How about Hornby expanding into plastic coach kits. Dapol have done this with some very basic LMS coaches. There might be a demand for some high quality plastic mouldings for panelled stock eg Gresleys

[Legend]

How about Hornby expanding into plastic coach kits. Dapol have done this with some very basic LMS coaches. There might be a demand for some high quality plastic mouldings for panelled stock eg Gresleys

I’ve always hoped for some tie up between Airfix and Hornby . Easy kits for beginners . But I think the reality is there’s not as much money to be made in supplying kits compared to the completed item. Also consider that the kits would eat into sales of completed coaches .

 

As big impressive loco subjects are drying up , I do wonder if there is more scope in coaches . A Coronation rake is a pretty obvious one for Hornby . Bachmann led the way in forcing prices of coaches up, first with their Inspection Saloon , then when folk bought that , the £69 Autocoaches, Birdcages . And now high spec and cost Mk2fs . People have bought them , so there appears to be a market out there.

Edited January 4, 2019 by Legend

[Dunsignalling]

How about Hornby expanding into plastic coach kits. Dapol have done this with some very basic LMS coaches. There might be a demand for some high quality plastic mouldings for panelled stock eg Gresleys

Dapol didn't expand into coach kits, theirs are old Airfix ones from the 1970s, which will have recovered their tooling costs several times over by now, hence their cheapness. 

 

Tooling up kits from scratch now, especially panelled ones (the Airfix/Dapol ones are all flush-sided) would struggle to come in even 20% cheaper than complete coaches. 

 

R-t-r manufacturers generally avoid anything which takes the quality of the finished model out of their hands - badly done ones for sale on the used market might be confused with factory-built equivalents, doing their reputation no good at all.

 

The Dapol ones are pre-finished and just clip together, so there's not much to go wrong.

 

John

[Robin Brasher]

I’ve always hoped for some tie up between Airfix and Hornby . Easy kits for beginners . But I think the reality is there’s not as much money to be made in supplying kits compared to the completed item. Also consider that the kits would eat into sales of completed coaches .

 

As big impressive loco subjects are drying up , I do wonder if there is more scope in coaches . A Coronation rake is a pretty obvious one for Hornby . Bachmann led the way in forcing prices of coaches up, first with their Inspection Saloon , then when folk bought that , the £69 Autocoaches, Birdcages . And now high spec and cost Mk2fs . People have bought them , so there appears to be a market out there.

Not sure people like paying high prices for coaches. Inspection Saloons and Birdcages were in Hattons Sale of the Century and I have not replaced my £1.50 Airfix Autocoach with a £69 Bachmann one.

 

Despite this A4 Pacifics attract modellers from other regions so a Coronation rake should sell well. Golden Age already make Coronation coaches but they are heavy and very expensive.

[Dunsignalling]

I’ve always hoped for some tie up between Airfix and Hornby . Easy kits for beginners . But I think the reality is there’s not as much money to be made in supplying kits compared to the completed item. Also consider that the kits would eat into sales of completed coaches .

 

As big impressive loco subjects are drying up , I do wonder if there is more scope in coaches . A Coronation rake is a pretty obvious one for Hornby . Bachmann led the way in forcing prices of coaches up, first with their Inspection Saloon , then when folk bought that , the £69 Autocoaches, Birdcages . And now high spec and cost Mk2fs . People have bought them , so there appears to be a market out there.

I think it's a logical progression, if one has a premium loco, the natural tendency is to want stock of comparable quality for it to pull.

 

Single prototypes like the Bachmann Inspection Saloon and Auto-trailer (and the Rails Dynamometer car) will inevitably be more expensive than average because there are very few components (other than bogies) that can be used in a wider range of coaches, thereby creating economies of scale. 

 

That said, there seems to be a clear price premium of at least £10 for Bachmann coaches over Hornby ones of comparable quality/type. (e.g. Birdcages over LSWR rebuilds).

 

I would greatly welcome (for instance) Hornby further exploiting components by producing a Bulleid 59' 3-set based on their existing Maunsell underframes. 

 

Short self-contained sets like these and the Birdcages allow the space-starved among us to run authentic complete trains, that come in at or under the price of a biggish loco.  Such packs draw much more attention in shop displays than rows of boxes containing single coaches. I thought Bachmann rather missed a trick by not offering the Birdcages as an attractively presented sleeved set, given that the prototypes always ran formed that way. Hornby also seem to have slipped by issuing the latest iteration of their "Somerset & Dorset" 3-set as separate items.

 

John

[Robin Brasher]

I think it's a logical progression, if one has a premium loco, the natural tendency is to want stock of comparable quality for it to pull.

 

Single prototypes like the Bachmann Inspection Saloon and Auto-trailer (and the Rails Dynamometer car) will inevitably be more expensive than average because there are very few components (other than bogies) that can be used in a wider range of coaches, thereby creating economies of scale. 

 

That said, there seems to be a clear price premium of at least £10 for Bachmann coaches over Hornby ones of comparable quality/type. (e.g. Birdcages over LSWR rebuilds).

 

I would greatly welcome (for instance) Hornby further exploiting components by producing a Bulleid 59' 3-set based on their existing Maunsell underframes. 

 

Short self-contained sets like these and the Birdcages allow the space-starved among us to run authentic complete trains, that come in at or under the price of a biggish loco.  Such packs draw much more attention in shop displays than rows of boxes containing single coaches. I thought Bachmann rather missed a trick by not offering the Birdcages as an attractively presented sleeved set, given that the prototypes always ran formed that way. Hornby also seem to have slipped by issuing the latest iteration of their "Somerset & Dorset" 3-set as separate items.

 

John

Graham Farish are going to sell their Birdcage sets in packs of three.

[Hroth]

A tad over three more days to go!

 

Isn't this FUN?

[Robin Brasher]

How about Hornby expanding into plastic coach kits. Dapol have done this with some very basic LMS coaches. There might be a demand for some high quality plastic mouldings for panelled stock eg Gresleys

Kitmaster made some wonderful Mk1 coach kits that forced Tri-ang and Hornby Dublo to improve their models. It took a lot of skill to make them to a high standard and Peco provided some coach interiors which are better than those in the present models. Unfortunately the tools for the Kitmaster Mk1 coaches were destroyed in Dapol's fire.

 

When Simon Kohler did a talk for the Wimborne Railway Society we asked him about making locomotives without names and numbers. Tri-ang Hornby did this with the malachite green Battle of Britain locomotive and several others. Simon said that if you saw the mess people made of putting names and numbers on locomotives on second hand stalls you will know why Hornby no longer do this.

 

I think that Hornby is a lot better at assembling coaches than most of us are.

[Dunsignalling]

Not sure people like paying high prices for coaches. Inspection Saloons and Birdcages were in Hattons Sale of the Century and I have not replaced my £1.50 Airfix Autocoach with a £69 Bachmann one.

 

Despite this A4 Pacifics attract modellers from other regions so a Coronation rake should sell well. Golden Age already make Coronation coaches but they are heavy and very expensive.

I think there is a significant proportion of potential purchasers who are only really interested in locos, and regard anything hung on the back of them as little more than mobile scenery.

 

Their choice, but running basic, unimproved 1970s coaches behind 21st century super-detail locomotives inevitably defines their layouts, however elaborate, as "train sets"  rather than "model railways".

 

Personally, I'm overjoyed that we are now offered decent coaches r-t-r. With over 150 locos, I've been, and remain, quite willing to slow down on buying more to finance a quality coach fleet.

 

There's also a big difference between buying a Bachmann autocoach at £69 (though I only paid £39 for my second one), which, plus loco, forms a complete train and splashing out for an express rake with nine or ten coaches, all slightly different, each at a similar price point.  

 

As things are, were Bachmann or Hornby to produce a complete Coronation set to current standards (which they'd have to - a premium train deserves premium models), we'd be looking at a price tag well north of £500. 

 

John

Edited January 4, 2019 by Dunsignalling

[Dunsignalling]

 

 

I think that Hornby is a lot better at assembling coaches than most of us are.

Amen to that....

[MGR Hooper!]

No there hasn’t MGR - and it’s definitely not yellow!

Thanks Paul! Was wondering what people are talking about because all the blurred images out now are the 2018 one.

 

Cheers!

[Robin Brasher]

I think there is a significant proportion of potential purchasers who are only really interested in locos, and regard anything hung on the back of them as little more than mobile scenery.

 

Their choice, but running basic, unimproved 1970s coaches behind 21st century super-detail locomotives inevitably defines their layouts, however elaborate, as "train sets"  rather than "model railways".

 

Personally, I'm overjoyed that we are now offered decent coaches r-t-r. With over 150 locos, I've been, and remain, quite willing to slow down on buying more to finance a quality coach fleet.

 

There's also a big difference between buying a Bachmann autocoach at £69 (though I only paid £39 for my second one), which, plus loco, forms a complete train and splashing out for an express rake with nine or ten coaches, all slightly different, each at a similar price point.  

 

As things are, were Bachmann or Hornby to produce a complete Coronation set to current standards (which they'd have to - a premium train deserves premium models), we'd be looking at a price tag well north of £500. 

 

John

Looks like the Golden Age Coronation set costs well north of £500: they are charging between £250 and £350 per coach plus VAT and delivery. A Hornby set for around £500 will seem like a bargain in comparison. The Bachmann Blue Pullman sets are now over £400 and have sold quite well and Hattons have not offered big discounts for these in their sale of the century so people are prepared to pay for a popular high quality train. Considering the popularity of the LNER A4 Pacifics I should think people would like a train to run them with.

[The Johnster]

How about Hornby expanding into plastic coach kits. Dapol have done this with some very basic LMS coaches. There might be a demand for some high quality plastic mouldings for panelled stock eg Gresleys

 

Hornby have visited this idea before in the Triang CKD days back in the 60s, with coaches as well as some locos, stating in the catalogue blurb that savings were to be had because even then the cost of assembly was considerable.  But the coaches were different in those days, with roofs and sides as separate pieces, so they were more adaptable to the kit concept; modern ones have the sides and roof in one piece, so there is less assembly to do and hence less saving in doing it, rendering the idea a bit pointless.

 

If you want high quality panelled Gresleys, you're probably just as well off buying the completed coach!

[Hroth]

Hornby have visited this idea before in the Triang CKD days back in the 60s, with coaches as well as some locos, stating in the catalogue blurb that savings were to be had because even then the cost of assembly was considerable.  But the coaches were different in those days, with roofs and sides as separate pieces, so they were more adaptable to the kit concept; modern ones have the sides and roof in one piece, so there is less assembly to do and hence less saving in doing it, rendering the idea a bit pointless.

 

If you want high quality panelled Gresleys, you're probably just as well off buying the completed coach!

 

CKD was a dodge to get around Purchase Tax, rather than removing the added cost of assembly.

[Clearwater]

Looks like the Golden Age Coronation set costs well north of £500: they are charging between £250 and £350 per coach plus VAT and delivery. A Hornby set for around £500 will seem like a bargain in comparison. The Bachmann Blue Pullman sets are now over £400 and have sold quite well and Hattons have not offered big discounts for these in their sale of the century so people are prepared to pay for a popular high quality train. Considering the popularity of the LNER A4 Pacifics I should think people would like a train to run them with.

A full LNeR coronation set from Goldenage would be at least c£3k if available...MARC models suggests £250/coach for a silver jubilee so £1750-2000.

 

If Hornby can produce single coaches at the £45 rrp mark (eg the Maunsell restaurant car), then they should be able to achieve a premium price for either a Coronation Scot/Coronation/Silver Jubillee set priced at say £75/coach but under a total rrp of £750 and make more profit.

 

David

[Dunsignalling]

Looks like the Golden Age Coronation set costs well north of £500: they are charging between £250 and £350 per coach plus VAT and delivery. A Hornby set for around £500 will seem like a bargain in comparison. The Bachmann Blue Pullman sets are now over £400 and have sold quite well and Hattons have not offered big discounts for these in their sale of the century so people are prepared to pay for a popular high quality train. Considering the popularity of the LNER A4 Pacifics I should think people would like a train to run them with.

So over two grand, then you'll need one of their A4s to pull it, a Hornby one won't look at such a load. Mind you, how many of us have room to run ten coach trains at home?

 

John

[Clearwater]

So over two grand, then you'll need one of their A4s to pull it, a Hornby one won't look at such a load. Mind you, how many of us have room to run ten coach trains at home?

 

John

Not many have that space but more aspire to have the space and will buy on the assumption that “one day” they will and they don’t want to miss out on the full set whilst available...